#118 Reprogramming the subconscious, emotional attachments, and how our early childhood experiences affect our adult romantic relationships, with Thais Gibson.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION

0:05  
Welcome to the personal development mastery podcast. I'm Agi Keramidas. And my mission is to inspire you to rise up, grow, stand out and take action towards the next level of your life. I interview leaders, influencers, entrepreneurs, authors, exceptional people who can and will inspire you to improve your life, Jr for two episodes each week, and make sure you subscribe to the podcast to get the episodes as soon as they

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are released.

0:36  
In today's show, it is my real pleasure to speak with days Gibson days you are a personal development expert and author, speaker and co creator of the personal development school. You're best known for your contributing work and research on attachment theory and the impact of attachment trauma in our own our adult romantic relationships. And you have written a book on it on the topic, the attachment theory guide, you're passionate about helping your clients across the globe, transform their life relationships and overcome substantial challenges through the personal development school days. It's a real pleasure and an honour to have you on the podcast with me today.

1:20  
Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. I'm honoured to be here with you today.

1:24  
It's amazing. And I'm really looking forward to our conversation because I think it's extremely important. And maybe many people are completely unaware of what's going to listen today. So there is I would like to start with a little bit of background of your story. So you are extremely passionate about personal growth and also the subconscious mind. So I wanted to ask you Have you always been like this? Can you give us a bit of background or maybe a key defining moment in your journey?

1:59  
Yes, I would say by far and away, the most defining moment for me was actually at 14 years old, I became addicted to painkillers after a knee surgery. So I was an athlete, I played soccer growing up, I went on to play like division one college soccer in the United States and got a scholarship and all that stuff. But that journey was very tumultuous journey. So I think for myself, I had like a lot of unresolved childhood trauma that I have not addressed and hadn't really taken a look at. And, you know, we sort of had your genetic predisposition in there as well, which I had a lot of addiction in my grandparents. And so they say often it skips a generation. And so when I was 14, I had a knee surgery, and tried painkillers for the first time. And that was sort of the end of that. So for me, what was really interesting is, I think, as a young person who at the time was like a high achiever and had great grades, and, you know, very good and all sports and all these different things. It was sort of this, like what's happening to me, like what's going on? Why can't I stop moving in this direction, and like trying to seek out these things. And so I spent a lot of time what I would call at war with myself. So a lot of time like journaling at night, like, I'm going to avoid the girl who sells them to me in the hallway by right by going this way to class instead of that way. And I'm going to, I would write out all these things that I would do. And like, then the next day, I would go back to the same things all over again. And I kept feeling like I was losing this battle in the relationship to myself, like, I wanted to get sober, I wanted to get off of them. And yet I kept repeating the same mistakes, kept doing them over and over again. And I think for a lot of people who really want to be out of addiction when they're in that space. There's a lot of like self loathing, and it can be very tormenting experience. And so I went through a lot of that. And I ended up like really seeking out help trying many different things. Not a lot of stuff was working for me, did rehab in the summer, you know, did a meetings, na meetings, all that stuff. And it just really wasn't like working for me. And I'm not saying that those things don't work for many people and that it's not important to tribe. But I was still like fairly high functioning. So I was still in school, I was still doing stuff. It was sort of like my little secret. And I told my family like I'm really struggling. And and what ended up happening is one day in a psychology class because I was in university for psych. And one day a student said to me, oh, the conscious mind can't outwell or overpower the subconscious mind. And it was like somebody told me why I was losing the battle to myself every day. Because my conscious mind is like I want to get sober. I want to grow I want to move through this. And my subconscious mind was like, No, we want to avoid pain and numb pain. So we're gonna keep returning to the painkillers. And, and so this was like such a powerful thing for me. And it really kicked off this journey of like, oh, there's hope there's, there's something out there that can explain this stuff. So I proceeded to like go through school, do a master degree in transpersonal psychology and then like 13 or so different certifications and like CBT, NLP hypnosis, like all that stuff and I was so eager to learn. And when I learned about subconscious reprogramming and being able to isolate our patterns and our traumas and the meaning we gave to those things, and the stories about ourselves and do reprogramming work. For me, it was like healing the roots of problems that were allowing the symptoms to go away. And so actually experienced, like, a tremendous amount of healing, like feeling that it was easy to be sober and do life sober and moving this in different direction by healing, the route patterns that were really causing, I think, a lot of pain that were then causing me to seek out painkillers to numb that stuff. And so I really found that was symptomatic of something deeper. And as I did that work, it was like very profound in terms of the change and transformation and so very passionate, because it's very personal for me.

5:52  
Mm hmm. And thank you for sharing that. And I will certainly want to discuss more about the subconscious reprogramming that you mentioned. But before we go there, can we go to the beginning? Where is the subconscious programming come from in the first place, and we need to reprogram it? So why why was it that you were struggling with your subconscious?

