#156 The fundamental shifts of our very identity, looking at our limiting beliefs, and dealing with self sabotage, with Rob Scott [abridged re-release].

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Episode Transcript

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0:02  
Welcome to the personal development mastery Podcast. I am Agi Keramidas. And my mission is to inspire you to grow, stand out and take action towards the next level of your life. I interview leaders, authors, successful entrepreneurs, spiritual teachers, exceptional people who will inspire you to improve your life. Tune in for two episodes each week and make sure you subscribe to get them as soon as they are. Welcome to personal development mastery podcast for this episode, and the next two ones. I'm going to revisit three interviews that I did in the early days of the podcast. These three interviews were quite long. And at that time, I had split them into two parts each. I decided to revisit them and repost them again because I believe they were conversation with very deep and useful messages inside. And I realised that especially if you have discovered the podcast recently, it's not easy to go back and check over 150 episodes, topic, these three specific interviews that I think and I hope that you will benefit from especially if the topic interests you. So I have a breached or condensed these three conversations. And I'm presenting them in a more concise format, over the send the following two episodes of the podcast and I really hope that you enjoy them and get value out of them. The first conversation is with Rob Scott. It happened in June 2020, and was originally featured on episode 37 and 38. Rob Scott is a master level mindset coach who has been running his personal development business for over a decade now and has helped 1000s of people shift their identity and dramatically break through the limitations. Having thought for companies like mind Valley, his mission is to end suffering on planet Earth. And he teaches the powerful and profound mindsets that people need to achieve success, happiness and fulfilment. I hope you enjoy the conversation and Rob's profound methods. I wanted to start with some elements of your story, which obviously is definitely sparks conversation interest, it's a truly fascinating story. So I want to start by asking you to take us back and paint the picture of some of the background that actually led you to where you are today.

2:50  
Yeah, I think a lot of people, you know, let's assume for a second that I'm actually Okay, at what I do, right. Like, if I have any level of really being able to help people today, some people make an assumption about that, that maybe I always had it together, or I always, you know, came from some life that was, you know, really together. And it's actually very much the opposite. I came from maybe, you know, as close to the maximum of dysfunction that you can have, without, without dying, maybe, you know, I had a lot of people around me that actually died. And were that sort of began for me was at a very young age, I went through a lot of really deep and very ugly abuse and dysfunction, not to overshare. But I was I was sexually abused. I was actually raped for years by someone that was a babysitter that my parents would leave me with for periods of time. And that went on for maybe the age of around three to around eight or nine. And I ended up getting, you know, I just I never felt safe. I never felt, you know, loved i didn't i didn't get the normal emotional development that a child you would hope would get right. And so through that I started to use drugs and alcohol at an obscenely early age. So think about a seven year old starting to play with pretty heavy drugs. I started to use alcohol consistently. I you know, by the time I was into my teens in my early 20s, I was deeply addicted to very heavy drugs. And just, you know, partying is not really the word but just you know, really was a was a drug addict and an alcoholic very, very early. And so I ended up having that be, you know, into jails and institutions and rehabs and halfway houses and, you know, all the institutions that you can end up in, I had the fun experience of going in and out of and you know, all the different ways. And then, you know, ended up homeless, I was just living in my car and then living without a car for a long time. And so Along the way, my business is now called fundamental shift, I had this really,

5:06  
honestly, it was a self transcendent experience of really deep transformation. And I was actually working on that. I mean, I was in a deep self inquiry of what are we doing here? What's the point of this? You know, I had, I had really bad personal lenses and ideas about the world that were, you know, really holding me back in profound ways. And in some ways, those became obvious to me, and in a moment in sort of a breakthrough. And so what I discovered way back when was, if I were to put even some of those down, I started to have much higher function in the world, right? If I could put down this lens of I'm a victim, and actually just come at the world with a blank slate, I was able to really perform differently. And so I actually went from homeless, to Vice President of technology without any career degrees, or any certifications of any kind. But just by performing well, in just a handful of years. To go further in the story, though, even during that, you know, a sense of success, whatever that might be, I got really sick with cancer as well. So by the end of this, I'm, I'm through cancer. Luckily, I was, you know, I survived that. But I end up at the end of that, and I'm, I know what it is to be deeply dysfunctional. Emotionally, I know what it is to be deeply dysfunctional. Physically, I know what it is to be deeply dysfunctional mentally. And I've made some significant changes in that. And so in around 2005, right, when podcasts started to come out, I started to share some of the these ideas like how do we consciously evolve? How do we change our self? What is hypnosis? what is meditation? What are these tools to gain some self mastery? And what is it to do personal development literally on yourself. And I was shocked, but there weren't too many people listening to podcasts back then. But the people that were many of them, were listening to me. And a lot of them literally all over the world started asking me for coaching. It was what's it cost to work with you? I'd love to talk to you, how do we, you know, do this. And so through that, I started to test out doing some coaching. And what I realised was, that was almost the thing that I had always been good at that even in the deep dysfunction of being a child, I was always trying to help people see things differently. And you know, there was some innate skill or ability or strategy, maybe a survival strategy that I developed, it was really helpful in helping people, not only shift mindset, shift behaviour, shift habits do different things like that. And it was probably the secret of the corporate success that I'd have. Because I was able to manage people well, and you know, get through conflicts and do all these different things. And so as soon as I saw how special that was, and how meaningful that was, I was really calling to help other people, in a big way. And so I never looked back, I think it was probably 2006 that I started my business. So it's been, you know, 14 plus years now that I've been solely working on helping people evolve. And I've developed this thing called identity shifting, which is, you know, really what I think is the most meaningful way to go in and take somebody through the transformation that's required to really, personally evolve into a profoundly different version of themselves.

8:12  
Apart from that fundamental shift, was there any other key defining moment in or turning point in your journey?

