#290 How to improve your emotional intelligence and manage your emotions, with Robin Hills.

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION

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Please note that while an effort is made to provide an accurate transcription, errors and omissions may be present. No part of this transcription can be referenced or reproduced without permission.

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Agi Keramidas  0:06  
You are listening to personal development mastery podcast providing those with the desire to grow with the simple, consistent actions needed to master personal development and create the life they yearn for. I'm your host Agi Keramidas. A few years ago, I found myself unfulfilled and unmotivated like I had lost my sense of purpose and my life was merely passing by. Since then, I've been on a continuous journey of personal development that has transformed every aspect of my life. Now, my mission is to inspire you to grow, stand out and take action towards a purposeful and fulfilling life. In this podcast, I invite myself inside the minds of remarkable entrepreneurs, authors, thought leaders, spiritual teachers, people who share the journey milestones and learnings for you to be inspired to grow. In this episode, you will find practical action points that you can implement right now. So make sure you follow the podcast to get them as soon as they are released. Today's episode I am delighted to be joined by Robin hills. Robin, you specialise in educational training, coaching and personal development focused around emotional intelligence, positive psychology and neuroscience. You are the author of two books, and you have delivered keynote speeches at conferences around the world, including at Harvard University, you're passionate about teaching how to build resilience, increased self awareness and emotional intelligence. Robin, welcome to the show. It's such a pleasure to speak with you today.

Robin Hills  1:48  
Okay, it's a pleasure to be on your show. Thank you for having me on here.

Agi Keramidas  1:53  
I'm very much looking forward for the conversation. And we're going to discuss about emotional intelligence and some aspects of it, which I believe it's of great use and great value to all of us. Before we go there, I would like to ask you to give us a little bit of background, what I usually ask my guests is, during the journey, was there some really major turning point or milestone that really changed things for you into becoming who you are?

Robin Hills  2:30  
Well, I think we're all on a path through life. And we learn as we go along. I don't like the word journey that everybody seems to be using and bending around. But it's a useful metaphor. And I think that there are various points along the road along the pathway where we do get some level of transformation by things that happened. If I look specifically the area of emotional intelligence. And what drove me along that path, is that for many, many years, I was working in London, and I was selling to doctors in a variety of different scenarios, and surgeries or in hospitals. And I found that some doctors were very, very willing to engage very friendly, very open, very much, keen to have a good discussion to learn and to find out more. And some doctors were extremely negative, close minded, didn't want to know, because I worked for the pharmaceutical industry, they had certain prejudices and assumptions that they forced upon me because that was the way in which their thinking took them. And I didn't understand the difference between the two groups of people. Well, there were more than two groups of people but just to put them on a, a black and white, a good and bad a positive and negative scale, so that we can understand these differences. And I found that some doctors particularly junior doctors would rotate around various hospitals. Some of them got very, very stressed and had no time for me whatsoever. And some of them again, were able to relax and to take life as it happened and take the tasks as it happened. And then they would rotate into a role where there had been a stressed doctor, and these this doctor did not change their or these doctors did not change their attitude at all. There was Oh, very relaxed, they still had time for me. And I didn't know what what was happening here. Because the role was the same, the function of the role was the same, the environment, the situation was the same. It was something to do with the attitude of the doctor. And it was in the mid 90s, where I had moved away from medical selling. As I read an article in the Saturday newspaper about emotional intelligence, Daniel Goldman had just published his books, and it was a book review. And I read this book preview, and I thought, this is the answer to that question that I've been seeking. Why do people react in different ways? How do people react to their situation, in different ways from other people, it was down to the way in which they were managing their emotions, it was down to their emotional intelligence. So it was at that point, I thought, Here is something that I need to study, I need to understand I need to get more knowledge about and I need to work with. So that for me, it was a defining turning point.

Agi Keramidas  6:17  
Thank you for sharing. That's a very, as another story I, I can imagine very well, what you said about meeting some people who were open and could give you their time with a or make time to seek and be open and others who because of stress. And I you mentioned a phrase called managing your emotions. And I will, I think this is really what I would like to discuss in this conversation or find ways of doing that better. If I were to ask, because emotional intelligence is a great term, but how would you define it to someone listening to us? And now and they're not exactly they have an idea of what it is, but how would you explain it? To them? What exactly is emotional intelligence?

