#190 Dr John Demartini: how to cultivate an attitude of gratitude daily and how the gratitude effect can transform your life.

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION

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Please note, while an effort is made to provide an accurate transcription, errors and omissions may be present. No part of this transcription can be referenced or reproduced without permission.

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Agi Keramidas  0:02  
Welcome to the personal development mastery podcast. I am Agi Keramidas and my mission is to inspire you to grow, stand out and take action towards the next level of your life. I interview leaders, authors, successful entrepreneurs, spiritual teachers, exceptional people who will inspire you to improve your life. Tune in for two episodes each week, and make sure you subscribe to get them as soon as they are released.

Agi Keramidas  0:35  
In today's episode, my guest is Dr. John Demartini. Dr. Demartini is a world renowned specialist in human behaviour, a researcher, author and global educator. He has been a public speaker for nearly 50 years and he empowers people from all walks of life by sharing his knowledge on personal development and financial wellness. He has studied over 30,000 books across all academic disciplines, and he has synthesised and shares the wisdom of the ages, both on states and online. He was one of the featured experts in the book and documentary The Secret. And in the field of personal development, he has created numerous programmes, seminars and revolutionary techniques such as the Demartini method, and the Demartini value determination process. In our podcast conversation, we focused on the greatest virtues gratitude, and the gratitude effect. Dr. John Demartini, welcome to Personal Development mastery podcast, I'm honoured and grateful to have this conversation with you today.

Dr John Demartini  1:46  
Thank you for much for having me on. I appreciate it. I'm looking forward to it.

Agi Keramidas  1:51  
So am I!, I would like to focus this conversation today out of all the topics that we could discuss about, I'd like to focus on gratitude and the the gratitude effect. It's been said that gratitude is not only the greatest of virtues, but the parent of all the others. So I wanted to ask you, so when we talk about an attitude of gratitude, what exactly do we mean by that?

Dr John Demartini  2:24  
Well, I like to think of there being two forms of gratitude. One form of gratitude is, when things seem to support our values, and go easily along, we go, thank you, thank you, thank you, seems like it's working in flowing, and another form of gratitude when things are challenging us, and seemingly chaos. And we're able to then discover the hidden order, and a higher purpose, for the challenge, and able to be grateful for the hidden order inside that challenge. That one's a more deeply profound form of gratitude, sometimes called grace. And that was, that's when you're able to see the magnificence in the challenge. And actually still be grateful because now you see how it's serving. I always say that everything is on the way, not in a way where the things are supportive or challenging. They're helping us become masters, and authentic, and guiding us to something of our heart. So true gratitude is when you can see the hidden order in the apparent chaos. And a superficial gratitude is when seemingly things go our way. It's easy to do it under one, it's more depth and more empowering, when we can do it under the challenge.

Agi Keramidas  3:47  
Is it a perspective, it is a perspective of life, of course, the way that we take the time to appreciate the things and I will come back to what you said about the the being grateful of the challenging situations because that is the it's more powerful and more difficult, of course. But apart from a perspective of life of appreciation of these things, is it something else? Is it a vibration? Is it something that what I'm trying to get if possible is some kind of a definition of what what do we mean but by the attitude of gratitude, and I hope my question makes sense.

Dr John Demartini  4:35  
Again, there's two forms of gratitude. We have in our brain layers of the brain. And in the frontal cortex, we have the executive Centre, which is sometimes called the gratitude centre. And when we are able to see both sides of an event, we change and balance out our neuro chemistry We spontaneously have a yearning to under express our grace and gratitude for the way life is flowing. This form of gratitude is the one that brings homeostasis to our physiology, brings wellness and healing. The other form of gratitude is a bit of a dopamine rush, when things seem to be going easy, and we're, you know, things are getting us what we what supports our values. That's a gratitude of ease, you might say, that's in the amygdala, the amygdala is trying to avoid pain and seek pleasure. And the executive centre is embracing pain and pleasure in the pursuit of a purpose. So when we are basically going along, and things seem to be easy and supporting our values, we go thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, that has a different neural chemistry, than we're actually able to see the challenge and find the hidden meaning of it, and extract meaning out of our existence, and find the hidden order out of our apparent cas. And our neuro chemistry balances, and we bring wellness and physiological balance. That's when we're able to extract and see both sides. When we infatuate. With something, we're conscious of the upsides and unconscious of the downsides. When we resent something, we're conscious of the downsides and consciously upsides. When we really grateful and love something, we're conscious of both sides. And when we're conscious of both sides, we're poised and present, and purposeful, and patient and prioritised and objective. This is the truest one that brings the true healing. It's easy for anybody to when things seemingly go their way, and you get a dopamine rush, and you're getting carillons. And you start to feel okay, thank you, thank you, thank you, anybody can do that. But the master is the one who can embrace the pain in the pleasure together, and the support and challenge together the pairs of opposites, at the same time, and being mindful, and that you resonate with a higher level of grace. And that's the one that truly brings wellness and healing.