8:22  
There were probably many of them, that is, without a doubt, the most profound, you know, after that, I actually there were levels of my I'm now sober about 16 years, right? Just, I'm not, although I really love and appreciate the the path of 12 step programmes and all the areas that those exists. I'm not personally somebody who follows that I don't go to meetings, I sort of did this. In another way, I actually used a coach and a mentor and a counsellor who's deeply steeped in the steps that was really helpful to me. So it's, there's, it's not that there's no influence of that, but I don't really do meetings myself and that. But that was another big choice of mine, because I was actually very successful in the corporate world, I'd put down very heavy drugs and things I had my own, like limits about what I wouldn't, wouldn't do. But there was a time when I actually decided I'm actually going to not do anything I want to deal with consciousness directly. And that was, you know, another profound shift in my own commitment to what it is to you know, what it is to be alive, what it is to make meaning what it is to relate to, you know, the universe right and, and I didn't want to alter myself anymore, and I didn't want to use substances to escape painful things. I wanted to go through painful things and evolve from them and use the learnings and all that and that's a pretty big change as well.

9:51  
I think what you said about escape the word Escape is something that some people do not realise so many people Drink socially or drink, you know, they don't, they're not heavy drinkers, yet they drink frequently. It's only if they stop for a period of time I can speak by my own personal experience when I did that challenge, a six month alcohol free challenge. And I realised very quickly after a month or two that that easy way out of a negative emotional situation was not there anymore. So I had to face it. And that gave me some big realisations.

10:31  
Totally I and I don't, I'm not sitting here telling anybody to be sober. Right? It's, it's if you I think people can use alcohol and different things very successfully. Right? There's, there's a great place for that for some people. I think that addiction in general, can be expanded out into when our mind gets captured by some hyper stimulus that puts us not only chemically but emotionally and otherwise out of balance. And so I think we're seeing that to some degree with our digital experience these days, right, we get this addiction to sort of scrolling on Instagram, or to feeling differently by the next, you know, little hit that we get from the next picture, the next picture, the next picture, and we're noticing that our time, where if we really were in our highest version of self, we might be creating or doing something that was, you know, good for us, we end up just escaping and trying to feel differently, whether we're even fully conscious of it or not. But you know, you sort of wake up and go, Wow, it's three hours later, and I've just been rolling through Tick Tock or whatever, right? It's, it becomes a thing where we're getting captured by something. And I think that concept of hyper stimulus is really important. I heard it from a guy named Daniel shmotkin Berger, who is a phenomenal thinker. He points out that all addiction is really around where we're we pull out what in its natural state might be really sustaining and good. But we pull it out into its most potent form, and it becomes a hyper stimulus. So if you think about, you know, natural fruits and things that have sugars that are very good in their balance in nature, we pull out the sugar and we put it into a pile and we just eat the sugar and it's over stimulates the body, right? We do that with fats as well, we do that with, you know, cocaine, if you were to just chew on a cocaine leaf, it may not be the worst thing in the world for you, it might give you focus on whatever. But if you pull it out, and you do lines of cocaine, it's a hyper stimulus, and it over saturates dopamine, and it gets the brain into a really hyper critical state. And again, to whatever degree this can begin to happen with the technology that we're doing and all the other things. So I think we're watching a culture and a world that's becoming more addicted without noticing it in a lot of directions where it's not okay to just actually be right, it's actually and so we need these stimuluses like you were saying alcohol to feel, quote, unquote, normal or to feel okay with what is. And that is where it's beginning to get out of balance. And so back to my choice with that, it was obvious to me that I was using it to feel differently and to manage certain things that were uncomfortable. And I didn't want to do that I wanted to be okay. Without anything, I wanted to see if I could, you know, do that. And it's been a deeply meaningful, very rewarding choice in my life.

13:14  
And let's go back to that fundamental shift. You you've described it as a self transcending experience, that changed the everything in your life a turning point. Was that instant? Or did you take a period of time?

13:36  
I think, I think change I don't want to say always, but I think change actually happens instantaneously. But the work up to it. Right? That the shift is a is a real switch very often. But man, you know, mastery is often not like that mastery is getting better at something over time. But, you know, I often say that, if you bring somebody to me who's depressed, I can actually change their state and make them happy in an instant. But I can't make them concert pianist, I can't make them billionaire, right? Those things take mastery and development over time, right. So there's, I call it wake up, and there's grow up, right. So you can wake up in this moment, but then to apply that over time, you really need to grow up and you need to apply it in all its ways. And you know, that's a game of time. But the wake up is, is is and can be instant. As far as that self transcendence. I can I give that a model. I want to like actually talk about that. So the name of your podcast is personal development, mastery, right? If we talk about what it is to personally develop, I think that the most profound version of that what I've chosen to call that is identity shifting, right? It's literally becoming a profoundly different version of yourself in some way. And I think that there are levels of doing that. And the first one is a sense of self mastery, right? And the the, the next level would be some sense of self actualization. And then the next level of that maybe the highest level, that would be some sense of a self transcendence. And so rather than defining each of those with like exact terms, because they're big terms and all that, it's maybe more useful to sort of figure out what each of those means. And like what we're pointing to, so that we can just at least understand them. So if we talk about self mastery, I would say that that's some degree of self control, and some degree of being able to overcome your unconscious habits, maybe some of your unconscious biases, maybe some of your impulses that are more instant gratification based, instead of delayed gratification based, right. I think that distinction is really important, because there's a version of you that you want to be, that's going to require that you delay gratification and don't always do the immediate, interesting thing, right? The immediate interesting thing is that sugar is that, that drink of alcohol, or that I'm gonna watch TV right now, or I'm just gonna eat food on the couch and be comfortable right now. I love comfort right now, like, let's not, you know, that's a great thing. But when it's at the cost of who you can become, and what you're really trying to move toward self mastery is some version of having more control over yourself, so that you can start to apply yourself in the areas that matter. If we get into self actualization. What I mean by that, or what I'm trying to point that toward is that then you're using some form of that self mastery to actualize some potential in the things that matter most to you. Right, so let's say you want to be a business owner, well, self actualizing, and that is actually becoming a business owner that's talented at that, right, so that even if your business was taken away, you didn't just get lucky, you could go build another business, like you, you actually have the skills and the ability and the self mastery to actualize that potential, if you're trying to be an athlete, it's not just the desire of being an athlete, but you've actualized in something, you've actually become something in that. And then I think the thing that is even beyond a lot of that is, is a quality of self transcendence. And so if if what I mean by self transcendence, and what that might be pointing toward, is that you're not only you, you're not only a sense of self, right? If the only focus that we have is always about me, that's actually a little narcissistic, right? That that's spiritually, there's an idea of like, putting down the self and actually just being in consciousness without maybe even an ego in that moment, right. And so there are parts of self that if we can't objectify them and get away from them, they're actually really hard to change, if we're in them, right, so, so getting some sense of Trump's self transcendence. And to make that even clearer, some of the parts that matter the most is the we space, right? So like you and I being here, if I'm really going to listen to you, I have to put down myself to some degree to try to model what you mean, right. So if I'm doing that, literally just in that moment of if I'm genuinely trying to listen to you, I've put down myself, I've transcended myself, in some sense. And so I'm, I'm actually trying to model what you are. So as we grow the we space, how we govern how we build companies, how we run families, how we parent, there's this idea of the capability of being able to transcend self or get beyond egoic. me right in some meaningful way. So if we go back to what happened to me, I actually almost did it in the wrong direction, I had this big transcendent experience. But I didn't really have a great sense of self mastery yet. And I certainly hadn't actualized in any directions yet, right. So as I had this transcendent kind of thing, it was like I had this almost big spiritual awakening or some real seeing that was deeply meaningful to me. But if I go back to it, it was messy for me, like it was hard work to then figure it out from there. So as I coach on this, the first steps of this are dealing in the space of self mastery, on some level, like, do you have the capability from where you are to overcome your own limits? In some significant way? Can you begin to make the moves that are the better choices, and manage your state of self, really, towards some meaningful self actualization for yourself, while building the capability to put down yourself when that's appropriate, and actually begin those tools of self transcendence as well. And when you put those three things together, you really can become this profoundly different version of yourself that's optimised in a lot of ways that are deeply meaningful.

