Jonathan Legg is a veteran adventure traveller and TV host & producer, having hosted 5 seasons of Road Less Travelled, exploring off-the beaten-path destinations worldwide. He recently published his first book, The 7 AHAs Every Traveller Should Have. He says that many people are travelling the wrong way and losing a chance at self-growth. His goal is to give the reader a new lens so that the road will become a great guru or muse.
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* Exploring self-growth through travelling
* The 7 ahas every traveller should have
* See life through the lens of a new culture
* From expat kid to travel host
* Exploring cultures for self-discovery
* The power of intentionality
* The archetype of Buddha
* Travelling with an open mind
* Understanding mortality through travel
* Better to go deeper than farther
* The last time meditation: a Stoic practice
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03:15 Exploring the Journey of Adventure Traveler Jonathan Legg
08:38 Exploring Self-Development Through Travel: An Interview with Agi Keramidas
09:44 Exploring the Impact of Social Media on Travel Narratives
15:29 The Transformative Power of Travel
20:45 The Impact of Hunter-Gatherer Instincts on Intercultural Relationships
21:37 The Profundity of Travel: Slowing Down to Punch Deep into a Culture
27:11 The Meaning Behind Monuments: A Reflection on Intentionality and Archetypes
28:30 Intentionality and Presence in Life Experiences
30:59 Understanding Mortality Through Travelling
31:29 Exploring Death in Different Cultures
36:24 The Benefits of Last Time Meditation for Travelers
42:25 Exploring the Road Less Travelled
46:24 "The Road is the Guru: A Last Time Meditation for Saying Goodbye to Friends"
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โThe good stuff in life almost always comes with connection. Foster relationships with people who are also on a path of self development.โ
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I am Agi Keramidas, a podcaster, mentor, and knowledge broker. My mission is to inspire you to grow, stand out, and take action toward the next level of your life. Visit my website: AgiKeramidas.comโฃ
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In this episode, I'm joined by Jonathan Legg, a veteran adventure traveller and TV hosting producer. We discuss the many ways travelling can provide opportunities for self-growth, exploring topics such as what it means to be "well travelled", the difference between the travel literature of the past and the current era of social media, and how travellers can slow down and listen to gain a deeper understanding. We also explore concepts of mortality and personal development, discussing how cultures have dealt with mortality throughout history and how travellers can gain courage and kindness through their experiences. We also discuss his book about the seven AHA moments that a traveller must have in order to gain a deeper understanding when travelling.
[A.I. Summary created by https://podium.page]
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EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION
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Please note that while an effort is made to provide an accurate transcription, errors and omissions may be present. No part of this transcription can be referenced or reproduced without permission.
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Jonathan Legg 0:00
Every one of us is going to do something for the last time. For example, there'll be last time you play tennis, right? And there's the last time you'll eat a kumquat. And there's the last time you'll listen to a Barry White song. And for everything, there'll be less time for everything. But the problem is we we never appreciate things as if they were the last time.
Agi Keramidas 0:26
You're listening to personal development mastery, helping you take the simple actions to master personal development and create the life you gain for. I'm your host Agi Keramidas. A few years ago, I was unfulfilled and unmotivated. I felt I had lost my sense of purpose and my life was merely passing by. Since then, I've been on a journey of personal development that has transformed every aspect of my life. My mission is simple to inspire you to take action towards a purposeful and fulfilling life. In this podcast, I invite myself inside the minds of remarkable entrepreneurs, authors, thought leaders, healers, spiritual teachers, people who share the wisdom from their life's journey. So if you're ready to find practical insights that you can implement right now, make sure you follow the podcast and get the episodes as soon as they are released.