Agi Keramidas  7:10  
What do you think is the an obstacle one of the big obstacles for people experiencing gratitude when when their talents you said about feeling grateful things are seemingly going well. And even at that situation? I've seen people not feeling grateful even for when things are going well. So like there is a lack of this feeling of appreciation of gratitude, like they have been taking things for granted. So are there specific obstacles? Do you think there is something that prevents us from going and feeling this gratitude?

Dr John Demartini  7:53  
Anytime we have an expectation of others, or ourselves, or the world around us, are the objects around us to be one sided, to be you know, only one sided, not both sided, positive, without negative nice without being kind without cruel? Anytime we have an expectation of one sidedness, we set ourselves up for an unrealistic expectation that's going to bring a letdown, and we're going to be ungrateful. Anytime we expect others to live in our values, or expect us to live in somebody else's values, or expect the world to live in our values, or expect mechanical objects to live in our values, we have an unrealistic expectation, and we're going to be ungrateful. So it's about recalibrating our expectations to match what's actually there. Depression is a comparison of your current reality to a fantasy about how it's supposed to be. And anytime we have an unrealistic expectation, or delusion or fantasy of life being anything other than it is we're going to be ungrateful. We're going to practice the habit of being ungrateful. And we're not going to appreciate what daily life has to offer. But if we take the time to set realistic expectations, that are truly valuable to us, and to understand and respect others, what's valuable to them, and have a more objective view on life. Expectations are more grounded, and we have more gratitude, gratefulness in our life. We also can make a habit out of it. I write down every single day, every day of my life for decades. What I was grateful for that day, what I had the opportunity to do, I just 30 volumes of gratitude. Some volumes are 900 pages. So we're talking about 10s of 1000s of pages of gratitude that I've accumulated over the last 49 years. So it's a habit of taking the time reflecting, setting realistic expectations, and having expectations match reality instead of fantasies that allow you to have an ongoing practice. For the magnificence that life has to offer.

Agi Keramidas  10:04  
Thank you. And I will just reiterate, in my own words, what you said, it's important to recalibrate the expectations that we have. So rather than having myristic expectations that we will be disappointed about. Then you also mentioned that it's very important that it's a habit that can be built. Like other things, and you mentioned your, your gratitude journal. And actually, I wanted to discuss a few ways that one can implement it or methods a few ways to get into that habit, or enhance that habit of cultivating the attitude of gratitude. So, suppose, let's start with this gratitude journal, which you said that for decades now you write every day, what you have been grateful for the day that was that just 10? That is not how you do it at the end of the day, or do you do it throughout the day?

Dr John Demartini  11:08  
I may do some throughout the day, I may do it only at the end of the day. Okay. Whenever I have a moment I add to it. Would you like me to show it? I don't know if I can show a sample of it.

Agi Keramidas  11:21  
With that. I would love to Yes, thank you. Okay, I'll

Dr John Demartini  11:25  
see if I can pull it up real quick. And I would

Agi Keramidas  11:27  
also since you're very kind to share, I would also ask you to share one of the statements that you have there so we can understand how you phrase it.