6:16  
Yes, so I was definitely exposed to a lot of childhood trauma. So there was a lot of things I saw in my household, a lot of really challenging family dynamics that I went through. And as a result of that, I think I had a lot of really intense core wounds. So whenever we go through traumatic events, we basically get imprinted at the subconscious level. And I remember somebody saying to me in rehab, and this is like a really big game changer. Somebody said to me, genetics loads, the gun and environment pulls the trigger. And I remember feeling haunted by that at first, because I'm like, Oh, that makes sense. And it sounds nice. But you're just telling me it's genes and environment, you're telling me I'm a product of my genes, and I knew addiction, random, my family, and my environment. And I was exposed to a lot of volatility in childhood, a lot of childhood trauma stuff went on. And so I was thinking, like, You're telling me I'm so well, you're telling me, I'm going to be stuck like this for life. And I was like, I think I was 18 at the time, or 19. And I was like, I can't accept that. And I later learned through a lot of my own research, that it's your perception of the environment that pulls the trigger, because you can take people in the same objective environment, but because of their own subjective interpretations of that environment based on their past programming, they can have a totally different experience. So for example, somebody might lose a job and their adult life. And if their subjective interpretation of that was, I'm unsafe, I'm going to be homeless, I'm never going to get another job. They're in suffering. If somebody else is subjective interpretation was you know what, I didn't like this job I was waiting to get out of here. They're in pleasure. They're happy, they feel relief secretly. And so it's really important that we realise Okay, what is that subjective interpretation made up of? And that subjective reality that that subjective filter that we see reality through is all of our subconscious programmes that we've collected because of things that we've been imprinted with over time, the things that imprint the subconscious mind are three main things we get imprinted by what's modelled to us. So what we see in childhood, we get imprinted by what we hear over time. So I don't have enough money, I don't have enough money, we're running out of money that creates an imprint. It's really the repetition of things, plus the emotion behind them that actually creates programmes. And and then it's also our first hand experiences. So whatever we're repetitively exposed to, that elicits an emotional response, naturally imprints the subconscious mind. So to circle back for myself, going through lots of volatility in childhood, I developed a lot of interpretations about the world because I had a lot of repetitive things. And I developed a lot of stories about myself in my life, that filter for me was, I'm helpless and powerless. I don't have control, I am unsafe, you know, a lot of these what I call core wounds, that then our belief patterns, essentially, right? These are beliefs that we collect over time, through these imprinting, these pieces of imprints, and this is a really interesting thing, belief patterns, elicit thought patterns. So let's take like a really simple belief like I'm not good enough. So if you believe this about yourself at a root level, because of imprints from the past, let's say I'm on my way to like a social event or a job interview, I'm going to start thinking thoughts like I'm not smart enough. I'm not interesting enough. I'm not funny enough. I'm not prepared enough. Right? All the extensions of I'm not enough at that core belief, proponent. And then thoughts and beliefs both elicit emotional responses. So how do I feel when I'm thinking those thoughts, anxious, afraid, you know, whatever else it might be. And then neuroscience has conclusively proven, every single decision we make is based on our emotions, so even people who are like I'm logical, you know, at the tipping point, we're making emotionally based decisions. And then what's even crazier for me what I Learned was, emotions are made up of neural chemical reactions. So if I have a lot of painful imprints and painful belief and thought patterns that I've collected at the subconscious level, and I now see my world through, I'm constantly going to feel worse. And I'm constantly going to have negative neural chemical reactions instead of positive ones like serotonin, dopamine and oxytocin. And so now, no wonder I'm seeking painkillers. No wonder I want to numb pain, because I have all these programmes at a subconscious level that are causing me to have pain and painful response to things make more painful decisions at the action level, like neuroscience has proven. And so I get caught in the cycle. And if I can just reprogram those things at the root, I can find my way out of this whole experience. So it looks great. A lot

10:45  
of us did a lot of information. And my next question, which is related to exactly what you were saying is the trouble that many of us find when we are faced with trying to change a belief or something that limits us, and you were telling your own story of how you were struggling. And I remember my own trying to change some beliefs that I have by repeating affirmations, you know, all the personal development tools and tactics. But still, I wouldn't see much progress, if any at all in terms of you know, reprogramming and it was only when I read the Biology of Belief by Dr. Bruce Lipton that I thought, wow, that that book instantly went to the best five books I've ever read. So it really changed very much my thinking about how to change our limiting beliefs. So I would like your, your thoughts on the topic of reprogramming?