19:30  
And let me ask you, since you mentioned the term of spiritual or what does that term mean to your spirituality? Yeah,

19:41  
it's it's, it's a great question. And it's something that I want to make tangible for people because I think there's a lot of woo around this beliefs might be a really interesting place to get into because there's a there's a tangible way to talk about beliefs. I'm not talking about believing in something. I'm not talking about anything like that, to me. The spiritual is almost the the ground level of just being right. It's, it's if you can actually take on a position, that just being alive is pretty darn Amazing, right? You've actually accomplished quite a bit right that this is the difference between a self that is captured in time. And I'm not there yet. I'm not enough, this isn't enough, I have to get to somewhere else, right? A quality of bringing spirituality into the moment is a deep appreciation, which may look in tangible terms more like being grateful, or being present, or being able to put down thought, like there's a deep difference between thinking and experiencing, actually different parts of the brain light up. And so many of us are just caught in thought all the time, we actually don't know how to turn off thought, we don't know, what is thought, what isn't thought we think a lot of our thoughts are real things. So when we worry about something, it feels very real. And we get very activated by it. But it's only a thought. And so things like meditation and things like that, that can give you a sense of what the difference is between what a thought is what that impulse is, which is very instant gratification, right? If a thought wants to be chased and followed, it's like this is important pay attention. But a spiritual move there is noticing, oh, that's a thought having the ground of knowing. I'm something that's thinking right now. And there's also experience of my breath of the ground. And so to make that a little bit more tangible, to people are walking down the hall, one is deeply lost in thought and worried about their taxes, or what somebody thinks of them, or what's going on and all that, that is not very spiritual, that is much more human. Right, somebody else is very present. And every step on the ground is beautiful. Every breath is is you know, just embodied and really pleasant and amazing. That is an expression of being spiritual you're connected to is this and being much more profoundly.

21:59  
I like very much the way you you describe it, it's,

22:03  
and by the way, those are skills, right? Those are not things to believe in, or hope for or wish about. If you're doing that, that's just more thinking, that's just more modelling of maybe one day I'll get there, right, maybe one of the biggest problems with Buddhism is, is if somebody studies something like that, whether it's Taoism or Buddhism, or whatever, that there's some enlightened place to get to, that's away from here. That's exactly the opposite expression of actually being enlightened, which is just being here, right being right where you are. And by the way, that's not always pleasant, right? If you're anxious, the spiritual move is literally just to be anxious, right? There's truly an energy in your chest, there's your breathing is heavy, right, but not changing it and being with it being conscious of what is, is is the spiritual move in that moment, right? If we can just use the term spiritual to try to describe that. I think that's what a deep sense of spirituality can look like. That's great. Thank you. Yeah.

23:05  
Something you say about identities. And you say that there is a core problem that humanity has, which is the limit of our current identity, the identities that we hold, can you expand on this?

23:20  
Yeah, I mean, it depends on where you pull that from. And oftentimes, if you if you pull a certain tidbit, it's it's, it's maybe not always, right, yeah. So let's say that if your sense of self is not sound, it's going to be a deep limiter, it is the thing that needs to shift before other things are going to shift for you. Okay, so if you are, let's say you have a lot of limiting beliefs that you can't see about yourself, but they're in your sense of self. So things like I'm not enough, I'll never succeed, I'm actually not a beautiful person. I'm not popular, I'm not good with people, right? These are, what I would call limiting beliefs that we take on and they feel true to us. So I would say that they make up a sense of self that is now going in the world. And so if you're trying to become good at sales, but you think that, you know, I'm not deserving of money, right? You're going to limit yourself without even knowing it, right? So you end up with these invisible to you limits, in your sense of self. That is the core limiting factor. So I would say that much coaching out there, maybe maybe most coaching is incomplete in the fact that it's often very skills based, right? So you might go to a nutrition coach to learn a diet technique and a plan, which is great, and maybe it's exactly right. But if you put that on top of a self that is not capable of change or growth is maybe set to you know, I'm not good at this or I'm never going to be healthy or I'm not athletic. Whatever those sense of self is, if you're just putting that skill on top of something that's going to self sabotage its way out, you're going to need other coaching, or you're going to need to follow up, or you're going to need to do whatever. Yeah, in the world, even of therapy therapy is often very emotionally based, which is deeply important. But it's, it's not very skills based, right? It doesn't, it doesn't give you the skills out here. So what's at the centre of all of your desires, and also all of your limits and problems is you right, the common denominator underneath is you. So if you're not shifting yourself to get over your own biases, and limits and things like that, any skills that you add on top are on this sort of weak foundation of of you to begin with. So that's, I guess what I mean by core problem in this in a sense of identity that's not doesn't have master actualization, or doesn't have a quality of being able to transcend the ego and self in any way.