Dr John Demartini  11:38  
Okay, so here is a sample. I had the opportunity to be requested to write a foreword on a new book, I had the opportunity to compose another Florida another book yesterday, I had the opportunity to request for a real estate investment in about a podcast and I'm getting ready to do at the opportunity presented a programme a seminar programme, a workshop last night, yesterday, I had the opportunity to have breakfast with a lovely girl that's here on board with me. I keep records had the opportunity to get a letter from one of my students. So I keep records on a daily basis, had the opportunity to swim around the ship that I'm on every day, throughout the day. I have whenever I had the opportunity to do I keep records of it. At the opportunity to be part of a birthday celebration with a young firstborn child, I get thank you letters from students around the world have the opportunity to have a gathering with a musical group and to have dinner with a special musical group had the opportunity to do a participate in a show television show. I keep records literally every day I had the opportunity to be on the with the Denis Waitley tribute the other day with Les Brown and Brian Tracy and others. So I every time I get the opportunity to do something, I had the opportunity to go to various locations because I sailed around the world full time. Opportunity to so I keep records this this is this is all about the last week there's a opportunity receive a painting of my vision. When I was 17 years old, the vision I had to travel the world and speak somebody sent me the picture of a painting that just did. So I keep record of all my travels. So this is this is 1000s of pages. I have 30 volumes of this. This this one document is so far this one's 374 pages. But I have 30 volumes of this. So probably 25,000 pages of gratitudes

Agi Keramidas  13:56  
This is outstanding. It's I've never seen anything like that. And thank you very much for for for sharing that.

Dr John Demartini  14:06  
Here's what my one of my students that's just produced in a movie. So I get it sometimes it's from students so that they said thank you. Here's me sitting in my on my ship. Here's looking out the other night at the Milky Way galaxy outside my balcony. I've been on the outside the balcony on my ship. Amazing. So I keep I keep records of everything, all the other celebrities, I get to interact with all the Nobel Prize winners I get to meet and have discussions with all the places I go. So I keep record of it. There's the ship I live on. That's in that's in Milan Mulago. I was in a lager recently. So I constantly every day do this. And like I say it's probably 25,000 pages of gratitude.

Agi Keramidas  14:58  
Then up to two questions that come to mind looking at this? And thank you again for sharing that. I think it's very it's valuable to see it and get inspired by it. One is, I suppose you go back and reread it from time to time do you do that? Often it I'm just curious about that.

Dr John Demartini  15:22  
Sometimes I read them, I may go through a period of time where I'm not, but I just document I document what I'm grateful for my mother told me when I was a young boy, that those that are grateful for what they have, they get more to be grateful for. And I believe that gratitude is a sign of seeing things as they actually are, instead of seeing things as we fantasise or expect them to be, and I'm a firm believer of honouring what is, instead of comparing what is to what's not. And when I'm grateful for that. It brings a tear tear into my eye appreciation. It brings healing, it brings vitality, it helps me have less noise in the brain. It helps me be more authentic and sustainable in communication with my communications and transactions and business allows me to have more of appreciation, which I believe wealth comes from appreciation, not depreciation, allows the relationships to be enhanced, allows me to be a greater social influencer. It helps my body be more vital, and it is an attitude of inspiration. So I'm a firm believer of documenting what inspired you each day, there's always something you can be grateful for. And I believe that we have control over our perceptions, decisions and actions. And if we can prioritise our actions and live by what's highest and priority at all times, and delegate lower priority things, we increase the gratitude attitude.

Dr John Demartini  16:58  
So I don't do anything but teach, research and write. Everything else is taken care of, for me, I haven't cooked since I was 24. I'm doing the car in 32 years, I have, you know, my own captain, I have, you know, cooks and chefs and people and concierge, I have everything other than research, right? And teaching teaching is my main focus. I delegate to other people who are specialists who love doing that, who are grateful to do that. So I surround myself with people that are inspired to do what they love doing. So I can do what I love doing, which increases the gratitude, which then allows you to document that. And so prioritising your daily actions is one of the secrets of gratitude. Because you're more objective, and you set more grounded reality expectations. When you're manic, you set to bigger goals into shorter timeframe. When you're depressed, you tend to set to smaller goals into longer timeframe. And your subjective bias distorts reality. And you're not in tune with what's actually there. But when you're living by highest values and your objective, which means neutral, you set realistic expectations, your heart rate variability goes up, you have resilience and adaptability. And you have more profound appreciation for the magnificence of daily life. I also think that no matter what happens to you, you can take that perception, ask a new set of questions, be fully conscious of the two sides that are there, instead of one side, you may be overlooking and missing with unconsciousness, and become mindful of the magnificence in the perception and see how life whatever is happening is on the way. One of the greatest questions to ask every day is whatever is happening, how is it helping me fulfil my mission in life, no matter what's happening, how's it helped me fulfil my mission. When I can see how it's on the way not in the way I'm grateful and I don't cumulate baggage, I accumulate fuel. My vitality soars and my more realistic expectation. And I see the magnificence of the world as I go through. And then I have plenty to document every day. I sometimes document just six or seven things, I may document 100 things in one day. My birthday was a few days ago. And on that day, I received hundreds of thank yous and birthday gifts. And I document those all the things that people you know, are thankful for, and I'm thankful for. So in my journal, my my state of my mission book, which has a gratitude journal in it is all the things I'm grateful for inspired by. And if you start with what you know, you're grateful for what you know, grows. And I'm a firm believer that if you do that on a daily basis and make a habit out of it, just like brushing your teeth or combing your hair a little bit every day by the end of the century. And then you accumulate a life that's filled with it. And now people if they want to read this, my children can read this, they can see my life. My students can read it, and it can inspire them to to maybe reflect on their life differently and see things in a way that they can be grateful in life. At the end of your life. You're going to be asked a simple thing did you do everything it could with everything you were given? And you want to be able to say yes, I live my life fullness. With wholeness and fulfilment is being able to have sustainable fair exchange with other people, where you are remunerated in fair exchange for service. And if you can maintain those imbalance and not try to get something for nothing with narcissism, or try to give something for nothing with altruism, which are unsustainable, and give true communication and fair exchange, you will increase the power of gratitude daily, because you'll have fulfilment