11:53  
So okay, so I love this. So Bruce Lipton was a huge teacher for me in my journey as well. But, um, so so this is what I found. He was actually one of the people that I learned it was the perception of your environment, that was the trigger. So I think we spend a lot of like research around that, which is amazing. So what I found when I learned and I went into like hypnosis and did all the certifications for that stuff is the subconscious mind doesn't speak language. So it doesn't speak like through if you say, I'm not enough, or I am enough, or things like that, that's not the language of the subconscious. And the beliefs are at the subconscious level. So we can't try to solve the problem up here when the problem is over here, right? And so the language of the subconscious is emotion and imagery. And so when we're saying affirmations, for example, like the analogy I often give to people is imagine that you're interviewing me for a job. And you're like, why are you a good match for this job? And I say, because I'm good enough? Because I'm good enough? Because I'm good enough. You're like, okay, but how do I know that? What does that actually mean? And so we really need to speak in the language of the subconscious, which is in memory, because memory is a container all memory is coloured with emotion for us. And all memory exists as a little image as as imagery. So we actually have image and emotion when we're doing reprogramming. So if we try to reprogram, and we say I am enough, we're not really reaching the subconscious level. And if we try to do reprogramming, we say, I am good enough, because and we come up with pieces of evidence, this reward I received this, you know, education that I did this, whatever it might be, let's say I say, Oh, I'm not enough, because I have this education, maybe my mind when I say that education, pictures myself walking across the, the podium and getting my certificate, and, you know, and, and, or diploma, and then I'm in this position where my, my subconscious just picks that up, because I have the image, and I have the emotion contained within that memory. And so now we're actually usually using our conscious mind to speak to our subconscious mind when we have that evidence. And if we combine that with being in a relaxed state of mind. So, you know, in a suggestible state, when we're producing more alpha and theta brainwaves, like after a meditation, in the first hour, we wake up or last hour when we go to sleep, are much more suggestible. And so we can actually sort of permeate the veil of our subconscious mind and reach it properly with the correct information. And if we do that, we pick a core belief we oppose it with evidence for about 21 days, and we pick 10 to 15 pieces of evidence per day, the tool called called auto suggestion, and it's very powerful for reprogramming and that's one of many.

14:38  
Yes, and I know that we can only scratched the surface of this topic in a podcast and it is it is extremely for me very fascinating conversation. And I think for For more information, let's direct people to your YouTube channel or your website. And if I would also like very much to speak about attachments with C was something you're very passionate about, and especially the the impact of attachments from our childhood experience on to our relationship relationships. So can you please tell me first of all, what do you define attachments? And how do they come from?

15:27  
Yes, you can think of you can think of attachment as being like, the idea of attachment theory is essentially just an analogy that's really well digestible is that we all learn a subconscious set of rules for how we relate and how we connect to other people. And we learn them from our childhood. And they're basically a collected set of imprints at the subconscious level, based on the repeated exposure we have to certain events. And what's interesting, is, I often give the analogy that if you, let's say, you and I sit down, and we're gonna play a board game, but we have totally different rules for the board game. So we play Monopoly, and my rules are like rules for checkers and yours are like rules for monopoly, we're gonna have some problems, we're gonna have some like, conflict and confusion and things pop up that are unforeseen. And I like to think of our attachments as are from an attachment theory perspective, as being the subconscious set of rules we learn for how to relate to other people. But because there are different attachment styles, often a lot of people in their relationship dynamics are playing by different subconscious, that's rules.

16:32  
That's great. And so we get these sets of rules subconsciously, when we're children, and then we carry them over to our adult relationships,

16:45  
or all of our subconscious programmes. And so there's four different attachment styles, and each attachment style. So we've created something called integrated attachment theory, which is, prior to working with attachment style components in my, in my practice that I ran for years, was, we did a lot of I did a lot of reprogramming with people on their core wounds, their unmet needs, or painful beliefs. And what I realised which was so interesting is, as I dug deeper into attachment theory, that each attachment style actually has their own unique subconscious set of rules that they're living by their subconscious needs that they have in relationships, and expectations that often come with them. Each attachment that ultimately specific emotions, they tend to feel on a more regular basis. And they also have different core wounds and core beliefs that they've picked out. And so we were able to pick out somebody's attachment style and realise that that was a container for so much information that can then be used just by identifying advertising itself, to reprogram all their underlying patterns, which similar to like, the addiction idea is if you deal with the symptoms, you deal with the root problems, those core beliefs, the unmet needs, those painful expectations, or emotional imprints they have if you reprogram those things, they actually naturally shift their attachment style towards becoming securely attached, which is what we're speaking at the end of the day.

18:07  
And then we'll, we'll come to that. Before, before I do that, can you tell me? So someone is listening to this? And they're thinking, Okay, so if I learn about attachment theory, or my own type out of the four, what will that do for me, which kind of relationships will lead to effect.