Robin Hills  7:16  
Oh, okay. What a great question. And thank you for asking, because the this term emotional intelligence is being bandied around quite liberally, and a lot of people to use it. And a lot of people think that they understand what it is, but may not necessarily have a full understanding of it. I'm still learning. But to put it into a very nice summary statements that people can take away. Emotional Intelligence is about being smart with your feelings. It's about combining the your thinking with your feelings, in order to make good quality decisions and build up authentic relationships. That's great. And

Agi Keramidas  8:05  
I think what you said, Being smart with your feelings, that's a great way to express it. My, the thing that came to mind immediately when you said that is when you said about combining your thinking and your, your feelings, that feelings when they come in, when they are very intense shows they come in, find that I'm prepared for them. So we say they have this tendency to override all our thinking and everything else, and the kind of rules, our behaviours and our thoughts and our actions. That's what came to mind. So correct me if I'm wrong there that they have emotions have very little power over our thoughts.

Robin Hills  8:56  
They can and I think we've just got to be aware of that. And we've got to recognise when that is happening. There was a scenario that happened to me years ago, it is, these sorts of things happen from time to time, where I get intensely angry with some thing or some body and I, I do tend to bottle it up and I'm well aware of this anger and if you so intense, that I don't have a theory, I know that I should be using my thinking to manage my emotions and and I do it with people that I do not have the issue with. But to actually bottle it up and to actually say right, I can actually control this emotion. I can't. And the reason why I can't is as you rightly say that the emotion The feeling is so intense. It overrides everything. It defines my thinking. It defines my behaviour. It defines my actions, but what I've got to do is to stop myself from Taking that emotion out on people that don't people that do not deserve the behaviour that that emotion is driving me. To put it into some level of context. I have two daughters, they've grown up and they've left home now. But at the time, they were teenagers, or they were even younger. And there were times when things were happening to me and around me at work. So it was causing this intensive emotion. And I had to stop myself from taking it out of my daughters and stop myself from taking it out on my wife, we have an expression here in the United Kingdom kick the cat syndrome, the boss kicks you, so you go home and you kick the cat, because that's the only thing that you can take your emotions out on. So I had to recognise that when I was engaging with my daughters, ESI was certainly aware, things were were very raw. And some of their behaviour may then provoke a reaction, but I actually had to make sure that I stopped myself from overreacting in those circumstances, when they were doing things that I didn't like or disapproved of. So, this emotional intelligence is not an easy construct to work with. And I think that's an important thing to stress. Here I am working in the field of emotional intelligence. Am I emotionally intelligent? If I answer yes, it's rather arrogant and self conceited and suggests there's no room for improvement? If I answer no, then what am I doing working in the field of emotional intelligence? The answer lies somewhere in between. Look, it's it's work in progress, I'm still learning and I'm getting better at it. As I get older, and I get more mature, but I've still got a long way to go. I'm human like you are Aggie, I am a result of my emotions.

Agi Keramidas  12:16  
Exactly. And they really believe that the more one is able to handle their emotions, let alone master them. That's, that's really an amazing, very high aim with you, no one can aspire to have, but it's unlikely if they will actually master them. But regardless of mastering, you know, dealing with them in the best possible way with in a mature way, in a way that doesn't harm you, or your behaviour or, or the other. So it's one of the, I believe the most important elements and especially in personal development, since my podcast is about personal environment, I can think of very few more important aspects one can work on in their life and improve. And there are, there are a couple, two or three, let's say specific facets, or aspects of emotional intelligence that I would like to discuss with you. So we can maybe find some tools or some techniques, some things that one can do when they find themselves in a situation like this. And one of them is this, we already you already started discussing it. And when you give the example of with your daughter, she's that ability to control our impulses, especially when you know, they start to overwhelm or overtake us, the phrase that comes to mind or the image that comes to my mind is like a puppet being, you know, jerked around by the strings because the emotion comes up. And then you start to move like in accordance to that. So can you tell me a bit more about this particular aspect of you know, controlling our impulses and maybe give us some, something practical that one can do once they realise that they're heading down that path to bring them back to, you know, self control.