Agi Keramidas  20:27  
when we when we write on the gratitude journal, apart from the act of writing, which obviously allows us to express or think and express what we are grateful for, how important do you think it is to have a specific mental state? While are you doing that? Or is it just enough to write it? Or do you need to feel it while you are writing it?

Dr John Demartini  20:51  
You don't want to write anything, that's not true. You don't just write something that just to write, you only write the things you're grateful for. And if you're not seeing it, through gratitude, somehow you're unconscious of information, and you need to ask the question to balance it. I was told by one of my mentors, when I was 23 years old, who had six PhDs, he was 35 years old, it's a very bright man. He said, Don't ever go to bed at night until you can review your day in such a way that you're grateful. So anything you're seeing that you're not grateful for, that means you have some unrealistic expectation on it, and it's not matching your fantasy. So what you do is you go in there and ask, so how specifically is whatever's happened for me today? How's it helping me fulfil which meaningful? If you do, you're filling the gaps with the missing information. And now you have a true gratitude. And you don't do it until you get it to gratitude. I don't go to bed at night till I get it to gratitude, I don't want to get up in the morning till I have it to gratitude. That's how you start today, it's way more fluid that way, then you write what's there. You don't want to write something just to be habit of writing something has no meaning. You want to extract meaning out of your existence. And meaning is the mean, as Aristotle said, the vices are the excessive or deficient responses to the reality of life. But the mean is the ability to see both sides and centre yourself. So if I can't say if I'm not truly grateful, I don't write it.

Agi Keramidas  22:16  
That's exactly what I was, was asking what you said the to extract the meaning. And that makes sense to me. It's nonsense. My question. So thank you. You. You mentioned the word, the phrase tears of gratitude. And actually, I wanted to ask you about that as well. Because there are some times queued in our day that we have an inspired idea or something happens and we have this tears of gratitude. And I remember I read somewhere you wrote that it's important to document this, specifically these moments because it's your intuition if you want speaking to you,

Dr John Demartini  22:56  
yes. When you're infatuated, your intuition is trying to point out the downsides to get you back into balance. When you're resentful, your intuition is trying to point out the upsides to get you back into balance. When you're in balance, you're inspired. The purpose of intuition is a negative feedback homeostatic mechanism to bring your mind into balance and to take you out of pride or shame and take you out of infatuation or resentment, and get you authentically centred. See, when you're proud, you're not yourself. When you're shamed. You're not yourself. When you're in fatuous, somebody's minimising yourself, you're not yourself. And when you're resentful, and exaggerating yourself, you're not yourself. You're only going to be in a state of grace when you're being yourself. So tears of gratitude are confirmations of authenticity. And authenticity is what you want to document in your gratitude journal each day, the moment you're grateful, if you document what tears of gratitude, that's a moment of authenticity, and you're seeing things through a balance die, and you're seeing things as they are not as they are supposed to be according to your fantasy. As the Gita says on top such as it is, instead of as it's not. And this is the key and gratitude is the tear of inspiration, which is no chemically balanced, reveals to you the moments of authenticity, all of your physiology, all of your psychology, all of your surrounding sociology, are offering feedback mechanisms back to you to help you become authentic, because the magnificence of the way you truly are when you're authentic is more profound than any fantasies that you impose on your expectations on life.