18:30  
So, so attachment theory, and I'll talk about the four attachment style, too, so people can figure out which one they are. But um, but attachment, your attachment style affects every relationship. So it affects your adult romantic relationship, the most we could say, because we have a tendency, like as a species to replace our primary caregiver relationships in childhood, aka our parents, with our adult romantic relationships, that becomes our primary connection. But our attachment style also affects our friendships that affects us in the workplace. It affects our, like all of our co working relationships, and especially our family relationships as well. So siblings, children, parents, all of that stuff, because again, these are all the subconscious rules that we have to relay.

19:18  
And these these four types of attachment styles, does every person has their own or their own, or does it also depend on? So could I be a different style on my romantic relationship than on my friendships, for example, or is it like one thing?

19:36  
The Great question, so what we'll see is it's based on what you're exposed to. So it's really interesting, like we have rules and you can think of them as being relative to the game that you're playing in a way. So for example, let's say like I grew up personally, and I was fearful avoidant, so and I'll go through and share what this means. But I wasn't I was the only child for the first seven and a half years of my life. So I had a sibling who was Weren't earlier. And I had parents who were quite controlling a little bit so, so I didn't play with a lot of kids growing up. So you know, until I did this attachment style work, I was fearful avoidant with my family relationships, and bringing up into my adult romantic relationship. But my rule is for relating to kids into peers, were quite dismissive avoidant, so I was very, you know, I didn't have a lot of needs that I would meet through friends, I, you know, became more adjusted as I worked at that as I got older, but up until like, fifth or sixth grade, you know, I wasn't like, I was very shy, very introverted, very, like, not connecting with a lot of other kids just like found my needs being met through sports and through like other things. And so, because my exposure around kids was very minimal until I went to school. My subconscious is it related to peers didn't have a lot of exposure there. And so it's based on like, the relationships that you're connected to. But if you have a primary attachment style, like you're very strongly fearful avoidant, you're going to see that that soul shows up to certain degrees patterns in other relationship dynamics as you get closer. So do you want me to break down the different powers

21:10  
about to ask you can you break down those four types, so maybe we can, as you describe them, we can identify some characteristics that might be very, very familiar with.