Robin Hills  14:28  
That may give you a very personal and six sample Aggie that I don't think a lot of your listeners will like to hear. But I think it's absolutely vitally important. Low levels of emotional intelligence occur because people have low levels of impulse control, and it's what you were talking about in terms of controlling your impulses. Yet I think a lot of people are not realising how low their emotional intelligence and their impulse control is. And the example that I will give you is, everybody seems to be surgically attached to their mobile device. And the minute it pings, it doesn't matter if they're in a very important in depth conversation, there's this urge this impulse to look at the phone. Now I am here with you, if my phone happens to go off, I will completely ignore it. Because I'm working in the present moment with my friend Aggie, and we are having a conversation. So that has to be the focus of my attention. And I, the number of times I've been training, or I've been in meetings with somebody, or I'm talking to somebody, and what goes on in their mobile phone is far more important than what I am saying or communicating with them. The number of times that happens is, you know, an infinite number of times it seems to happen all the time. And I can say to people at the beginning of the training or coaching session of facilitation session, notes, let's let's agree, whilst we're in the room, the mobile phone gets switched off. And the number of people that don't do it that can't do it. is amazing. They keep the phone on Oh, no, no, it's very important. I'm expecting a very important phone call. And then of course, they're flicking away on Facebook, when they should actually be doing a an activity and sharing their learning with other people in the group. Like I say, it seems to happen all the time. And it that is frightening, that is frightening.

Agi Keramidas  16:56  
That's in my opinion is also rude when you have someone in front of you're speaking to you and us looking at your your phone apart from you know, the vein pulse to look, but it's it's not the right thing. What Yeah, I understand what you say that it is it happens very much nowadays, with with the phones, is there any other maybe, because obviously, switching the phone off will certainly kill that impulse to look at it. But in terms of you know, some others when, let's say, an emotion arises, like, let's say anger, or I don't know, sadness, something like that, as an impulse, you know, that would drive you to do some behaviour that is not beneficial. Is there some kind of tool, some kind of technique, something practical that one can use to, you know, realise what's happening? I think that's what I'm trying to ask.

Robin Hills  18:06  
Yes, yes, I think we if we go back to our definition of emotional intelligence, being smart with our feelings, being smart with our emotions, when we are feeling the intensity of an emotion, what we should be doing is saying to ourselves, what is the data that I am being given here, around my environment that is causing me to feel the way that I'm feeling. Now, it's all very easy for me to sit here and the comfort of the space that we're talking in now Aggie and to say all these things in the intensity of them of the event, it can become very, very hard. But I think it's important to determine why you are feeling that emotion, if you're feeling angry. Why are you feeling angry, while you're feeling angry, because someone has transgressed one of your core values. And that usually is the reason why you are feeling angry. So the important thing is to determine what it is that you need to do, to utilise that anger, to right the wrong to have the discussion to have the debate to do what it is that you need to do to move yourself forward to make good quality decisions and to build relationships. If you're feeling sad. Why are you feeling sad? Often it's because you have lost something very dear to you. And there's something of real value. And it might be anything it could be. It could be a dear friend, a member of your family. Or it could be that you're going to be losing some time or you're going to be losing some money, what is driving this sadness? If you can answer that question, it will help you in terms of regulating and working with your emotions. And if I can give you another example, a very real example. Everybody experiences a degree of anxiety before they're about to go into a meeting, before they're going to be interviewed on a podcast with a GI. recognise that that emotion is there for a reason, it doesn't feel very pleasant. But the reason why we're experiencing that emotion is because we are preparing ourselves mentally and physically for something which will be a challenge for us, and to actually welcome that emotion, rather than to try it and fight it, I think is an important part of utilising anxiety in an emotionally intelligent way. And I heard a wonderful phrase years ago, somebody said that if you have butterflies in your stomach, what you ought to do is to learn to get those butterflies to fly in formation. And I think that's a wonderful phrase to sum up the way in which people should work with their anxiety.

Agi Keramidas  21:30  
It's a beautiful phrase and to learn what you said with butterflies and learning to use that energy that is created in the body especially this one, because the example you gave with you know, the butterflies or the tightness in the stomach, whenever able to transform that energy to your benefit because it is there already you can channel it into, you know, performing better or whatever it is that you are about to do.