Agi Keramidas 1:26
In today's episode, I am delighted to be joined by Jonathan Legg. Jonathan, you are a veteran adventure traveller and TV host and producers having hosted five seasons of road less travelled, exploring off the beaten path destinations worldwide. You recently published your first book the seventh house every traveller should have. And you say that many people are travelling the wrong way. And because they travel like that, they lose a chance at self growth. And your goal is to give the reader a new lens so that the road will become a great GOOD WORLD NEWS as you call it. Jonathan, welcome to Personal Development master what a pleasure it is to speak. This is great. This is Samson. important topic. And I haven't discussed in my podcast, Matt's about the show who's really looking forward to our conversation. Travelling us, you know, personal development, self growth through travelling and you have, you know, lots of amazing experiences and stories about travelling. What I would like to start before we actually go into the content of the book, and these are hearts that the travellers should have. I would like to ask you to give us a brief background. I mean, your story, how did you become this kind of, you know, a lifelong adventure travellers? What, what was your inspiration to do that? And when did it happen?
Jonathan Legg 3:15
For sure? Well, I think I was, you know, like all of us fate. Fate is fate and biology determine who you are. And I was fated to be born in in Peoria, Illinois, in the suburbs. But before I was even a year old, my, my parents moved to Hong Kong for three years and then the Philippines for four years. And so I came to consciousness in an expat community in Asia, you know, with people around the world, working there, not to mention the local culture, the the culture of Hong Kong culture of Manila, and the Philippines. But then all the other expats in the expat kids I was exposed to, and then we went back to Peoria when I was about eight years old. You know, and I went from a very diverse sort of environment to one that was was super close the suburbs of the Midwest, where the culture of the culture there is sort of like a simulacrum of culture you go to for Italian food, you go to the Olive Garden for Mexican food you go to you go to cheat cheese, where they serve it a chimichanga, which doesn't, as far as I know, doesn't even exist in Mexico. And it's so it's like a it's like a Walt Disney version of culture sort of. But and luckily, because I, I was came to consciousness in Asia, I could see through the veil, right, I could see that this. This wasn't the real deal. And so I craved authenticity I wanted I knew out there, though the real stuff was out there. And so as soon as I could, my goal was just to get on the road as soon as I could. So, you know, coming out of school, I got into English teaching, and I went to Bogota, Colombia, actually in a pretty pretty rough time in 1996. And then I went to Italy. And then I discovered that being a flight attendant was easier than being an English teacher if you wanted to travel. So I became a flight time with the United Airlines and I flew the minimum amount of hours, and I just used my benefits to travel, travel, travel. And then 911 happened and business plunged in the airlines, as you can imagine. And my airline United offered these massive furloughs, they offered like this two year furlough, where you could keep your benefits accrue seniority, you had health, you had travel benefits. So I took those two years, and I went to Japan, and kind of accidentally became an actor in Japan. And so this allowed me to make some money, have some fun and plunge into Japanese culture. And, and then, one day, I want to I'm on a set in Japan, and I'm working with a Japanese director real late at night, and this guy was extremely open and affable for a Japanese man. There's so much so that at one point, he looked at me and he said, you know, you take this more serious than the other guys, you're thinking about jumping in the deep end of the pool. And I said, What do you mean, deep end of the pool, he's like, you know, LA. So I felt, you know, those moments in life where you feel like a window open up and space and time, and you realise that if you don't go through that window, now, you're probably never gonna go, you know, with this Japanese director, really, really opening himself up and extending himself to give me this encouragement. If I wasn't going to make a jump to La then I was never going to do it. So I came to LA and I, I, I was crashing on a buddy's couch that first week, and he had an old copy of the actors magazine on on his desk and in the backward classifieds. And there was a job posting for travel show host. And I applied for it. I had a little bit of a dialogue with a cop with a with a company. I had good I had a lot of travel experience at this point. But I didn't have good copy all my video content was was goofy stuff from Japan. So they picked another guy. They just stopped talking to me. That's how it works in LA. But two years later, I guess one of them will the main guy from this company left to start as another thing. And he pulled the old audition tapes, and he called me so you can imagine two years later, I've totally forgotten about this. And out of the blue. I think I'm filming a promotion video for the MGM in Las Vegas, I'm in my room on break and then the phone rings. And this guy's like hey, do you remember a few years ago you auditioned for this thing? And he offers me another job as a travel show host and boom. So there's there's the quick progression from expat kid to English teacher to flooded to Japanese actor to travel show host
Agi Keramidas 8:38
I can I know that it is one of those difficult questions when you have to condense you know, so many things into a very short answer, but yes, of course, it was. I would like to really then get to the you know, the point of discussing travelling as a way of self development, because and you know, that very well better than me that most people do not travel with that purpose of evolving or growing, they see that as, you know, a break from their routine in life or as far as to take off countries on on a least or and usually what happens is that they go there and they take lots of photographs of, you know, sites with that.
