Career transitions rarely arrive neatly packaged. They often begin with uncertainty, discomfort, and a sense that progress is invisible. In this episode, Michelle Schafer joins Agi Keramidas to explore what really happens in that in-between phase, when the old role is behind you but the new one has not yet appeared.
Michelle brings a rare blend of empathy and experience to the conversation. A two-time restructuring survivor turned career coach, she has spent over 25 years across HR, learning, and community roles, and has supported nearly 1,000 professionals in finding work that genuinely suits them. Her core belief is simple but powerful: people thrive when their work gives them energy and aligns with what they believe.
The Seed That Grows Underground
One of the central metaphors in the episode is the idea of planted seeds. Michelle shares how the idea of becoming a coach was first planted long before she acted on it, through a casual comment from a friend. At the time, the timing was wrong. She loved her job and her work life balance. But when she was later restructured, that seed resurfaced.
This metaphor becomes a guiding principle for career transitions. Much like a seed in the ground, progress is often happening beneath the surface even when there is nothing visible yet. Conversations, applications, reflections, and courses all contribute to growth, even if there is no immediate result. Understanding this can help people stay grounded during periods that otherwise feel stagnant.
Living With Uncertainty Without Being Consumed by It
Uncertainty is one of the hardest aspects of career change. Michelle explains that many people struggle because they carry unspoken expectations about how long a transition should take. When reality does not match that timeline, anxiety and self doubt increase.
One important reframe she offers is this: the uncertainty is not permanent. This phase is not your forever place. Simply recognising that the discomfort has an endpoint can ease some of its emotional weight.
She also encourages people to acknowledge the full range of emotions involved. Fear, frustration, and overwhelm are common, but so are hope, possibility, and even excitement. Making space for the positive emotions, rather than focusing solely on the negative ones, can make the process more sustainable.
Do Not Do This Alone
Another recurring theme is the importance of community. Michelle is clear that career transitions are not meant to be navigated solo. Engaging your network, talking openly with trusted people, and asking for support can make a significant difference, both practically and emotionally.
At the same time, she stresses the importance of self care. When job searching, it is easy to become consumed by applications and research. Michelle encourages listeners to do at least one small thing each day that feeds their soul, whether that is a walk, a quiet coffee, or a few minutes of reflection. These moments do not remove uncertainty, but they help you cope with it.
Shifting From Fear to Possibility
When fear feels overwhelming, Michelle suggests a powerful question: what happens if I make no change at all? Staying in a misaligned role often comes with its own costs, including stress, burnout, and spillover into personal relationships. Reflecting honestly on the consequences of staying put can reconnect you with the reasons you started exploring change in the first place.
She also recommends a simple but effective practice: tracking daily wins. A win does not have to be landing a job. It might be updating your CV, reaching out to someone new, or gaining clarity about what you want. Writing these wins down creates visible proof that you are moving forward, even when progress feels slow.
Rebuilding Confidence Through Clarity and Strategy
Confidence often takes a hit during transitions, especially for those who have not looked for work in years. Michelle highlights how different the job market is today, with high competition and new technologies shaping recruitment. Feeling discouraged in this environment is understandable.
Her solution focuses on clarity and strategy. First, define a clear career target by reflecting on three areas: the work that genuinely gives you energy, the type of organisation where you can thrive, and your non negotiables at this stage of life. These reflections help you move from vague dissatisfaction to intentional direction.
Second, create a plan. Michelle likens career exploration to planning a holiday. You would not turn up without knowing where you are going or how you will get around. Similarly, an effective job search balances online applications with recruiter relationships and, most importantly, networking. This focused approach not only increases opportunities but also restores a sense of control.
A Reminder Worth Holding On To
As the conversation draws to a close, Michelle offers a message that resonates deeply: this is not your forever place. The discomfort, self doubt, and uncertainty will pass. With the right support, reflection, and strategy, it is possible to find work that energises you and aligns with your values.
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