25:57  
Would you say that, apart from, you know, a collection of beliefs or a bunch of beliefs? Is there anything else to identity apart from the beliefs we hold?

26:07  
Yeah, I mean, identity, again, is something that we can maybe say it's very vast in all the ways that we could talk about what it is, I think that if I were to simplify it down for this conversation you have in the realm of thinking that let's think about it this way, if you're going to change who you are, in a profound way, you're going to need to think different thoughts? For sure, right? If you just keep thinking, your same pattern of thinking, and you don't gain any mastery, and being able to change your attention, and how you think that's going to be a problem, you need to deeply change how you feel about things, you're going to need to grow in some emotional mastery sense, because honestly, if let's say you're depressed, even if I were to add millions of dollars to your bank account, and make you really successful, if you still feel depressed, what's it really worth, it's not the point, the reason we want the money is we want to feel differently, we want to feel secure, and proud and happy, and all those things. And then we also want some mastery over doing right, we want to do meaningful things, we want to be able to apply ourselves to the tasks at hand that matter to us and succeed through them. So thinking feeling and doing if all of those can change, right? Then we're really a different person, right? Then we've really grown and change. And we do this all the time, you don't think the same things that you thought when you were five, right? I, some people do get stuck. And maybe they think very much similarly to how they thought when they were 20. But if you're growing and changing, you'll notice that you're probably changing how you think you're learning, you're seeing different things you're taking on new stuff. But in the realm of thinking, there's not only these conscious tools that we've talked about tools of being able to focus your attention and all that stuff, maybe changing the meaning of something, right? If I see somebody who looks at me funny, and I noticed that I think it means that they don't like me, consciously, maybe I can change, I can change the meaning of that, right? I can change what that means. And that's very meaningful. And that's a conscious tool, right? So there's a set of conscious tools, how we can change our conscious thinking that are profoundly helpful. But we've also talked about these unconscious patterns, right? This is changing thought, but doing in a way that's addressing the parts of ourselves that we can't see. And if we if we talk about the unconscious, right, you're making your heartbeat right now. But you're not consciously aware of how like if I said, Hey, stop your heartbeat right now, you you couldn't if you wanted to, right. So there are processes that are going on, outside of our conscious awareness. And many of these are things that we take on about ourselves, these limits, that when we take them on, they're usually protective, and really helpful when we take them on. But they end up limiting us later, right? We end up over correcting because somebody embarrassed us or we had an abusive parent or, you know, a friend was mean to us at middle school or whatever happened along the way. We take on things again, like I'm not enough, or I'm not really I don't deserve money, or even things like rich people are jerks, right? A lot of people think rich people are jerks, but they really want money. How are they going to resolve that right? Your subconscious mind isn't going to let you become something that you detest. So you have to change your unconscious patterns, about money. And about you know, I've worked with very overweight people and if you try to add willpower to a diet and exercise that's going to be very difficult and almost everybody fails at that. But if you go in and change them at an identity level into I am an athlete, right? Well, if they really take that on sincerely in their unconscious, an athlete works out an athlete feeds himself well an athlete does things and even if they're horribly overweight presently, them taking on I am an athlete doesn't require willpower, the right behaviours and the right things start to happen, because they've shifted that unconscious mind. So in the thinking realm, you have this unconscious world that needs to be addressed. You've got conscious tools that need to be addressed, and then out in The emotional space, there's some meaningful shifts to gain emotional mastery. And then in the doing space, there's some things with purpose and focus and different things like that, that help you in the doing space. So if I were to break down identity, it's got all those parts, right? Hi,

30:17  
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32:18  
Yeah. Can I like and I can say more about that real quick. Yeah, so a way to illustrate that is your conscious mind gaining mastery of your own attention. You really can get past suffering to a great degree with that. And so let me let me define suffering really quickly. And then I'll try and backtrack to this really fast. If I were to simplify suffering down to maybe the most elegant way to say it that I know of is suffering is resisting what is okay? So any kind of suffering physical, emotional, mental suffering is something is occurring. And my sense of being doesn't like it. And so I deeply resist it, right? So think of a child who doesn't get their way. I can't watch my show, right? The reality is, they're not going to be able to watch their show, but they can't accept it. And so there's deep suffering, right? If I get punched in the arm, there's a sensation and what I might call pain. I'm not saying we need to get rid of pain pains, deeply important, but my suffering about the pain, I have options with that I can go in and be curious about what the tingling in my arm feels like, if I were a trained Marine, it might be no big deal. But if I were a really afraid person, a punch might be devastating to me like it could, it could traumatise me for my life, right? So there's a whole scale of suffering that can happen in there. So let's say we gain the conscious tools to manage suffering, so that I'm truly at peace in a great way, right? Well, I'll switch gears and talk about a quality of humans that's maybe unique, right? We're the only people that you can literally sit in a white room with no stimulus at all. And through our own mind through that imagination that I talked about before we could literally put ourselves into a panic, right, with no stimulus at all, no real problems happening at all, I could just get depressed by my meaning making that I'm doing right I could make meaning that makes me anxious or makes me depressed or makes me happy, right? I have a lot of ability to affect what I'm doing just in my own meaning making even if nothing is happening, okay? So let's say that I'm in that weight room, and I'm a master at this. It's fantastic. Thoughts are still going to pop up even with no stimulus stimulus affects you. Right? If you're in a bad situation, and you've got an abusive person in your life, that will affect your thinking that will affect your suffering to whatever degree and so there are doing things in the world to get away from those. But let's say we've even mastered that. Now I'm in the weight room. Nothing's happening to me. Thoughts are still popping up. Where are they coming from? Right? They're coming from the unconscious mind. Okay? So even if I've got total mastery of my conscious mind, theoretically, if I have bad patterns, That are popping up, I'm not enough, you're never going to be good. Nobody likes you, whatever. If those are the thoughts that are coming up, I can maybe even deal with them once they're conscious, and go, No, no, no, no, I can change the meaning of that I can change the meaning of that. But how exhausting would that be? If you have this horrible set of patterns, right. And so that's why both of these really matter, right? You've got again, these conscious tools. But if you don't address those patterns that are coming up, it's very difficult. And so a lot of people talk about the subconscious. It's like, Well, you can't see the unconscious, what could you possibly do about it, we can't see the unconscious yourself, because it's truly outside of consciousness to you. But you can see the effects of it, you can see that you continually procrastinate, you can see that, you know, in a Shadow Work kind of way, you can see that, well, I keep seeing that everybody's angry at me. But people are telling me that they're not angry, like that might be coming from me, right? There are hints of what's happening there that you can find, to go back and actually repattern many of those things and ultimately give you an unconscious that serving up wonderful useful things, right? If the if the thoughts that are on autopilot, are useful and helpful. That's amazing, right? Like, how great would that be, and then you have the conscious tools to deal with all the challenges that come up out here or otherwise, now you're optimised now you're truly a different version of yourself. Now you're, you know, deeply realised and actualized, etc. I'm