Agi Keramidas 9:44
So, can you tell me about there is a question that I was trying to formulate in my mind what I was saying, but I would like a comment about how most people travel based on your experience nowadays and what is it that You are talking about instead, what's the missing? Maybe element to start seeing travelling differently?
Jonathan Legg 10:09
For sure, well, I grew up with travel literature that was kind of the the dominant media at the time. So you had a guy like Tim chi hill or PICO hire, you know, they, they couldn't just sell a book saying, Well, I did this. And then I did that. And oh, look at these gorgeous visuals, they had to communicate through text. And I think that, that compelled a deeper narrative, right, they had to extract some some wisdom, and some philosophy at the destination and pass it on to the reader. And now we're in a different era of social media where the visuals can do the talking. And instead of selling books, you're you're getting likes and follows. And so in a way it's made, it's made things more accessible, but it's also made things more shallow. And it's, it's subtly reframed the dialogue. So I think New travellers are kind of born into this frame and don't realise it, that when they when they go abroad, quite often they're on someone else's agenda. Either they're on the agenda of a, maybe the person who arranged their trip to travel company. And it's just about let's, you know, let's knock out these sites, or they're on the agenda of a social media company that feeds on content. So they're, they're running around just trying to get that content and play that game. Or sometimes, you know, and I fell prey to this for a while you, you want to get a well travelled status, you want to be known as a well travelled person, a traveller. So you're just trying to jam as much as you can into the time, you know, like I did I quote, unquote, did the Baltics in 10 days, Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia. 10 days, you know, and I thought, yeah, now I'm a big shock, because I have three new stamps in my passport. And I know that I know, I've been to the Baltics, but but the truth is, if anybody asked me a deep question about the culture of Estonia or Lithuania, Latvia, that will travelled status that I hope to accrue will it would scratch off like cheap paint, right? And also, what I've learned is, you know, if you tell somebody Oh, yeah, I've been to 100 countries or 120 countries that, really, nobody cares, because it doesn't offer them any value. Right? What are they going to do with that? It's only for your ego? Yeah, vanity, right? It would be much better, be much better if I just went to a few countries. But I got so deep in those countries that I learned to look at life, through the lens of a new culture. Because everybody does things a little bit differently. And what you learn is some people do it better, some people do it worse. But just like when you're in the, when you're in the woods, when you're in the forest, and you pull out a map and a compass, and you need to figure out where the hell am I you need, you need to triangulate, right? So you look into the distance, and you say, oh, there's a there's that peak over there. And I can find it on the map. And then over there, I see there's that that that smooth Hill, I see that on the map. And now I can Oh, because the peaks there and the hill is there. That means I'm here. So being exposed to other cultures in the same way allows you to figure out where you are on the map of life, like what is the best life for you and others. And so going back to this analogy of me telling you I've been to 120 countries or or versus me only going to three countries but but plunging deep. Now I can share that knowledge with you rather than you know, me going out and trying to 20 countries this brag does nothing for you. But if I can share the perspective of different cultures with you. Now you can extract some value from that different way of looking at life and gives you options for what it means to be your best self or to live the Vita Bella the good life. And you only get that value by getting off the social media agenda, getting off somebody else's travel itinerary and slowing down a bit. And listening instead of just imposing your itinerary on a destination like a it's a one way exchange. It's it's a dialogue and you You're listening as well as enacting your agenda, of course, you want to see a few things, you have some plans. But it also has, there has to be a balance of, you know, here are these things I want to do. But also, you need those beats to just be quiet. And amble around and have no agenda and pay attention and listen, and you know, something gets offered to you a new door opens, it's not what you plant, we'll just walk through it, follow that lead.