Agi Keramidas  22:12  
I want to take a short break from this episode and quickly let you know about something I'm sure you will find useful. In the times that we live in. We are drowning in information but starving in wisdom. This podcast for example, you are listening to has almost 300 episodes, as you can imagine this wisdom in them, but who has the time to listen to 300 podcasts. My mission as a knowledge broker is to convert this vastness of knowledge and distil it into wisdom into implementable insights. So I have created a special free resource for you. I have chosen the top 10 podcast episodes that offer the greatest value in three main categories of life. First, the top 10 episodes about money mindset and abundance. Second, the top 10 episodes about health and wellness. And third, the top 10 episodes on mastering your personal development. This free book is a catalogue a curated index of those top 10 podcast episodes in each category that will offer you the greatest value and in the shortest time to get a book, go to personal development mastery podcast.com/talk 10 You will also find the link in the show notes. Alright, let's get back to the episode

Agi Keramidas  23:45  
I think it brings me nicely to something else I wanted to ask you about. And you know, when we have I will stick with me for a moment with this example you gave with butterflies in the stomach. That as a physical sensation is something very specific, we feel something in our belly or in that abdomen area which can be described as a tightness or other filler for butterflies as you said and so on. However there is that is one thing, which I believe it's quite objective. But there is another thing that I think is very subjective is how we interpret this sensation shows someone that has butterflies in the stomach. They might say oh I'm anxious. Another person might say that, you know, I'm terrified. Or someone else might say I'm, I'm excited and that's why I feel this is excitement. So I wanted to ask you about this, you know how we interpret or how we term the in our emotional state and you know the importance of it on what actually will happen with A given emotional state.

Robin Hills  25:02  
Oh, what a fascinating question there Aggie because the way in which I experience frustration, anger or annoyance, will be completely different from the way in which you experience it. Physiologically, we will be experiencing the same adrenaline surge, we will be having the same dilation around our body to a layer that led the blood to flow in an appropriate way, we will be tightening our muscles in a certain way for fight or flight. So physiologically, we will be experiencing the same effect of the emotion, what we need to do is to learn how to interpret it. And it doesn't matter whether you call it computer mouse, or whether you call it anger, or whether you call it sunshine on a wet day, it doesn't matter what you call it. It's your label, and you're learning how to work with that physical sensation, and what that physical sensation means for you. So in certain situations, I may say, Yes, I'm nervous. Whereas somebody might be saying, oh, yeah, well, what I've done is taken it and transformed it into energy, and excitement. And there's me thinking, I wish I could do that. I'm feeling nervous. So I think what you've got to do is to recognise subjectively, what is happening. Now, it depends on what academic paper you read, there's anything between 3020 7000 different emotions. And if we go to the absolute basic level, Paul Ekman, who is an anthropologist, and the psychologists identified seven emotions in humans. And these seven emotions are the ones that we've been talking about. anger, happiness, sadness, fear, surprise, and disgust and contempt. And if we look at those seven emotions, really as a kind of basic understanding around our emotions, we can then start to build up very various emotions, complex emotions, some lens of emotions, such as guilt, and shame and anticipation and love. And that's not even going into the area of some emotions that we just don't have words for. And there are some emotions that we don't have words for in the English language. But so which have words in other languages such as, show it and Freud, which is the German word for an emotion that we experience that somebody else's displeasure. So if somebody slips on a banana skin, we might find it quite funny. And I think a lot of children experience shows in Florida when they're watching cartoons on the television, because a lot of them, the mouse gets to come up with the cat. The children are actually enjoying that. And and I think that happens in a lot of films that we watch when the body gets their cut off and see yes, that's the emotion kicking in. And then there are other emotions that we just do not have labels for in any language. And I'll give you an example. When you go to the tip, and you throw something in the tip, you have that feeling that your house key so your car keys have got in there with it, they haven't. You come away with that feeling. There's no label for it. But that is a really interesting emotion. And I did that the weekend to the experience again. Yeah, why do I experience that emotion every time I put something into the skin?