36:24  
talking about beliefs. I like very much the analogy that you mentioned at some point of the lens. And even though I had cleared of the lenses of the minds as metaphors for our beliefs, or our mindsets, there was something that really made an impression on me that the lens, by its own nature is not something that you pay attention to it, you look through it. Yeah, but you don't look at it show it's, it goes it our beliefs, or this us holding my lenses now as an analogy, allow us to, or paint or tint our perception, but you don't really see the lens at all, we just see past the lens.

37:10  
Yeah, so so it's the way I usually share that is that there's two functions of a lens. And most of us are only aware of one of them, right? So and I literally just start from the very beginning of what I'm talking about lenses, like your glasses, right? Like you're holding on to contact lenses. If people don't wear glasses, they've certainly looked through a microscope or a telescope, right? The function of a lens that we're all aware of is it alters what we see. Right? It changes what we see. And the right lens can alter it in a way that's really helpful, right? My glasses are definitely a big help to me. But if I were to just put randomly any glasses on, or I were to put many glasses on, right, all of a sudden, I can't see very well right? Now. That's interesting, right? So lenses alter what we see, that's a really important concept to get. The second concept that most people don't think about is that lenses are built to be invisible, right, they're not built to be considered, they're actually built to be looked through and kind of forgotten, right. So while I'm wearing my glasses, I don't really consider my glasses ever I just be about through the world dealing with this altered thing. So much so that if I wore rose coloured glasses, quite literally, and the beginning, I might notice that it's different, but eventually that would become normalised to me like it just I wouldn't consider that the world was any other way. And in fact, if I really didn't know, I was wearing rose coloured glasses. I wouldn't know any other colours other than, you know, the rose tint, but I'm looking through. Well, the analogy is that our beliefs and our thinking is very much like that, right? our thoughts and our beliefs alter our perception in a in a deeply meaningful way. But they too are built to be invisible. Right? We take them on to be the truth of the situation. So if I take on a belief about politics, right, and I and I don't know, I can't see that. It's my belief, I'm actually looking through the lens of it. I only see the truth of that perspective, right. And so if that's a limit, like I'm not enough, or I don't like money, or whatever those things are, I'm now being altered by that, but I'm not considering it as only a certain lens that I could be wearing. It seems like true, just like this seems like my real vision once I forget about my glasses, right? So the fundamental shift is to actually be able to take off the lenses, the beliefs that you're holding, that are holding you back, and actually look at them and shine them up or throw them away put on better ones, like get to the right lenses that are the most useful that most helpful to you, that are not delusional that don't get you to a place that's like, you know, saying I am a millionaire I'm a millionaire. I'm a millionaire, when you're not is delusional. That's not helpful. But saying, I love growing my money and I love you know, showing up so that I can make money might be really useful. Right? So what's the right lens, the important lens to put on? So it's not just about any old affirmation. It's about taking on and really taking in to your sense of self and your beliefs. The right lenses that are good And ultimately growing the meta skill of being able to see lenses. So back to glasses for a second, I would consider these lenses as soon as there was raindrops on them, right, that would make me aware of my lenses, and I'd have to take them off and clean them to put them back on. Or if I had scratches in my lenses, I would know that I would have to go get new glasses, right. But with our beliefs, because they're so hard to see, we often don't, we don't notice the scratches and we end up with really messed up glasses that we're looking through on the world. And through that we self sabotage, we hold ourselves back, we live very limited, sheltered, often very safe lives. But the world isn't as dangerous in the same ways that it used to be. So we've taken on all these safety protection mechanisms that are really holding us back to what's deeply possible for us.

40:48  
I liked very much, you mentioned the contact lenses, and it's it's probably a different level all together because we say the lens of the glasses. Yes, normally you're not aware of it. But at some point, you might see the rim or something like that.

41:03  
Or it might bump into something right? Yeah, you lay down on a pillow and all of a sudden you're like, oh, I've got glasses on right you forget and then contact lenses.

41:10  
You really goes completely without you realising it's correct.

41:17  
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, sure. I mean, imagine LASIK surgery, that's good enough that you leave and you're happy with it. But it's not perfect. Right. But you think that's that's how the best seeing is? To be better, right? Yeah.

41:30  
Yeah. So I suppose then, if we want to change our lenses or limiting beliefs, in that sense, the first thing to do is to identify that we actually are wearing lenses that they do not serve us. And then yeah,

41:45  
from that awareness itself can be curative. Right? So So sometimes, if you can see the lens, that alone breaks the spell of it, right. So that that is helpful, right. So just getting an oftentimes, because they're invisible to us. This is why you sometimes need a coach or a therapist or somebody like that to help you identify, what am I not seeing here? Like, what am I not getting, and sometimes just a laser coach can come in and go, Hey, man, like boop, boop, boop, or, Hey, lady, here's what's happening for you, and you go, Ah, you know, and then it never has that same effect. Now, many of them are so deep, especially the ones down at the identity level, that just seeing them, it's, we actually need to go do some work, we need to actually change them in a little bit deeper way. And that's where some of these tools, like we've mentioned, Shadow Work, you know, timeline therapy, doing things like story casting, you know, things like that are very powerful to shift profound limiting beliefs. But yeah, without doing that, you're left limited in ways that are, you're blind to, right that are that are holding back, which is maybe a little scary for some, but it also I hope is is really exciting, right? Because there's, there's a more idealised version of you. That's possible, right? There's that there's a version of you that can be more universally confident, more universally, ready to take action, more focused, more happy, you know, has emotional mastery that, you know, these persistent anxieties and worries and things that make us sad, can really be transcended, in a profound way. So that your base level way of being is just way more ideal at

43:29  
your experience. How easy is it to dispose of limiting beliefs that really hold someone down?