Agi Keramidas 15:29
This is beautiful. Thank you for sharing it in such a way. I liked what you were just saying about having no agenda, and sometimes just follow the the opportunity that that might present itself, like intuitively going for that that's a beautiful piece of advice. And I liked very much what you said you should see life through the lens of a new cultures. And I think that is a really important Realisation to make that while I am in that country that has it shown completely. Depending on where you are, of course, there's different way of perceiving things, communicating all these things, to gain that kind of different perspective by being there. So I really liked the way you presented that. And I want to ask you to bridge that actually us with Your, your book about the AHA, the seventh house that the traveller must have in in, you know, when, when when they travelled? Can you tell me, I will have a chance to hopefully speak about two or three of them. But I would like to ask, what what inspired you to to create this book? And, you know, have that number of seven has that you ended up with?
Jonathan Legg 17:12
That's a good question. Well, I, you know, travel definitely transformed me because despite, despite having that early upbringing in Asia, after so much time in the Midwest, I would say when I left high school, I was I was little bit closed minded, and a little bit fearful of people who were different than me, you know, because you're kind of so isolated, and it's so easy in this world. To to kind of make somebody else that to have in groups and out groups, right to say these people are the the others, whether it's the people on the other side of town, or across the border, or you know, in a different continent. And it's just it's, it's kind of almost inherent in our genes. But that doesn't necessarily that doesn't mean we shouldn't push back against it. There's, there's, there's some things in our genes from our hunter gatherer background that are beautiful, that should be embraced. And there's, there's other things that that should be modified, or tampered down, right. I mean, road rage makes total sense from a hunter gatherer point of view, you know, if, if you're in a group of 100 people, that's your whole world is these 100 people all the time, right? And can I swear on this podcast? Absolutely. Okay. So if somebody if some, if another male in your tribe, one day is like, Fuck you, motherfucker, you know, you're gonna think I better kill this guy before he puts a spear in my back on the next hunting expedition. Right? You know, he showed this open aggression towards me, you know? So it, there's some logic to that. So when you know, you're you're driving on the road, and somebody rolls down their window and says that to you, you obsess about it all day long, like I kill that motherfucker. You know, but it it doesn't make any sense in a city where you're never going to see that guy again. Right? You can just drive away he's not going to kill you on the next hunting expedition, but your genes are still running this programme. So going back to other ism you know, we have this this, this this tendency to people we're not exposed to become fearful of them and suspicious of them and travels the best way to break that down. And it's so crucial now in our world would now that we have this this ability to kill each other at a mass scale is to when you when you when you go and meet other people and I've been around the world, both in personal travels and filming the show, and I've met I've met vampire aficionados in the catacombs of Paris. I've met goth or rockers and underground clubs in London, a huge hunter gatherers in Sarawak, who still use poison darts at a blow pipes. And yet, when you when you hang with these guys for a certain amount of time, of course there are these beautiful surface differences. But at the core, we still we hope for similar things we want to be loved, we want to be understood, we want to have purpose in life. So we are the same creature and in many ways think I answered your question or when
Agi Keramidas 20:45
you know, these, these questions do not have a specific way to be answered. There's no thank you for your answers. No, it's, I would actually like to ask about these seven hospitals, I'm going to bring back the conversation there. And there are two things that come to mind. But I won't I will ask them one at a time. So the first one, tell me one of those or has that you believe for the listener right now it is something that they need to consider really having that or implementing it or doing something about it in a way on the next travel. Just pay let's pick one and we will move I will see how we could move from there.