21:24  
The first type is securely attached type. It's the only secure attachment style of the four. And it's ideally what we're really trying to move towards. So securely attached children and their upbringing often get really good modelling of behaviour. So they're taught that their emotions are okay to talk about, they're taught that their feelings are safe when they cry as children, caregivers often come towards them and sue them and connect them. And caregivers tend to be loving and quite consistent, there tend to be a lot of structure in a child's life. So they basically grow up feeling like I am worthy of being seen and heard. I am loved just for being way I'm not for what I do. And they feel like they're safe. And they feel like they can trust. And so they go up, they grow up and they go into school and they go into different things. And they naturally have an easier time connecting with others, because they have that natural self confidence, my feelings are good, I can be seen and heard all these sorts of beliefs. And obviously when they go into adult romantic relationships, that has a major role there as well. And then you have your three insecurely attached types. And at one end of the continuum in a way, we have our dismissive avoidance. So the dismissive avoidant is the individual who they usually grow up, and they have some form of emotional neglect in childhood. And this doesn't have to be like overt emotional neglect, it can be more severe neglect, where a child has not parented properly foods, not on the table, parents are really, really struggling, they're not available whatsoever. But a lot of the time, it's more under the radar, emotional neglect. So it'll be things for example, like, you know, foods on the table, there may be some structure in order in the household. But caregivers are not expressing a lot of love a lot of affection to the child. And because when we're we're biologically wired for attachment growing up, we get really afraid at a very young age and can get really into sympathetic nervous system mode, like fight or flight. If we don't feel like our caregivers are tuned tops, if we cry, and they don't come towards us, or if we cry, and they say stop crying, and they kind of shame us for emotions, things like that. Basically, what happens is a child because they know that they are completely dependent on their caregiver for survival. As a child coming into this big scary world, if you don't feel like you're connected to an emotionally attuned to, there's a bit of an ongoing survival response happening, where you're going, and we're going to be abandoned, what's happening, why don't I feel this bond. So if that proper bond isn't there, even though other things can be there, a child sort of learns to cope by going really inward and being like, Hey, I'm not safe to be vulnerable, and not safe to to bond to other people. It just makes me feel rejected because I want this thing and it's not getting that. So I am unsafe, and then a child as well. They don't have the capability of going, Oh, my caregivers are emotionally unavailable. So instead, they make it mean something about that I must be defective, there must be something wrong with me at my core. And so a lot of dismissive avoidance of a big shame wound. And then they also feel like hey, I have to meet my own needs. And they learn to be hyper self reliance. They don't like to let other people meet their needs. And as a byproduct of that, they often grow up and they're they feel trapped, easily. helpless, afraid of being in close relationships for both parties meet each other's needs, because all of their programmes and imprinted associations from childhood are negative around vulnerability, emotional connection, all those sorts of things. So we often see the dismissive avoidant in their adult life be the person who avoids relationships, doesn't want to make a commitment, sometimes out of relationships for very long periods of time, like a decade, 20 years things like that, and really tries to create a lot of space as a means to protect themselves and stay safe. And their comfort zone is hyper self reliance. And then on the other end of the continuum, sort of exact opposite you've got your anxious preoccupied. And this is the individual will often see who's in their adult life is like the clingy one or the needy one or the person who like wants a lot of closeness and gets afraid and be it this is all coming from their childhood imprints at a subconscious level where they usually felt some kind of real or perceived abandonment. So it could be that a caregiver and a very young age, you know, left the home for a year to travel abroad, you know, or have to work somewhere else or something like that. Or it can be that the caregivers were really warm and loving, but maybe they both had a busy work life. So they work a lot, they go away, right? So you see, this child who like really learns to bond through others and feel safe doing that. And they keep getting this like perceived abandonment, like Oh, Mom and Dad work for 12 hours a day, or whatever it might be. And so that repetition is what programmes and so they repeatedly get this fear of abandonment, fear of being alone fear of being excluded, and these are the core wounds of the anxious, preoccupied, I will be abandoned, I will be alone, I will be rejected, I will be excluded. And maybe it's because of me not being good enough. And so we often have this individual in their adult life, they really get afraid of being abandoned, and their coping mechanisms to avoid that or to be very charming, very charismatic, very attached, hold on very tight, but sometimes we'll see their protest behaviours being things like calling 25 times or you know, doing things that we may seem extreme. And we may go, Oh, that's not a good thing in relationships. But it's really just a trauma response for that individual. And so that's where a lot of that is coming from. And if you reprogram those core wounds, and you'll help them learn to meet some of their own needs, so they can be more self reliant, that actually moves very quickly to become securely attached. And then our very last one, we've got the fearful avoidance. And the fearful avoidant is really interesting because they sort of have like both sides. Sometimes if you're avoidant is called the anxious avoidant because they can have the anxious side and the dismissive side. And usually it's because they don't get a proper attachment strategies in childhood. So what often happens is, you may see that a really easy example is let's pretend that a fearful avoidant has a child that has a parent who is an alcoholic. And so what they'll see for example, is okay, sometimes I can bond with pretended mom. Sometimes I can bond with mom, and she's sober, and she's really nice. And sometimes I can bond with mom, and she's sober. But she's detoxing from so much alcohol. And she's really mean. And sometimes mom is drinking, and she's really nice and sometimes almost drinking and she's mean and scary. And so there's no consistent way of connecting. And so what this child learns is they get the anxious side, like oh my gosh, I'm going to be abandoned, I'm going to be alone. Mom might drink again, you know, and they have the avoidant side where they go, people are painful people reject me it doesn't feel good to connect because mom's scary sometimes and she doesn't feel good to be around. And so they get the the core wounds of the anxious and the core wounds of the dismissive or they have, I will be trapped, I will be helpless. I will be powerless, I am unsafe, I'm out of control. Something's wrong with me, or I'm defective. And I'll be alone abandoned, not good enough. Those sorts of things. But the primary biggest ones for the fearful avoidant are, I cannot trust because they usually don't see anything that allows them to develop that trust and that trusting in their their bonding with a caregiver. And so they tend to be like, two huge characteristics of the fearful avoidant is they can be very hyper vigilant. So they're always reading between the lines, they're always like looking for what's in between, sometimes that's a superpower. And sometimes that helps people dig deep into stuff. And that can be a nice thing. But sometimes with people in relationships, it can make it very difficult because they can be very suspicious. And then there is that sort of suspicious characteristic where it's like, they're, they're sort of on guard, a lot of the time, they have a hard time, sort of like letting their walls down and things like that. So those are the major attacks. And hopefully, people can sort of recognise where they are in that next.

29:11  
Thank you for these days. That's very fascinating. And I suppose we have a blend of this types in our behaviour, don't we? I planted it blend like?

29:25  
Yes, absolutely. We usually don't just have like one specific style. Usually we'll have like a primary attachment cell. And we'll have other patterns that if you imagine that sort of on a continuum, you'll sort of say, okay, lean this way on the continuum, I'm gonna have some, you know, anxious patterns that will have a little bit of that showing up for me or I have some of wooden patterns, I do tend to sort of push people in, I can rely on myself a little too much. Sometimes. I don't want to be vulnerable. And so you can sort of see where you exist on that continuum to a degree as well.