43:40  
Very, very much quicker than you would think. And so, you know, one of my one of my problems with some of therapy is that you end up in a long story, where you've identified the lens, you know, well, that's because your mom did that when you were five. And so now the conversation moves because the therapist is also human. And, you know, you end up in this long conversation about every week how that one limit from when you were five years old, is still affecting you today. Well, I'll say it again. That's why that's why that's why. So identifying it can be transformative, and that that is important. And that is the first step. But then getting behind beyond it actually putting it down, actually creating a new reality for yourself. Now, where that is no longer true for you, is the real transformation, right? That's the thing where it's no longer interesting to even carry it because it happened in the past. It's done. We're now done with it. And now it no longer is relevant in the same way. In fact, now I've taken on a new way of being that's profoundly different. And that's the real transformative move. That can be done very quickly. Right. So in my I have a mastermind programme that I do with a small group of people, and every single time between about week two and week three, everybody has this collective Kind of awareness of this is ridiculous. Why have I been carrying this? And there's a freedom that comes with that. It is a permanent shift, right? And so it literally is about a week or two, but really only like one or two sessions where we can really get through those we can find them and meaningfully get past them. And then is the part of putting in the new ones, which really only takes another, you know, week or two, honestly. Awesome. Yeah,

45:28  
I remember something you said earlier about waking up and growing up, correct. Yeah.

45:33  
So So think about that the wake up is seeing them as a form of wakeup, transforming them into the new thing is, is waking up also, right? It's installing that new thing, and then grow up is then applying that in your life meaningfully in all the directions, right. So now that you're not afraid to give public talks, because we've gotten rid of that phobia? How do we then go apply that so you can go do big talks, actually, in the world, it's not just about well, now I'm not afraid of it if it ever comes up. But if it's important to you to go share some message, let's get you on stages, right. And so that's going to take time, you have to find the stage, you have to get the people you got to do the things, right. That's the grow up. And what you'll find if you do that and apply that, three months later, six months later, 10 years later, you've now become, you know, a deeply different person, but it was sourced in that change that was in the wake up. Yeah, yeah.

46:25  
Rob, let me ask you something else. You mentioned earlier, self sabotaging show. Give me your thoughts on why do people self sabotage? And how can they stop?

46:41  
I think we've been talking a lot about how they can stop. And we'll we'll come back to that in a second. I think one of the reasons that we self sabotage is that it is a comfort level. Let's let's really say that it's it's so I think that we end up in a comfort zone, right? A lot of people talk about, you know, like a thermostat on a wall that we end up with I'm, I can be this happy and only be this sad. And if I hit those limits, I go here. What I like to tell people is that your comfort zone is often not very comfortable, right? It's actually it's actually you're dying to get out of it. But it's not comfortable to get out of it. And that's because it's not really about comfort. It's more about familiarity. Okay, so what is familiar to you what you're used to, is actually what's really okay to your subconscious mind. So your subconscious mind is all about surviving. Right? It's not actually about being happy. It's about staying alive, for the most part. Right? And so what it's done before, what is normal and has been Okay, before, what I woke up today and did yesterday, doing what I did yesterday, habitually, is okay to do again, that is the default pattern. Right. So this is why breaking habits is difficult, because to our unconscious mind, that change is potentially dangerous, because it's unknown to us. Right. So self sabotage quite often is I have this big dream of what I'd like to be. But it's so different than what I am now that it's uncomfortable, it's unfamiliar, it's different to do that. So my system, my sense of self will find ways outside of my conscious mind, to sabotage back into what I'm normally comfortable with, right? So this amount of money, this amount of friends, this amount of business success, this amount of whatever, is what we will self sabotage back into. So many times, you'll know it like let's say, you're a business owner, you know that there's these 10 calls that you should make, to go get these big sales, but you find ways to just be busy again, today up this, I had to, you know, rearrange this one drawer in my kitchen, or today, I actually should do taxes or whatever, if as a coach, if you came in and talk to them three months later be like, did you ever make those 10 calls? Oh, no, I never got to that whatever. That's an unconscious form of self sabotage. That's normalising us to stay playing small to stay playing safe. Because things like tall poppy syndrome and whatnot, we get scared, if I'm too big, I might get chopped down. This comes from lots of things. It comes from, you know, everything from, you know, really aggressive abuse, to actually just, sometimes when we get better than our familial situation, you know, our parents might say, oh, okay, rich guy, or whatever, and kind of shame us back down. Because it's hard to escape the gravity of what your familial level of success is. If you have a group of friends and all of a sudden, you become much more successful than your friends, they start to look at you and go, Hey, what's going on with you, or if you really get in shape, but all your friends are still really out of shape. They'll start maybe mocking, okay, sexy guy, whatever, you know, and those things become difficult. So there's to have the confidence that it takes to be new and be different. There's all these different reasons why we shrink and why we do this because it's safer because it it doesn't make us stand out. It doesn't make us take on any kind of criticism, and with what we see online now some of that criticism can be so loud and from so many directions of strangers online, that if I put out anything online, you know, the bad comments that might come in just from trolls or, or, you know, some bot out there, that's just being mean, because somebody wrote a programme to do it, it ends up hurting our sense of self. And so that's scary. So it's easier to not do it, it's easier to not try. And if I could just survive and sustain, we end up self sabotaging into that lower level of being.

50:25  
That's a wonderful explanation of that. Thank you so much. So very insightful. Tell me one more thing, which we kind of touched upon it earlier on, and that was controlling impulses, in particular negative impulses, things that really do not serve us. What's your thoughts or your recommendation with with that?