Jonathan Legg 21:37
Okay, great. Well, we touched on one already, which is it's better to go deeper than farther, right? It's to slow down to punch deep into a culture. Quite often more is is is less, right? We live in a consumer culture where we're just kind of always cajoled into thinking the more of something I can get the better. But really is the profundity of your travel, that's kind of you're gonna get the best stories, you're gonna get the best insight from slowing down at a destination, and taking time with it and not rushing it. And I give an example, in in the book of a monument on a hill, you're in many places you travel, there'll be some kind of a religious monument sitting on top of a hill. Nowadays, it's usually it's usually a Christian symbol. But probably before that Christian symbol was there, there was some kind of a pagan, or indigenous statue or sacred site. And so people have been climbing up pilgrims have been unbelievers. And probably hunters and gatherers have been climbing up that hill for 1000s of years, to make sacrifice to think about their lives to reaffirm who they are and and what their tribe is about. And you arrive there as a traveller, maybe on a maybe on a tour bus. And you know, in the last 10 years, a road has been built and the tour bus whines up the hill, you spill out, you get 10 minutes on top, you know, you think, Oh, wow, there's a beautiful statue or take a picture of it, because that's what I'm supposed to do. So you spend the whole time and is lining up the best picture. And then, oh, hey, it's time to get back on the bus. And we got five more things to see today. So you get back on the bus. And pretty soon you've you've forgotten all about that monument. Your picture is one of many nobody really cares about it, because there's, frankly there's better pictures you can find online than the one you have taken. And what never occurs to you is that there was also a trail going up to the top and maybe if you would have hiked that trail and put it put that effort into hiking that trail by the time you reach the top the monument would have spoken to you in another way it's like it's like the to actually go together and then you can't separate them. So if you were to hike the trail and you would have kept your phone in your pocket and maybe just gazed at the monument and gazed at the view with thought about your life and had some intentionality about the whole thing. Something would have opened up you know the these the architecture that we see in our travels in the statues. They're more than just a good picture. And look, I've taken plenty of pictures you can look at my Instagram, it's fine to take the picture but if you spend 10 minutes taking the picture, give yourself at least 10 minutes imbalance to put The phone in your pocket and just sit in the temple in silence or just stare at the monument and think about it because these, this architecture, this design, the sculpture was created with a lot of intention. And what I mean is the is the architect or the sculptor was trying to communicate something to shape and form. Right? It's not just something pretty to get likes, it's, it's something it's trying to tell you something. Right, that statue that. That could be you in some way maybe, you know, for example, take the statue of Buddha, okay, yeah, you Buddha was perhaps a real person I believe he was. But you could also look at him as a as an archetype. Right? Like, in fact, if he's just a just a historical person, like, like any other historical person, it'd be probably wouldn't have resonated so much throughout the years. You know, there's so many Mesopotamian emperors and asked to x and we don't Sumerians, we don't know their names, right, the great powerful people who, you know, conquered land around them, and at the time you drop their name, people's knees would quiver in fear. And now we don't we don't know about them at all. Couldn't even think of their names. But yet Buddha, for some reason is has moved is evergreen is something perennial about it now, is that just because he was historical figure? Or was it because in a way he is or he might be you he may be he's also a kind of an archetype. So yeah, it's for you to decide. But if you get there to that statue of Buddha on the hill, besides the picture, just look at it for a second and think about it. Well, what if it is an archetype? If it could be you? What's it trying to say about you?