29:55  
Sure. That's it. Thank you and Let's so once we recognise the type or the types of attachment, and let's say that we want to do something about it, so of course recognising It is always the first step. So what would be an appropriate next step to today

30:18  
at NASA. And so I found so I think something that's important to give context for is the only way that we emotionally suffer or in pain is because of two things, either unmet needs, and unmet needs elicit a pain response, right, that's a good thing technically, because, you know, if you look at it from a, from an evolutionary perspective, it's like, oh, I have hunger pains I seek food, or I have, you know, I feel discomfort of the cold though I seek out shelter. So we have this natural, like, the pain makes us move, it makes us evolve, it makes us show up. But then suffering is the story we tell about the pain. So let's say for example, we have a basic human need for love and connection. And maybe our need is on that because maybe somebody lives alone during COVID, and quarantine, and all these different things that have a little bit of that unmet need, and that doesn't feel good. And we have to be adaptable and find ways to get that need met, needs met in other forms. But if we then start telling a story, and we say, oh, nobody wants to be around me because I'm unlovable because I'm not good enough. I'm gonna be alone forever. Now we have suffering. But with that being said, seeing that those are the only things that can cause pain or suffering, when we're trying to heal, whether it's our attachment style, whether it's like addictive patterns, whatever it might be, we have to start isolating what our unmet needs are, and what our painful stories are about ourselves in the world. And those are the things we have to reprogram. So we have to reprogram our relationship to our needs. So for example, somebody who's anxious preoccupied, they're always like, relying on other people to get their needs met, right? They're out of relationship to their own ability to meet their own needs. And so part of their healing becomes, I have to reprogram using repetition, and emotion, my ability to have a relationship to my own needs. So I need to learn what my needs are on a regular basis, let's pretend an anxious preoccupied really wants to feel validated by other people encouraged? Well, we have to learn to start encouraging and validating ourselves in our internal dialogue, we have to learn to stop putting ourselves down being so self critical, and instead start building ourselves up and being encouraging. And so when we start identifying what we need in relationships from others, if we're on the more anxious side, and then learning to meet those needs in relationship to self, we build some self efficacy there. And that already moves somebody towards security. And when we combine that, with identifying those core wounds, like I'm going to be abandoned, I'm unlovable, I'm going to be alone forever. And when we start reprogramming and telling a different story, like we talked about earlier, with auto suggestion, for example, or other reprogramming tools, we start to be able to uproot those wounds, and we're not seeing the world through that filter anymore, which allows us to feel safe or connecting to other people and not so afraid. So we're really always targeting there's other components, but the big major ones are, what are my unmet needs? How can I start meeting those for myself? And what are my painful wounds? And how can I start reprogramming those wounds and the absence of those things puts us back into a secure place naturally. So that's the anxious the dismissive on the other hand, they tend to be like I can't let other people meet my needs. So they're healing towards balance and equilibrium is all about you know, if I'm dismissive for example, I'm I have to learn to practice rely on other people a little bit and learn that it's safe, and practice being a little bit more vulnerable on a regular basis and asking for my needs from other people. And so that's the reprogramming of those needs and then again, reprogramming the stories I'm trapped I something's wrong with me, I'm unsafe, etc. Fearful avoidant, exact same thing reprogramming relationship to needs, and then learning to actually reprogram those core wounds. And as long as we do those things, that's a pretty like, you know, failsafe way of reprogramming our attachment style. And I've seen this with 1000s of people at this point. So it's, it's quite simple when you understand like, the background of what's going on.

34:12  
sounds fascinating. And I'm actually curious, I wanted to ask you guys, based on your experience, in your research, what kind of percentage so are secure or predominantly secure anyway?

34:27  
Oh, it's really interesting. research says it's about 50% of people. Okay, um, you know, I, I always sort of go back and forth because we could argue that my sample size of people who are coming to do the work are coming from an insecurely attached place. And we could argue that the other argument is that a lot of people when they're self reporting, something I found all the time is when people are self reporting, they often tend to see themselves in a more positive light. So I would see over and over and over again, people say, Oh, I'm, I'm securely attached, I just have a little bit of anxious attachment just a little bit. And then as I get to know them and see their patterns and see what they have to work on, they're very anxiously attached. And they weren't really you know, they were self reporting from their best self, or, you know, things like that. So a lot of that those statistics, about 50% of people being secure, are based on self reports, right? So so we it's hard to say exactly, I found in the people I worked with, it was much less, but then again, like we're saying, you could argue that with my sample size, when people are coming to do the work and show up and, and so they're obviously coming from worms, so it may not be a fair representation of the entire population.

35:40  
So we were discussing this before we started recording that I took the test that you have on your website, and I'm thinking now, probably in some of the questions when I was not entirely certain of the answer, I chose the one that my ideal self would choose rather than the harsh reality. So I really get what you mean, about self reporting.

36:07  
And we could argue to right, like you're here, you're working on your journey, you're really aware. So, you know, obviously, people are probably listening to this podcast, they might have a little more insight into themselves. And so we're talking about people who come in because they're like, I need help. I don't I don't know what's going on. You know, I have to work on myself. And they're coming from like emergency situation, people I saw my practice, maybe people could be a little more trusted to self report who are already learning and growing and have that insight, but you never know for sure.