Agi Keramidas  29:19  
That's an interesting one. Sometimes, since you're sharing that something that came up for me is when I'm about to leave the house and lock the door. I have the feeling I've forgotten something. Many times it's just you know, there is nothing that they have forgotten about. It just comes up pops in my mind. That's something that I have learned very well to ignore now because it is you know, it's a waste of time and I will come back to you said that. There are between three and 27,000 I think you said the motion something like that.

Robin Hills  29:56  
Yes. Like I say it depends what paper you read

Agi Keramidas  29:59  
is So there's no wonder in my mind that we were there aren't so many words to describe the emotion. So you gave examples already, but there are much fewer words to describe emotions. And I wanted to ask you, given this situation, have you not been able to express exactly what the emotion is? How important is that? So if I feel an emotion, and I have a can't even describe it, or express it, putting a word on it? How am I supposed to work with it? Is it just focusing on what physical? What I feel in my physiology?

Robin Hills  30:43  
Yes, I think that's, that's, that's the starter gear. But I think, more importantly, what you've got to do is to look outwardly and say, right, how is this driving my behaviour? And how is this acting impacting upon my outer world? The outer world of people, events and situations? Because if it's having a negative impact on those relationships, then I think you've got some hard work to do. But if it's actually boosting those relationships, then great, let's have more of it. And if it's neutral, again, there's some really interesting data there. What are you going to do with it? Does it importance? Should you actually be trying to identify this? Or should you actually be spending your time on something more important? So I think these are all interesting questions that we could or should be asking ourselves around our emotions.

Agi Keramidas  31:40  
Thank you. There's one more thing I wanted to ask about, you know, the words the actual language we use for the the motions, I remember reading some words that the more, let's say, expanded vocabulary you have about your emotions, and the more you can, you know, express what you feel in a more precise way, you know, not saying, Oh, I'm sad, because sadness has probably hundreds of different sub emotions that go there. But if we describe it only as sad, and not like melancholy or true, you know, are there there are so many solo. So basically, I wanted some of your thoughts about the importance of our emotional vocabulary and how this we can utilise, you know, to our benefit to improve emotional intelligence, if it plays a role in the end?

Robin Hills  32:41  
Well, I think it does. And this is an area that is continually being researched. And I think I've got to say that we are really at the cusp of finding out more around emotions. Let's take the example of sadness. It's my understanding that herniations people from Haiti don't have a word in their vocabulary for sadness. Now, does that mean to say that they don't experience sadness? This is an interesting area of research. I'm sure that they do, because it's a basic human emotion, and we will see sadness expressed on the face. So I think it goes part way of answering your question, what we've got to do is to learn to label our emotional states in an appropriate way for ourselves, and to have a better understanding of ourselves through the labels that we use. And if we can get the label as near as possible to what we think the emotion is, then at least we're striving in the right direction. And if it doesn't work, like that emotion, when we go to the skip, we could just label it as a Skippy emotion, or whatever. So that we know that we're going to experience that emotion when we perform that behaviour. So I think that this is this is all areas that we need to further think about, discuss debate, research, and find out more about as we work with this construct of emotional intelligence. So if I then take you to the area of what emotional intelligence is, it's a little bit more of a deeper level, but very simply, it's the inner world, the inner world, what goes on inside our heads, our body. So it's our physiology, and it's our psychologies having an awareness of that. So, an underpinning part of the emotional intelligence is self awareness. And there In the action and behaviour, part of what goes on inside our inner world is having that emotional understanding around emotional regulation, emotional management, emotional expression. So how am I going to be working with those emotions. So that happens in the, in the inner world. And then in the outer world, we would use the awareness part to be aware of other people through empathy. And we would use our action and behaviour by communicating with people using our social skills in an appropriate way. And by so doing, we can then learn to become more emotionally intelligent.

Agi Keramidas  35:42  
Thank you. I'm thinking over and over question now that I hope it's not going to sound very general. But let's say Well, based on what we have discussed so far, about emotional intelligence, obviously, it is such a vast topic, and we can't really go into much depth of all the things that I would like to find out. But based on what we have already discussed, if you were to give to the listener right now something out of all that that they can implement. So someone listening and says, So Robin, can you tell me one thing I can do tomorrow? As a step, you know, to improve my emotional intelligence? What What would you advise?