Agi Keramidas 27:11
I want to take a short break from this episode and quickly let you know about something I'm sure you will find useful. We are drowning in information but starving in wisdom. This podcast, for example, has almost 300 episodes and as you can imagine, there is ample wisdom in them, but who has the time to listen to 300 podcasts. My mission as a knowledge broker is to convert this vastness of knowledge and distil it into wisdom into implementable insights. So I have created a free special resource for you, I have chosen the top 10 podcast episodes that offer the greatest value in three main categories of life. First, the top 10 episodes about money. Second, the top 10 episodes about health. And third, the top 10 episodes on mastering your personal development. This free ebook is a curated catalogue of those top 10 podcast episodes in each category that will offer you the greatest value and in the shortest time to get it go to personal development mastery podcast.com/top 10 And you will also find the link in the show notes. Alright, let's get back to the episode. The word that comes to mind with how you were saying earlier about hiking that trail off you know being in the temple and actually sitting down and meditating or praying in there like they used to it the phrase that came to mind is be be present in that moment rather than doing anything else just absorb the experience you said earlier on about slowing down and I like that so I will read the rate that on more and you also use the word intentionality which I really liked as you know, a way to be be or become more aware or more you know, understanding of this is something that will help me to do it having the intentionality rather than just going up and down and just taking things so thank you for this. I will I will dare to call it practical, as I say that's how I understood it from the description. So it's it's fantastic. There is one other of the house that you have in your book that I would also like to have, you know, a couple of comments from you. And that is the In the heart number six, you say that that you are going to die that from the travelling, you have the opportunity to understand your mortality. There was actually a remember there was a story or something that you described that you have some tools during the travel to, to get a more visceral understanding of the fact that you're finite and that you're going to go because it's one thing, you know, to intellectually speak about death and say, yeah, yeah, I'm going to die one day, but it's very different to have a visceral understanding of it, which will probably going to make us take different choices in life. So do you want to share? How do you mean that aha moment in travelling are we going to do something really dangerous and
Jonathan Legg 30:59
honour percent? Well, I've done you know, I've had quite a few near death experiences doing a film, especially filming road less travelled, which is, which is an edgy show. So we've, you know, almost, we almost died on a desert dune and what's got lynched in Kashmir, almost got hit by quite a few buses avoided.
Agi Keramidas 31:23
The average listener is probably not very much willing to do anything like that.
Jonathan Legg 31:30
And you don't have to, you don't have to because many cultures read history and even some cultures today have reminders of death, which is kind of the flip side to life, always two sides of the coin, eight certainties yet in our modern consumer culture, we really push it away now more than ever, you know, growing old is almost shameful, right? You want to mask it, you want to hide it, you want it you lie about your age, you put on the beauty products, you get plastic surgery, right? You know, obviously, you have you have the right to do whatever you want to with your body in life. But it's good to question am I am I ashamed of growing old in my life? Am I afraid of it in a cultural sense, like there's something wrong with it? Because that's, that's very modern in culture. Other cultures throughout history have been very aware of the fact that the death is just the flip side of life. You look in mediaeval art, they have something called the Memento Mori, or the reminder of death. You'll see it in mediaeval art with our glasses and wilted flowers in and the skull. And EFCC death gods, in many cultures in the US, you had hades in Greece. And even today, in Mexico, there's a there's a death card, there's something more out there, who's who's gaining and gaining in popularity. I think it's the fastest growing religion in Mexico at the moment. And we filmed in 2019, we filmed in in Bali. It wasn't my intention going into the episode to do an episode on death. But we got a lot of death content, we found a cemetery where they just in a very animistic way, they just bury the dead in the open, they put a little bamboo cage around it to keep scavengers out. But you can look right through the slats in the bamboo and see the corpses. And we also got invited just serendipitously to a man's funeral. He was a he was kind of like a community leader, a wealthy man, but a man who shared his wealth and helped out people in the community. And he had just passed on. And we got invited to his funeral we showed up at like, 5pm The body was there. They were doing preparations. We filmed some stuff and then we went back, took a nap, we came back at like 2am where they had the corpse out and all the men from the village were were dressing the corpse and putting putting like lotion on it and then they wrapped it. And then they put it inside a coffin. And then by the morning, I think by about 10am and people spent the whole night there the whole community spent the whole night with with the body, preparing it. And then in that 10am A huge procession goes down the street. They're carrying the the body in a coffin, a line and people are ahead and behind maybe, I don't know it could have been like 200 people in it. ventually we get to a field, they slide the coffin in a huge wooden statue of Nandi, which is the divine bowl that the chief arrived. And then they set it on fire. And it was sort of a, it was sort of a joyous event. The everybody was was celebrating this guy's life. And I actually met a middle aged man there who had brought his 10 year old daughter. And I spoke to them as this big Nandi thing is burning. And he's like, Yeah, you know, I wanted my daughter to come out and realise this is part of life. But he said, also, you know, you should know that this guy was a good guy. And that's why even in his death, the community has come together. But if he was, if he was not a good guy, you know, if he was just a dude who lived for himself and never helped anybody, he would be lucky if his wife and his daughter showed up to the city morgue, when his body got incinerated. During so that's a reminder that that you know, life good, well lived. You know, we think about life after death a lot. Well, this guy does have a life after death, because he inspired and helped so many people. And he's living on through them.