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Agi Keramidas  26:01  
I would also like to ask you about the importance of using affirmations or say to Lorazepam method to enhance our appreciation or gratitude. So I would like to hear your thoughts on empowering language that we share with ourselves.

Dr John Demartini  26:25  
Well, the word affirmation comes from the root to make firm in one's mind, experience of firmness in one's mind. And whenever you have emotions that are polarised, you have uncertainties and unforgiveness. When you have objective states, what I call the transcendental feelings, which is gratitude, love, inspiration, enthusiasm, certainty, and presence. These are things that can be firmly one's mind. So setting up an affirmation like I'm always happy, never sad, is self defeating, to say it's that whether I feel happy or sad, I know that I am being guided back to authenticity, thank you. Now you're saying a checkup from the neck up and you're stating something, it's a principle that can be a reminder of how to live and perceive life. So affirmations are very valuable. They're they're reminders of how to how to view your, your your reality, but you want to make sure that they're not setting up setting yourself up for fantasies. You know, I, I used to when I first started with affirmations, I would set up things and I had to polish them and clean them up, I had the probably the largest collection of affirmations you've probably ever seen. I could show you a 22nd set 26 page, one affirmation that goes on for 26 pages, I have so many 1000s of them. But what I found is the only one to write down exactly how you really want your life to be and make sure that they are aligned with what you value most. Because that's where you spontaneous are inspired to act. And make sure you're grounded in reality. So it's attainable. You don't want to set up a fantasy. See, I'm not always positive, I'm not always negative, I have times when I'm positive and negative. So if I set a perfect affirmation, I'm always going to be one sided, I'm going to self defeat. But if I say whether I feel supported or challenged, whether I'm praised or reprimanded, or whether I'm been treated kindly or cruelly, I know that both are bringing me into authenticity and guiding me back to my authentic self. And revealing to me a message that I can glean insights from to be more empowered and more profound in my contribution to the world. If I make a statement that allows me to face reality, and the bare pairs of opposites that offer that life offers equitably, and have equanimity and equity, I'm able to move through life with a deep appreciation. So affirmations are statements that can help you become firmly one's mind about the calling and the MATIERE the purpose and meaning that you wanted life to offer you. So I'm not setting up fantasies, I set up grounded realities that I know that in life, my life is demonstrate. If I look at what my values are teaching is number one, my life demonstrates it. So if I expect anything other than doing that, I'm going to set up an unrealistic expectation. I expect myself to be cooking I expect myself to to work in the gym tonight, you know, two hours a day. If I expect myself to go to social parties and drink or some these are things I don't do. I set up a fantasy and an unrealistic expectation, an expectation and statements that truly match what my life demonstrates. I'm going to be a compounded momentum building inspired, grateful individual. So set goals and objectives and statements that are truly conformed with what's truly valuable to you. So you'll walk your talk, not limp your life and you'll have integrity instead of you know, frustration in life. This adds to the gratitude To draw and you will spontaneously want to write the things you're grateful for every day, it comes out spontaneously.

Agi Keramidas  30:06  
Thank you. And I also wanted to ask about a different angle of gratitude or appreciation. And that is appreciation towards ourselves. And I think that quite a few people have an issue with appreciation of who they are and their self worth a few way. So I would like to hear your thoughts about how you can increase our appreciation of ourselves or gratitude towards who we are with all our perceived shortcomings and so on. Well,