36:35  
Amazing. Do you want to tell us

36:38  
some of your work? How do you help people specifically with attachments. And

36:46  
so a lot of it is like what we're talking about that like understanding the needs understanding the core wounds, there are other components for sure. Like, we'll find, for example, that anxious, preoccupied and fearful, avoidant, both really struggle with boundaries. And what we'll see is like a big pattern, for example, for fearful avoidance is that they will give give, give, because they have this like I am unworthy core wound a lot of the time, like, I'm not worthy for who I am and worthy for what I do, or create or give or share. And so they often are earning their worth than there were in the world. And so they'll go out of their way to like, give and then often under receive, and then they get angry. Later on, they become resentful, they become upset, anxious, will do the same thing, but they won't get upset because they're too afraid of being abandoned. So instead of pushing people away and feeling upset, they'll continuously people police forever. So there's there's characteristics around codependency and motion and boundary setting, little things like that as well. And learning like our emotional patterns and how to regulate. But you meant like my work in terms of what kind of tools I provide, is that what you mean,

37:50  
and that as well, if you if you want to share? Great,

37:54  
yeah, so the work that I do. So I originally ran a practice for the better part of a decade and worked with a lot of people one on one. And at some point in time, it wasn't really feasible, like I had about a two year waitlist for clients. And it was like, Okay, well, this doesn't make sense. People are getting mad at me a lot. They're going like two years like what you know. And so um, so what we ended up doing is I had a friend of mine who came along and said, We you should take all this information you created and make it scalable. And so we created a whole bunch of courses that teach people like their different types themselves, how to reprogram their own patterns, courses on boundaries and measurement, codependency reprogramming your subconscious for success, how to set an achievable, like we have about 45 different courses, that I created the personal development school, so I personally wrote all the courses. And they're all about personal development, but for the subconscious mind. So it's all about whatever it is that you're working on how to actually pull it down to the subconscious level, and then do that work there. And it's so interesting, because you'll see like, little things happen where people will be, you know, I can't achieve that goal. I can't get there. And it's like, yeah, 88% of people fail their new year's resolutions on like week one, because their conscious mind set their new year's resolutions and their subconscious mind has different priorities. And so I really teach people like how to understand their subconscious patterns as a person, and where they are and what their fears are and limiting beliefs and their attachment style patterns and core wounds and all these different things through these these courses, and then come out with like an output of the exact steps they need to take to reprogram and so it's been such a fun, cool experience. I've really enjoyed it. And I have an amazing team and everything. So we launched just over a year and a half ago about about, actually, I think just under a year and a half ago, October 2019. And we've had about 5000 students come in who are active members and doing the work and all that stuff. So it's been a really, really beautiful and rewarding experience.

39:52  
And it is great to see your enthusiasm, your passion, your energy when you talk about all this. It's amazing and the It's also rubs off. So thank you personally for that. days, I would like to also ask you some quick fire questions to start wrapping things up. So the first one I always ask and I'm actually very much interested on your onset is what does personal development mean to you?

40:25  
Personal Development means fulfilment for me. Because I think that we can, you know, I remember growing up as a kid going, I just want to be happy, like just really wanting happiness and like peace. And you know, that's my conscious mind and personal development when you can, like re align your subconscious patterns, and maybe the things we didn't ask for like hidden ask for the core wound, I can't trust or things like that, when we can actually reprogram those things, we can move ourselves toward fulfilment. And to me, that's what success is in life, too. It's not like the car the money or like, it's all about, like, Are you happy? Are you enjoying and peace in your life?

41:01  
That's great.

41:03  
And let's say you could go back in time and meet your 18 year old self, what's what's the one piece of advice you would give her?

41:12  
If I could do it over, I quit at 18, I would be like, the subconscious mind, go learn about it right now. I would have saved myself the next three years of suffering, until I started really learning. But um, but I would say that, but I would also say have patience. I think I had a lot of lost faith up points, you know, as a child, or as a young adult. I'm like, Oh, my gosh, I'm never gonna heal from this stuff. It's not possible. Like, you go to different meetings and different things. And you see, it's a 40 year struggle. And I think that terrified me. So I would also say, it will get better to not worry. But yeah, I would definitely teach about the subconscious mind as soon as possible, because it really gives us a lot of the power to take our lives back from whatever pain we're coming from. Absolutely.

41:59  
And let's say that you had the magic wand, and you could wave it and turn something in the world, anything in the world as it is today. What would you change?