Agi Keramidas 36:24
What's one different action, maybe your perspective for the listeners to for the next travel to appreciate more? We all have that aha, that we're talking about? What what's one perspective on different way of travelling in order to?
Jonathan Legg 36:45
Well, there's something everybody can do right now, today. It's a it's a stoic technique from from stoic philosophy, which came out of Greece and Rome. And the idea is, I think, informally, it's called the last time meditation. Right? Every one of us is going to do something for the last time. For example, there'll be last time you play tennis, right? You know, whatever, you. You play it one day, you lose your friend, and you play tennis with moves away. And you think you will again, sometime but but the truth is, you never will. And there's the last time you'll eat a kumquat. And there's the last time you'll listen to a Barry White song. And for everything, there'll be less time for everything. But the problem is we we never know, he shaped things as if they were the last time you know, I, I experienced this very, very viscerally when we were actually in Bali, filming this episode on death, one of my friends back in LA, died of colon cancer, it happened very fast. And I was trying to meet this friend before I left to go for a hike. And he just told me Look, I'm a little under the weather. So let's do it when you get back. And I probably could have tried a little harder to meet him, I could have just walked by his house, but I just assumed I'll see him again. He's a he's a healthy guy. But I never, you know, I never saw him again. And that's going to be true of everything. So with that in mind, if you set out today, or you set out in your travels, if you just take a particular friend or particular activity you do, maybe I don't know you have crab cakes from lunch. Consider this, this could be you. I don't know about you. But I don't have crab cakes that often. So it's very likely that the next time I have it could be the last time. And if I keep that in my mind, I'm going to savour those crab cakes more than usual. And as you leave for your next trip, and you say goodbye to your your friends, you know, don't take it off for Guatemala. I'm going to Europe this summer. Take a minute and realise that, you know, you hope that they're all going to be there, you're going to come back and they'll all be there. But it might not. It might not happen that way. You might not come back. They might not all be there. So it seems grim. And so why would you want to think about that? It seems morbid. But the truth is by holding this frame in your mind, you're going to connect more deeply with them. Right? If there's something you need to say like to your friend about how much you appreciate their friendship there. They've all they're always optimistic. They're a great listener. You love their sense of humour. Well, this is the time to say it right? Because you might not see them again. So don't don't hold back. Assuming you've got another shot. Don't consume those crabcakes mindlessly while you scroll news on your phone and put the phone down and taste that food. Right When you play that game of tennis, really, really sink into it, don't be lost in your mind thinking about other things really connect in the moment with that game and the feeling of your body running across the court and the feeling of a good swing and connection with the ball. You know, these are things to be savoured. And when we realise that there is a last time for everything, and we hold that, in our minds, we can extract more juice and more connection out of life.