Dr John Demartini  30:45  
anytime we see somebody else that we think is more intelligent, more achieving, more wealthy, more stable in relationships, more socially savvy and connected, more physically fit, more spiritually aware, and we compare ourselves to others, and put them on pedestals will tend to minimise ourselves in turn. And the self depreciation is a feedback to let us know that we're comparing ourselves to others instead of comparing. Anytime we put people in pits, and we think that we're smarter than them and more intelligent than more achieving than them and more wealthy than them in the opposite direction, will tend to have an unrealistic expectation and others to live in our values. Anytime we expect to live in other people's values, or expect others to live in our values, we're going to have self defeating a futility. And we're going to have an ingratitude attitude. And we're going to be frustrated because we were not living with it. People make decisions based on their own values, not ours. And we make decisions based on our values, not theirs. So if we don't set up realistic expectations, and set objective appreciation, the self depreciation is not a bad thing. It's a feedback to let us know we're being inauthentic. It's our friend. If I'm self depreciating, it means I'm having a fantasy about who I am, or I'm having a fantasy about somebody else. And it's giving me feedback to let me know to adjust my expectations, and reground and recenter, myself recalibrate my expectations, and to my end my objectives in life. So we don't need to get rid of that. It's a feedback to guide us. We need to learn how to listen to it and use it wisely to become more masterful at being authentic. Everything that's going on in life is trying to get this authentic. The whole world is giving us feedback to be authentic when we are where we are having a true gratitude because the pairs of opposites that life has to offer, we see both sides simultaneously. Wilhelm Wundt, one of the earliest psychologists said there were sequential contrast and simultaneous contrast. simultaneous contrast is where you see both sides of life that support the challenge that kind of cruel the pairs of opposites simultaneously, and you have a profound grace and seeing the hidden order and why Nature keeps things in balance. That's the gratitude that allows you to be authentic. But it was the other time is when all of a sudden you see the positive without the negative ego, you get a dopamine rush and you get infatuated. And you think, oh my god, I'm so happy, and you get manic. And this is actually setting yourself up for a false expectation that life's supposed to be that way all the time. And then you end up depressed when it's not matching that. And then you self depreciate or why can't I have this fantasy world. So I'm a firm believer in embracing the pairs of opposites simultaneously, instead of sequentially. And we'll have one showed that that was a very wise way to handle life and I find it and that was the path that William James described as, as an actualized transcendental awareness. Keppler said the same thing. So I'm a firm believer and be able to brace both sides simultaneously. So whatever I'm seeing if I'm elated or depressed, I know to ask the other side of the question, just like if the stock market goes down, I'm over it's overpriced stock when it goes up, when it goes up, it's overpriced. When it goes down, it's underpriced stock goes up, you made money on the past when it goes down, you made money in the future, you just keep investing. Well, if you keep seeing the centre between the pairs of opposites and see them simultaneously, you keep investing in your experience of authenticity. And now you have profound awareness and appreciation for life.

Agi Keramidas  34:16  
Thank you and you talk about the two sides that every event has two sides, because there is that inherent natural order in the events and I wanted to ask you and to bring this to the current situation how what what thinks is happening with the world with Coronavirus with, you know, society being polarised as it is and our liberties been eroded, arguably, and fipple exchanging their freedom for safety and the the consequences, the concerning consequences that may come as a result of that show. How do you think that This what what do you see is the other side? What is the hidden blessing in this so called pandemic that changes our society so much?

Dr John Demartini  35:10  
Well, to assume that it's not there is to create a crisis for your own awareness. You know, the reality is that there is no event one sided. All events are new, narrow minded thinking. broad minded sees neither good nor evil. A narrow mind sees either good or evil, either positive or negative. The amygdala wants to avoid pain and seek pleasure, the executive Senator wants to see objectively both sides. So when COVID hit back in March 2020, or whatever, I sent out a letter to millions of people on my database to tell us the upsides that they're experiencing. So we can concentrate our focus on both sides, and got 17,000 responses and the 17,000 responses the first day and that's the first day 17,000 responses. They had list of anywhere from 10 to 50. benefits that were going on in their life, they got closer to their family. They learned how to use technology more effectively. They started going on Zoom, they started to appreciate priorities. They started realising that things that they were doing were not necessary. And they started to connect with people in different ways. They started writing all the best things out of it. In my situation, has I travelled speaking extensively. Now I'm travelling on Zoom, and I'm going on I'm able to live on my ship around the world and do programmes around the world. I wrote down the list I took in their list and it was 1000s. So there's absolutely no reason to see it as a setback. Isn't it simply your choosing to buy into the the subjectively biassed extremist social media and television regular media's sensationalism that polarises things to grab attention because anything you infatuate with a resent occupies space and time your mind so the more they polarise it, the more you watch TV, but the more you synthesise it, the more profoundly grateful you are. Because COVID has, it does not bring drawbacks without benefits. There's no such thing as a one sided world. So I'm a firm believer of just taking the time to be conscious of both sides. And it will start with the questions you asked the quality of your life spatially quiet the questions you're asked if you have asked questions to see the opposite side of what you're seeing, and you say to yourself, you will be grateful again. So COVID is not a cause of anything. It's your interpretation, you're, you're responsible for your perceptions, not COVID. And you can make a mountain out of a molehill or molehill into a mountain or heaven out of a hill or hell out of heaven is as Milton said, and it's totally up to you. If you ask the right question and balance it you can see something be grateful for COVID every day.