Robin Hills  36:28  
Well, can I go back to one of the examples that I use during our discussion, because when we are in the workplace, we will be challenged when we have to present a report to the board, when we have to present to a challenging clients, when we have to present at a conference. And what I would ask people to do is just to recognise the emotion that they're feeling prior to that around the butterflies in their stomach. And if it is anxiety, label it as such, anxiety is not a negative emotion. Anxiety is an emotion for a particular purpose. And the purpose is to prepare us for that meeting. So recognise those feelings of unpleasantness and get them to work for you rather than to try and deny them or to try and stop them from happening.

Agi Keramidas  37:26  
Thank you. That's, that's great. And it really it came through our believable conversation this recognising really paying, paying attention and understanding what is happening. Robin, where would you direct a listener who has enjoyed the conversation of and wants to find out more about your work and what you do?

Robin Hills  37:51  
Well, if you go to AI for change.com, Ai, number four change.com, you will be able to find out a lot of information around emotional intelligence, there's some free resources that you can sign up for. There's a free book on developing your emotional intelligence, there are podcasts that people can listen to my own podcast, the thought that counts, which gives a 10 minute little snippet of five tips around emotional intelligence. So there's a lot of resources there, please go along, have a look at it. Now. The other expression we have here in the United Kingdom, go fill your boots.

Agi Keramidas  38:34  
I will put all the links in the show notes that free book about developing your emotional intelligence I was I was telling you earlier, I read it as a preparation for the interview. And it's very useful. And I remember there were practical things there that one can take to improve or take steps towards improving them. Robin, I would like to ask you some quickfire questions as well to wrap this conversation up. And the first one I always ask that is what does personal development mean to you?

Robin Hills  39:11  
It means continually looking at developing myself learning and growing through every situation and enjoying every moment of it. I've still got a long way to go. I've still got a lot to learn emotional intelligence is a very in depth construct. I'm only scratching the surface

Agi Keramidas  39:28  
thing. We all have a lot of so many things to learn, by the way. You said in the beginning that you don't like the word journey to describe life and so can you explain to me why why is that?

Robin Hills  39:45  
I think it's one of these words that people use too frequently, without thinking about it. And there are lots of words And when you get more involved in emotional intelligence, you get to learn this that there are certain words and phrases that people will use without giving them any conscious thoughts at all. And what I'm trying to do is to help people to choose their words more effectively to have more impact. That's great. Thank

Agi Keramidas  40:23  
you for that. So they're the way I see the word journey in this context is like a life's adventure. So it journey with with that sense of adventure, but thank you for understand that it's been that word has been thrown around without really, someone thinking consciously what what it means.

Robin Hills  40:48  
Okay, that's a really great word. I do like that word adventure, because you can actually have a really good adventure, staying put, staying at a particular spot, or even going back along the pathway that you've come along to actually determine and learn more from what it is that you've experienced ference previously, whereas for me a journey is taking you from A to B, and I don't know where b is. So enjoying the adventure along the way, is part of, dare I say, life's journey?

Agi Keramidas  41:31  
Yeah. But now we've used it very consciously. So. And let me ask you one final hypothetical question. So let's say you could go back and meet your 18 year old self. What's one piece of advice you would give him?

Robin Hills  41:50  
One thing I would go along and say to him is, there's, there's a great future ahead of you. Just enjoy every moment of it. And Robin, you are incredibly naive.

Agi Keramidas  42:08  
Robin, I want to thank you very much for this conversation. I really enjoyed it. And I believe there is some very tremendous value that was shared shares about emotional intelligence and how one can really work with that and improve that very important aspect of their life. As I was saying earlier thing it would be, it would be difficult for me to find something more important than this. I think it is overarching over so many other things. I want to wish you all the very best with your mission with what with helping others really grow in that sense. And I will live I will leave it to you for last parting words.

Robin Hills  43:01  
Well, all I would like to do is to say to your listeners, go out there and be the best version that you can be of yourselves. recognise that you're human. Enjoy your humaneness, and go along there and enjoy your emotions.

Agi Keramidas  43:24  
Thank you for listening, and I hope you got valuable insights from today's episode. For your free ebook with the top 10 podcast episodes that offer the greatest value in three main categories of life. Go to personal development mastery podcast.com/top 10 Until next time, stand out don't fit in!