42:11  
I would say, I mean, I would probably, honestly not to be like a broken record. But I probably teach people that they can heal through their subconscious first, because I think, I think in our nature, we're very good. And I think that trauma builds up. And I think that we lose touch with that sometimes with the more trauma we have in the especially people who don't get exposed to like the opportunities for healing and things like that. So I think if people have the right tools, and the right hope we would all move in a in a much better direction. But I think there's this, there's this quote that I've always loved. And it says, He who hates evil, only creates another one. And I think we go through life, and we see things we don't like, and we judge it and we get mad at it. And we and all we're doing is creating more of what we don't want. And so you know, I really believe we either move towards the the problem, or we move towards the solution. And when we can before what we do want, instead of against what we don't want, it's really powerful for shifting. And so I would also put that in there somewhere, so that people can have access to maybe that point of awareness and start shifting in a different direction collectively, as a result, maybe I agree 100%,

43:17  
I will say amen to that. Take our energy from what we don't want and put it towards what we want. And it's off topic, but especially in these times that we live in now it's let's put our energy away from the

43:33  
chaos that is happening and put it into words we would like to happen instead. And that is

43:42  
emerging from this conversation that we had, if you were to give to the listener one action of life items, something that he or she can take away, straight away or tomorrow morning and implement and make an improvement in your life. What would you say?

43:59  
I would say, you know, obviously, you can have all the tools that we talked about from like that knowing your attachment style and doing the reprogramming one of the tools we've discussed. But I would say there's just one simple thing. I would say learn to be compassionate to yourself in your internal dialogue. I think that that is such an important part of healing, because we really go through when we beat ourselves up. And you know, a lot of our internal dialogue is basically our internalised, you know, punishment reward system from our parents. Like if we had a parent who was really critical, we're all critical we we usually take in the voices around us that were in the most negative forums garius times and internalise that, and that becomes our dialogue in relationship to self. And that acts as a tremendous barrier to healing. And we know what thoughts produce emotions and then actions and so we can really just by like practising being compassionate. And inquiring This is the other thing is and I won't go on too much of a tangent here, but like, people when they're beating themselves up, they don't get to look at the root cause of why they made the mistake to begin with because they're so busy telling themselves they're so bad and there's a lot Instead of being curious, what was going on inside of me, that led me to make the mistake, and how can I target that and deal with things at the root. And so being compassionate and being able to enquire and be curious about why we do things wrong, or why we make mistakes, not only helps us move towards a solution much more quickly, but it stops that that ongoing barrier from healing when we learn to be gentle and kind to ourselves.

45:24  
I like that very much learn to be compassionate in your to yourself in your internal dialogue. And I'm sure many of us can relate to the opposite, and make an effort to change it. Where would you direct people who want to find out more about your voice.

45:43  
So I have a YouTube channel, and I put free content there every single day. So we do a daily video, and it's personal development, school, dash, tyese Gibson, we talk about all kinds of stuff like this on there. And then the other big place is on the website. So www dot personal development, school calm and that has like, a list of all the stuff that we have going on in there. And it's an exciting little place. And the last place to is on Instagram, it's at personal development underscore school.

46:13  
Amazing. And that is that a very interesting test that you've ever saw. on your website,

46:19  
we have an attachment on the website, if you want to learn your attachment style, you can take the test.

46:24  
Everyone loves taking a test, like a test like that. It's I think, I think they do anyway. I know it's it's such a big topic, and we touched upon a little bit here and there. Is there anything that you were really hoping that would be brought up? And we completely skipped it today?

46:50  
Honestly, no, this is wonderful. You know, those are all the key points I think are so important from what we discussed. And I guess I could say one last little golden nugget is, um, you know, when when you are looking to heal as well, just one other really powerful shift mindset shifter is looking at what were my greatest unmet needs from childhood? And how do I keep not meeting those things in the relationship to myself now, because we get trauma and those imprints through the things we don't want that happens. So that criticism, for example, creates an imprint, but also the absence of things can be traumatic, the absence of emotional nurturing the absence of care and connection, and still constitute as a form of trauma. And I would just say that it's very valuable for people to look at what are my greatest unmet needs? And you know, maybe we see, for example, dismissive avoidant, they were emotionally neglected, and what do they do their whole lives, they are the greatest neglect of their own emotion. So we often are carrying those things out on autopilot. And that's actually how trauma stays alive. It can't stay alive within us. And we're not in a state of retraumatization in relationship to self. So a little important, maybe point in there as well. But that's it. That's all I have.

48:02  
Certainly is plenty, plenty more and loads of depth. It is I want to thank you very much for this fascinating conversation I had with you today. I learned a lot. And I'm sure that the listeners found very much. So valuing what we discussed. I want to wish you all the very best with your life and your mission in helping others. Any last parting words?

48:29  
No, just thank you so much. I've really enjoyed this and you're so wonderful and have such fantastic question though. Thank you so much.

48:39  
Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe and rate it on Apple podcasts. And also share this episode with someone who you think will benefit from it. If you want to find out more about what I do and gain access to exclusive content, join my facebook group but for development mastery. The link is in the show notes or you can simply type beat dot L y slash PDM group and until next time, stand out don't fit in

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