Agi Keramidas  37:58  
And apart from the individual, others side of COVID Do you see how do you see the collective blessing of all the situation as as humanity or meanness consciousness?

Dr John Demartini  38:12  
Well, it shows that when a collective society is proceeding distress, that it reverts down into a lower brains function that goes into the amygdala where it wants to avoid pain and seek pleasure and becomes more or you know, subjectively biassed and more polarised. So we're getting to see the polarisation of people who are choosing to see one side without the other. And they're taking aside the pro vaccine and the anti vaccine, the pro life the anti life. These these pairs of opposites, which are given rise to in chaos theory to the law of artistic escalation, which is the balance of opposites are demonstrating still the pairs of opposites that always balanced if you look, I just look. But if you choose to take a side, you're going to create an opposite side to the pose. Anytime you take a position you create an opposition anytime you transcend the position, you get to see that there's nothing but a balancing act going on. So the broader your perspective, the more transcendent you look down at the game, you see, it's an order. It's there's a hidden order to it. It's not about there's no out of orderliness. But it's just the choice of what you perceive. So it's about asking the right question. I I'm absolutely certain that a collective society, if it's led by a wise leader, the Wise Leader will help people ask the question, to help them centre themselves and see the order inside that and not take people into polarity. Otherwise there's going to be the polarity, the polarity is still balanced, regardless of how extreme the polarity is. It's still balanced. And if you take the time to show that and reveal that you can calm down the society and and help them see that there's two sides. If you take a side and you say you're right and you make somebody wrong, you're going to create a clash instead of your addiction. Due to being right and addicted to being proud and addicted to being you know, only one sided your side, you're going to get it right guarantee the equal and opposite position coming in to humbly. So that's foolishness. Wisdom is saying that you're not here to be right, you're here to love, your love. You're not here to put people on pedestals or pitch you're here to put them in your heart. That's the you can't be authentic. If you put people up and minimise yourself to them. You're not authentic. If you put people down and you exaggerate yourself, you're not authentic. But if you put them in your heart, and get to be yourself, you appreciate who they are. How are you going to be loved for who you are, when you're not being who you are? Not possible. So stop putting people on pedestals and pits and put them in your heart, watch what life does, it's quite magnificent. There is no such thing as a one sided person, there is no good or evil person. There's the human being with two sides. If you see one side, you're gonna label them you see the other side, you're going to label the other way. When it when the Trump killed Soleimani in Iran, the general of people in Iran mourned. 5 million people came out and mourn his grief because he was a hero to them. He saw him as a terrorist in America, right? So it's a misperception of them being a hero. And there's a misperception of being a terrorist Soleimani was just a human being, he was worthy of love. But people who saw one side were infatuated, the other people saw the other side. The reason for both of those are illusions. And both of those solutions clash. But the truth is, every human being is worth putting in your heart, there is no human being that's not worth putting in your heart. And everything that we see in other people is a reflection of something we're too proud or too humble to admit we have. And our reflective awareness allows us to own what we see. And when once we own what we see, we have love and intimacy, because we have reflective awareness, and we have gratitude.

Agi Keramidas  41:56  
Thank you so much for explaining in such a way and saying that we're, we're here to love rather than anything else, and it's a very comforting message. So thank you. And then I would like to also ask you some last quick fire questions, which I always do. And the my first one is what does the term personal development mean to you?