Agi Keramidas 40:31
That's a wonderful answer, and you use the word savour a few times. And I actually kind of have been getting this, you know, underlying message from you what we were discussing earlier on to slow down savour the moment be present that what you're doing, and then all sorts of amazing things or insights or aha moments will happen as a result of you actually, being present, and savouring the moment. And thank you very much for that last time meditation. I have the you said about the stoic and I remember I have that here. So just show that hey, stoic. I've been reading every day, you know, for a few years now. It's part of my morning routine. And I remember that last time meditation, it is one of those days, so I'm going to find out which day it isn't. Put that also on the on the show notes. Jonathan, where would you direct the listener who found this conversation fascinating and would like to learn more about you and the book and what you do?
Jonathan Legg 41:46
Well, my website is Jonathan leg.com. Jonathan spelt, like the biblical way. Leg with two G's le GG. The book is the seventh aha was every traveller should have available on Amazon and Barnes and Nobles, and all those. And the show I'm on is called the road less travelled. And if you just googled it, there's a lot of road less travelled because of the poem. And it's just it's a catchy name. But if you search road, this travel Jonathan leg, you'll find a lot of clips, and maybe you can be directed to where you can watch the show on TV.
Agi Keramidas 42:25
And I will very quickly say here that I have checked your YouTube channel, and there are some incredible stuff there. I will leave it to that, because we could easily have three podcast conversations about some of the things there. It's
Jonathan Legg 42:41
just warming up here, brother.
Agi Keramidas 42:46
Yeah, why not? Let's sort something out and maybe discuss some stories. At some point. I would like to start wrapping things up for today. Jonathan, I would like to ask you just a couple of quickfire questions, which I always ask my guests. And the first one is What does personal development mean to you?
Jonathan Legg 43:10
Personal development means that I'm always becoming a better version of myself more courageous, more kind, more understanding more economists with the flow of life. And I'm showing up for my community as well.
Agi Keramidas 43:28
Thank you. That's a wonderful answer. And a hypothetical one, if you could go back in time and meet, say, your 18 year old self, what's one piece of advice you would give him?
Jonathan Legg 43:41
Wow, it's a great question. I would say, I would say you know that life, really the good stuff in life almost always comes with connection. So foster relationships with with people who are also on a path of still self development, and make those friendships, maintain those friendships, build a good tribe, and maintain that tribe.
Agi Keramidas 44:12
Jonathan, I want to thank you very much. This has been a really fascinating conversation for me and there was as I told you, an underlying message that I picked up and I hope that we have conveyed that to the listeners as well and hope hopefully inspire him or her to see their next travel and generally because this is not just about travelling, what you are saying is every day application for for life or mine URL if you want, but even more for travelling, so I want to wish you all the very best with your or your endeavours and I will leave it to you for your last parting words.
Jonathan Legg 44:57
Thank you for having me. Augie. This was great. I would just encourage everyone on your on your next travel. When you say goodbye to your friends, as you're going out the door, try this last time meditation think maybe I won't see them again, and maybe I won't come back. So really savour that moment and your last moment with your friends. And as you embark on the trip, try to look at it as if you were taking a psychedelic, you know, if you swallowed a tab of LSD or some mushrooms, you wouldn't take the mushrooms and then pull out a piece of paper and say, Here's my big agenda for this mushroom trip. Now, in a sense, you're going to in a sense, you're just going to lean back and be open to receive something right. And you're anticipating that there's wisdom there, that just for you to detect that you have to kind of be quiet and present with the experience to glean it. And in the same way, when you go on to travel, you get your little itinerary, but also set it aside and consider that the road is the guru that there is a message there for you that you will learn something, that there's something essential to an understanding of what it means to be to be human to be alive. But to get it, you really have to be quiet and pay attention. But for sure it's there.
Agi Keramidas 46:24
Thank you for listening, and I hope you got valuable insights from today's episode. For your free ebook with the top 10 podcast episodes that offer the greatest value in three main categories of life. Go to personal development mastery podcast.com/top 10 Until next time, stand out don't fit in