50:52  
Yeah, so I think let's talk about it like instant gratification and delayed gratification again, right? That, that ability to grow your capability to be more for delayed gratification, some of the time, I think one of the meta skills to be able to do that, is to grow. It's also the medicine to get away from suffering, it's to be with what is right, if I can become a kind of person that consistently is more and more, okay, being with what is when it's pleasurable, that I can accept more pleasure, right that I have I grow capacity to wit with the good things, but I also grow the capacity to be with the bad things. Because if I'm trying to remain comfortable, right, comfort is almost not almost, it's often the enemy of exceptional, right? Because to do anything exceptional. We can imagine these great things, but the work to get there is often very uncomfortable. So we have to find a way to be able to be okay in the discomfort of something. And the ground experience of that is in the moment, can I be with what is that's uncomfortable? Can I be with my own nervousness? Can I be with a physical pain of working out a little bit longer to get a better workout in, you know, not to the degree that I'm hurting myself or putting myself in danger? But what is my capacity? You know, cold showers we know are very good for depression. But people are like cold showers are uncomfortable, I won't do them. Right? And it's like, okay, but what's your capacity to go, I can go get in a cold bath, or I can go get in a cold shower. Right? These are little ways. Wim Hof is a great guy that is pushing that cold coldness, right, a trigger. But that's just one form of can you be with discomfort in the moment, right. And the less that we can, the more that we're going to follow any impulse of thought, or any impulse of addiction or any impulse of Oh, that's going to lead to feeling better, right. And the more unconscious we are, the less conscious tools, we have to see where our attention is, and what we're actually doing in any moment, the less mastery, we're gonna have to have the wisdom to go, this is an uncomfort, I should be able to sit with a little bit longer, right, I don't want to do my taxes, I'd rather go watch Netflix, but I'm gonna stay in the discomfort for another 15 minutes or another five minutes, just to get a little further in my taxes. And what you'll find is, even if you just commit to five more minutes, you may find that once you're past that hump of resistance, you'll stay for half an hour 45 and get them done right, you'll see that it's it's way easier to stay. And then when you do that the payoff at the end is you actually feel really happy because you accomplished the thing that was difficult, right? So your sense of self, starts to grow your trust in yourself your ability to know that I have self mastery, right? This is one of those core functions of self mastery Can I do the difficult thing that is in the service of something that's really good for me, even though it's uncomfortable in the moment, and the more that we can grow that capacity, you will very quickly even the first small levels of it, you will see that it pays dividends, you start to go, I can stay with the dishes till they're done, I can organise these papers till they're done. Now you become the kind of person that if you're good at that, you can actually start to build a small business that's successful. If you can build a small business a successful you can build a bigger business as successful, you do that maybe you could actually be the mayor of a town or what you know, now you can actually start to influence bigger and bigger things around you because you've become agentic in a way, you know, you have agency over yourself where you're a really powerful person, right? But the beginning of that is can you manage that impulse control, to stay with something a little bit longer than you were before? Right.

54:40  
brings me back to what we said in the beginning of our conversation about stopping alcohol which is I realised that when I did my other my talents that it was an impulse when I wanted to have a drink. It was an impulse which if I resisted that we wouldn't last long. It will last maybe a few seconds. Maybe a minute, an intense thought. And then once I stayed with it, it would go away something

55:06  
else come to think of the flow, nothing else comes up, right? I mean, that's, that's a part of wisdom also is that, you know, oftentimes it feels like this is going to go on forever, right? But nothing goes on forever. The good things don't go on forever, the bad things don't go on forever. And so if you can, instead back up, and this is a little bit of self transcendence, right? So if we talk about that dimension of things, if you can back up from I'm not permanently anything, this isn't permanently anything, this thought is not going to persist forever, this great moment is not going to persist forever. So I stopped grabbing on the ego wants permanence, the ego ones, I'm never going to be, you know, hurt. I am permanently safe. I'm permanently okay. But we know that's not true. I mean, eventually, we're all going to not be here, right? So like, nothing is permanent. You whatever toys you amass in this life, you don't get to take them with you, right. So you know, that car that you want to keep perfectly and not ever scratch. It's It's way better to really realise I'd like to keep that car perfect. But if it gets a scratch, yeah, things get scratches, that's, that's what it is, I'll either get it fixed, or I'll let it be or, you know, you all of a sudden have a lot more freedom, not trying to hold on or not trying to hold permanent to anything, right. Yeah.

56:27  
What does the term personal development mean to you?

56:32  
I think a lot of what we've already talked about. So personal development is taking an interest in developing yourself. So that you can be happy, effective, you know, psychologically, physically, society balanced in a way that is meaningful to you. Right? So that you can know and connect with a meaningful purpose for yourself so that you can have a life that's filled with passion so that you're not self sabotaging or hurting yourself or others, right, so that you're not addicted. And so that path of developing yourself is exactly what I'm trying to codify into, you know, step one, step two, step three, to take people through what that looks like to go from anywhere from deep dysfunction, to okay function to exceptional function, and all those dimensions of how you think how you feel and how you behave. And if you do that, well, we have great tools that are helpful to do that, right. We have great tools and thinking we have great tools in emotional mastery. And we have great tools and applying yourself in the doing space so that you can just live a life that's more evolved.

57:48  
Sure. And even though I'm sure that your difficult past has actually led you to where you are at the moment, and it was necessary, but still, I will ask if you had the chance to go back in time and meet your 20 year old self? What What advice would you give him?

58:14  
That's a great question. So my, let's say younger self, because I'm thinking about, you know, there's probably different things that I would say to a younger version to the 20 year old version to the 30 year old version, etc. The first one was to the really dysfunctional version of me way back, when I would have probably done maybe a little bit of re parenting, I would have loved that person, I would have helped them to feel seen and Okay, and loved and accepted. Right, I would have given a base of safety and care and love, like I would do in a parenting relationship. Right, I would, first and foremost, let this person feel safe and okay. In their experience of being right, a more young adult version of myself, I would say, I would, I would start to talk about some of these tools of attention and tools of unconscious patterns, and really start to share what's available to gain a sense of self mastery, and probably gotten clear on helping that version of myself know what they really wanted. Right? So not to be all over the place in my answer. I apologise that I, you know, shotgun on answering a lot of these things. But I think that real personal development and real transformation often is, can be so profound that you can't even see what it is from where you are. So if you're not fully evolved in whatever way, your version of what you think you need is actually it's what you think you want, but it's not actually the thing that you want, right? You think you want five new clients for your business, you think you want a really sexy body on the beach or whatever, but what you actually Want is a deep sense of change in yourself, which looks more like self mastery and self actualization and self transcendence, right? Like those are what you actually should be working on. Because those are the master keys to not only get you, the body you want and the clients you want, and all those things, but everything else you're going to want along the way, because you don't just want that one thing, right? I think that we have a main problem, that whatever the problem is, and this moment, feels as though that's all I need. Like, that's my full focus, right? So I often use the example of if you were to lose your iPhone or your Android, that would completely take over your life for that movie, like, Where's my phone, like every other thing? On the problem thing would go away, and nothing could continue until you get the phone. Right, but a way more mature together understanding is that yes, I might need to find my phone. But the bigger game here is, you know, how can I be okay, without a phone? How can I you know, like, that's, that's just a little aspect of myself. So anyway, most of our problems look like that. So if I went back to a younger version of myself, I would show that what you're looking for is actually not external. It's really like an internal game that you should shift your focus to to change faster, get there quicker.