Dr John Demartini  42:26  
Anytime we put people on pedestals and minimise ourselves in response, we put on a persona, a facade, a mask of who we are, we're not authentic. Anytime we put people down and exaggerate ourselves, we put on a persona, a mask a facade, we're not authentic. We have no, we have what they call inequity. But the second we put ourselves on equality. And we have equanimity equity between us. And then we don't put ourselves up, we don't put ourselves down, we put ourselves in the centre, we now we have equanimity when we have equity within. This is the most sustainable fair exchange relationship, we can have equity theory. And that state, we're not trying to get something for nothing, narcissistically we're not trying to give something for nothing altruistically, we now have a sustainable fair exchange. And that's the one that is sustainable, and is loving and is grateful and automatically appreciates. Because if somebody if you ever transaction with somebody, and you feel like they gave you more than you expect, you feel uncomfortable, if you feel like they gave you less than you expect, you feel uncomfortable, trying to get something for nothing, or trying to give something for nothing, it's unsustainable. But when you have a train transaction that's truly balanced, and it's in the present. And it's fair, you have appreciation, love, and you reflect and see that what you see in them as you and that's that's the difference in personal development. Personal development is the journey of taking your personas and integrating them into authenticity. And once your authentic, your personal development is now an authentic path, you're now living authentically and integral. Otherwise you're disintegrated. You're exaggerating yourself and minimising yourself. And most every time we judge as empathetically said in this fifth century, sixth century BC, there's love and strife. When we're in the centre and we love, we're authentic. When we have strife, we're inauthentic. Our personal development is a feedback mechanism to guide us back into authenticity. And it's creating symptoms in our physiology and psychology and sociology, to let us know when we're inauthentic because the non fair exchange leads us to symptoms to get us back in fair exchange. Everybody wants to have a fair exchange with people. And so that's what personal development for is to help us integrate into authenticity, our journey through life, so we have more gratitude, and love for life. We all want to be having love and gratitude. We all want to be loved and appreciated for who we are. And that's how we that's how we actually achieve it.

Agi Keramidas  44:57  
Thank you and the quick hypothetical question If you could go back in time and meet your 18 year old self, what one piece of advice would you give him? If you would,

Dr John Demartini  45:08  
I would just say thank you for following your intuition and your inspiration to help you get to where I am today. I wouldn't say anything except thank you. Because there's anything you can't say thank you for his baggage. Anything you can say thank you for his fuel. And there's nothing to regret in life. To regret life is to compare that current reality to a fantasy of how it's supposed to be. You never make a mistake in your life, as a party is described in his laws of least action. There is no error in life. It's only when you compare your actions to somebody else's values, you think you've made a mistake. And it's only when you've compared other people's actions to your values, do you think they made a mistake? There is actually no mistakes in that equation. But it's knowing how to ask the right questions and being authentic to yourself. When the Delphic Oracle said, Know thyself, be thyself, love thyself, it's basically describing as be authentic to what you really value and stick to what's priority in your life. If you do that, and delegate the rest and give job opportunities to others to do what they love doing, if you help other people get what they want to get life, you get what you want to get in life. And that's very fulfilling, and life is really magnificent. There's no, there's no difficulties in life unless you create it in your own misperceptions and expectations about reality.

Agi Keramidas  46:21  
Thank you. And imagine from the conversation we had today, if you were to give to the listener, one actionable item, something they can implement straight away, what what would you tell him,

Dr John Demartini  46:32  
you have two ways of fulfilling your life either going and doing what you love through delegating, or go love what you do through linking. And linking means how is no matter what's happening to me today? How's it helping me fulfil what's meaningful, and then start to look in the mirror and realise that no matter what you've done or not done, you're worthy of love. Stop the comparison of yourself to others. If we compare ourselves to others, we're not going to compare daily actions to our own highest values. And we're going to be wobbling through life and with uncertainties instead of actually being grateful through life with a certainty and presence of our mission of contribution.

Agi Keramidas  47:08  
Thank you. Thank you very much. And I want to thank you for this wonderful conversation. You shared so many things in in your, in your way, which is I'm always fascinated to, to listen to you. I want to wish you all the best and please continue to inspire people and help elevate people's lives. Any last parting words?

Dr John Demartini  47:39  
Yes, I was born on Thanksgiving day, Thursday was my birthday. So I turned 67 Thursday. So because I was born on Thanksgiving Day, I figured I might as well live up to my birth. So last words to say is give yourself permission to do something extraordinary on planet earth. Because the true you is extraordinary, and the magnificence of who you truly are is far greater than any fantasies you'll ever impose on yourself. So transcend the fantasies and honour the magnificence of who you are, and watch the magnificence of who you are unfold right before your eyes.

Agi Keramidas  48:17  
I hope you enjoyed listening. If you have please share this episode with someone who you think will benefit from it. If you want to know more about what I do, visit my website AGIKERAMIDAS.COM - And until next time, stand out don't fit in!