1:01:16  
Rob, you have a phrase tattooed on your arm there that says stimulus motion? Yes. Yes. What's that about?

1:01:24  
So, okay, so we'll go back to meditation for a second, right. So if I teach somebody some of these tools of attention, and through that I'm inviting them to maybe sit meditation for a minute a day, let's just real simple. And maybe they grow that practice to 10 minutes a day, and they actually start to get this sense of stillness, which is this beauty of being an experience, rather than being lost in thought. It doesn't mean there's no thought, but when thought comes up, they can come back to experience, Okay, I'm gonna call that stillness, right, there's a, there's a quality of stillness in your being, that can be really pleasurable, it can be really beautiful. It can be really, okay. Right? Then we have to get off the seat. And now we're in motion. Now we're in the doing now we're back to time, right? So stillness might be really equated to now, right? It's almost like dealing with time differently. It's like I'm present. I'm here. I'm in the experience of being right, that's really beautiful and meaningful. But there's also motion, I have to go do things over time. And so I have to use time, I have to model time after us thought, right? So thoughts, not, we don't want to throw away thought thought is super important. And it matters. But I want to use thought as a tool, I don't want to be lost in thought, as it's the only reality I want to, I want to be able to objectify it and use it as a tool. So most people will get some sense of what stillness means if they try a meditation practice. But then they get into their doing or into the motion of life. And they'll say things like, I gotta get back to the meditation cushion, right? Like I have to calm down to find stillness again. And what I think is, that's a great evolution, just to have any access to stillness at all is a great evolution. But what I'm really trying to get people to is that you can have a sense of stillness in motion, you can actually have a quality of being in your doing, where being and doing actually merge. And they're not separate things, right. So this is the guy walking down the hallway. And every step is beautiful. I actually have a sense of real, being here. Like, I'm aware of what my seat feels like, I can feel my feet. But I'm also talking and modelling you and we're, we're dancing in the space of motion of being right of doing right, we're doing something like a podcast, but I'm also bringing a real felt sense of being into it. And so I would say that at a higher level, that is stillness in motion, right? It is being still in my doing that is really beautiful. And that starts to look more. And not literally just like this, but more like what you might think Tai Chi looks like or something right? Like you're literally doing the dishes or giving a speech or talking with friends and being around a fire. Those can be deeply embodied, and have a real sense of awakeness and stillness in them. And honestly, this is what flow states look like when you talk to the best athletes as they're kicking ass. And, you know, I mean, the best fighters that are that are doing very aggressive things. The highest version of that has a sense of, you know, being in it. That's, that's really beautiful. Mm hmm. So that's what that means. That's great.

1:04:21  
Thank you for sharing that with us. Is there anything that you were hoping we would talk about today and I completely be stalking you

1:04:33  
know, I'm just excited to be here and I'm really happy to explore this stuff with you. It's really fun to think through it with you and in front of you and have you bounce stuff back to me. It's it's been great. So yeah, I think we got to a lot of really important stuff and I think it's good. You know, maybe the fact you asked me about personal development and I I broke it into a bunch of different things. I mean, the thing that I have named that is I Identity shifting. And the reason I talk about it that way is that I want people to really know that there is a, a much more realised version of themselves, that can be attained, if they take on personal development. And that the deepest version of that in the way that I talk about it, at least, is really changing who you are in a meaningful way. And by the way, your ego is going to resist that, right? Like the the ego doesn't want to change it wants to, it wants to get the world to change around it. Right. But I'm going to ask a quick question, is it harder to change the world? Or is it harder to write? And so if we can get past that, and really open to, okay, where am I maybe not wired accurately, maybe I could gain a couple skills, maybe there's some things in my ways of being that could change. And I could really take on that I am capable of being different than I am right now. And change who I am. Right? That is, now you've changed your identity in a meaningful way. And I've already said this a little bit, but that happens all the time. Right. So you're no longer your five year old self. You know, if you're growing, you're no longer your 20 year old self. If you become a parent, you're you know, people know, like, whether you want to or not, you're different. As soon as you're a parent, if you take on a business, you're different as soon as you become a business owner, right? So our identity is shifting all the time. But we can do it consciously, we can actually take our conscious attention and shift ourselves. And that is maybe the most powerful thing of being a human being right. I don't think dogs do that. I don't think birds do that. But humans can do that. And a lot of us don't. But that's really sad, because we can't, and if you choose to take it on, there are really profound things in the personal development space that can allow you to not only succeed and all the different levels, but have a quality of life that is much more meaningful and happy and realise them what you may be experiencing today.

1:07:00  
Awesome, awesome. Rob, how can people find out more about you? Obviously, I'll put them in the show notes. But to where would you direct people?

1:07:12  
Sure. I think the easiest way is just to go to rob Scott Comm. You can find my podcast there. You can find my different programmes there. There's free tools for people. And if anybody wanted to look into working with me, there's there's they can find how to do that there as well.

1:07:28  
I want to thank you very much for our conversation today. And I will tell you with from my heart honestly that it's been one of the most fascinating podcast interviews I've done so far. So I really appreciate you and thank you very much for this. Well,

1:07:44  
knowing knowing the quality of people that you've had on in the past. That's a very touching comment. So thank you very much. That means a lot to me. I appreciate it. It's been great to be with you.

1:07:53  
Thank you any last parting words?

1:07:55  
Now just just deep gratitude, and I hope that people can take some of these things and have them help. That's my that's my real hope.

1:08:07  
I hope you enjoyed listening. If you have, please share this episode with someone who you think would benefit from it. If you want more inspirational and actionable knowledge, join my facebook group personal development mastery. The link is in the show notes or you can type bit dot L y sluss PDM group. And until next time, stand out don't fit in

Transcribed by https://otter.ai