#228 A conversation about alcohol for sober curious people, with Chris Branch.

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION

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Please note that while an effort is made to provide an accurate transcription, errors and omissions may be present. No part of this transcription can be referenced or reproduced without permission.

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Chris Branch  0:00  
naively, I thought, if I could give up alcohol for a year, that would prove that I'm in control, and wouldn't cascade into getting drunk from time to time. But obviously, that's not the case with alcohol. Because once you take, once you have a beer or two, the alcohol takes over your decision making changes. So although I felt more in control for a few months, so eventually, I just went back to my old ways where, again, I didn't drink a lot, but from time to time, I could drink too much.

Agi Keramidas  0:34  
You are listening to Personal Development Mastery podcast, where you will find inspirational conversations, and actionable takeaways to master yourself and improve your life. I am your host, Agi Keramidas. And my mission is to inspire you to grow, stand out and take action towards a purposeful and fulfilling life. I interview successful entrepreneurs, authors, thought leaders, spiritual teachers, people who share their journey, aha moments, milestones and failures for you to be inspired to grow. In each episode, Monday and Thursday, you will find actionable takeaways that you can implement right now, even if you only have limited time. Today's episode is a conversation about alcohol and about going alcohol free. So if you are sober curious, it's a conversation for you. Let's dive right in. 

Agi Keramidas  1:37  
Today, I'm delighted to speak with Chris Branch. And Chris, I will start this conversation I will by sharing something I've done over my podcasting journey. Over 150, close to 100. Interviews now went about 10 or a dozen people out of them I have interviewed twice. You are the first person that I'm going to interview for the third time in the podcast. So it is a first so welcome, Chris to the show.

Chris Branch  2:16  
Thank you very much. Again, that is an honour that is a real honour. I guess maybe it's I was an early adopter to your podcast. So that's given me the time to get on here three times.

Agi Keramidas  2:26  
It is the direct it is what we what you you say Chris? And yeah, it was the first time it was on my first podcast. And then we spoken episode 13 of this podcast. So it's been a long journey since then. Sure.

Chris Branch  2:44  
And it's one. It's wonderful to see your journey during that time. So yeah, well done on your consistency and, as you say, the compounding effect of of your podcast.

Agi Keramidas  2:53  
Thank you, Chris. I'm not going to give a formal introduction of you. I will ask you in a moment to maybe give give us a brief you know, one minute introduction of who you are. Before I say that I was thinking of how I could introduce you but then I left the introduction I will just share some words or key words if you want that. Come to my mind when I think of you. So I will just read them osteopath, proficient athlete, stoic meditation, charismatic speakers, minimalist entrepreneur. And even though this might sound like, you know, disconnected words from each other, that would be my key words describing you but please, share with us a proper introduction. Well, I

Chris Branch  3:50  
like that I like that collection of words. And it's very kind of you to think of me with alongside those words, actually. So I'll start with the Osteopath bit. That's my profession. I run a clinic. But I think one of the reasons you and I have spoken three times now is that I'm very interested in life philosophy. And the reason for that is I'm very fascinated by the fact that we don't tend to do the things that we know are good for us. There's this resistance holding us back and often the resistance wins. So if only we all did the things we know to be good for us life would be easy, but we don't. And I say I think this is important as an osteopath because when I'm trying to help my patients, they actually know what to do in terms of how to eat how to stretch how to move how to exercise, but there's something holding them back that stopping them from doing it regularly and consistently. So over time during my career, I've become more and more interested in philosophy to help spark people and is not inspire, but just to help people to do the right thing. NGS and, and in my own life as well, because I noticed this resistance in my own life. So that's become a particular interest of mine. And and I see that as my job as an osteopath. So even though my job is hands on, and we help people with a hands on treatment, it's it's the conversation that I think helps them more so that then they can go off and do the right things. And that's what really helps them in the long run.

Agi Keramidas  5:26  
Thank you. And yeah, that's the philosophy that personal development of this journey and understanding ourselves is the, as you said, one of the reasons we've had this successful conversations that we have a specific topic for today, though, which is derived by watch the video that you did a few weeks ago on YouTube about your experience and your learnings haven't gone over a year, being alcohol free. And because this is a topic that I also have been wanting to discuss, for a long time have after having had my own experiences, ourselves. So we agreed to focus our conversations today on this topic, among all the other topics that we could have. And I think I don't know, if you want to give a preface to this conversation, Chris, because sometimes I think that talking about alcohol or going alcohol free. For some people, it implies that there is something inherently wrong or there is it is a sensitive topic, I think in in some parts of the society. So maybe it's important to give some kind of a preface to this conversation,

Chris Branch  6:53  
I completely agree, says, There is a very strong cultural link to alcohol. And so as always make it really clear that this is something I'm not trying to press on on anyone so so I've come to notice, and this is how I framed it in my YouTube video that there are two types of people in the world there, there are people like my wife, where she actually just doesn't like the feeling of getting drunk, she doesn't like the feeling of being tipsy, or being out of control. She likes a flavour of alcohol, but because she doesn't really like getting drunk, she'll have a glass of wine from time to time. And she'll stop after that glass of wine, but and she's enjoyed the flavour, but then she can stop. Then there's another type of person. And for whatever reason, I think I'm coming to learn that there are genetic factors here. But for whatever reason, I your body, when you start drinking, and this is the category I fall into, you can easily cascade into drinking too much. Now, for me personally, most of the time, I wouldn't drink too much. I'm not in an environment where I can do that. But from time to time, I drink too much. And what I started to notice is that, although I enjoyed drinking, I enjoyed the flavour. So we could call that an upside. The downsides of alcohol starts to outweigh the upside. So I call this the net effect. So So for many people, the net effects of alcohol is positive. And for those people, we're not trying to convince you not to drink. But for some people, the net effect of alcohol is actually a negative one. And you might be wondering what it's like to live a life without alcohol. And so there's, there's a phrase for this group of people. And that's super curious. And I only discovered this, this phrase on the internet, as I've been researching my own journey. So this this is a podcast for sober curious people where you drink alcohol. Sometimes it's good. Sometimes it's bad. And certainly the downsides are starting to outweigh the upsides. So this is who we're addressing this conversation to. And we're not trying to convince anyone else to give up alcohol. We're just trying to give tips to those people who who might be sober curious.

Agi Keramidas  9:11  
Yeah, like that. You said, so be curious. And it made me I remembered myself here so I will when I first became this sober, sober years that was this was when you know what they get in a knee crease was at some point, I went online and started and took an online test to see what was my relationship with alcohol. That factor alone triggered in me that wait a minute, if I am researching about myself, there must be a reason there is some concern maybe it's not a conscious concern or something that I won't necessarily vocalise. But I did have some concerns in order to take that online quiz of what's my relationship with alcohol so that So that's what came from my levels. Many years ago, when I started my own journey of personal development.

Chris Branch  10:08  
I was just gonna say I make a goal setting notes and writing journals and, and I can find my first kind of so a sentence that was circled in my journal back in 2014, saying, Should I give up alcohol? And it was it was part of the living a better life and trying to put it into the context of what I was trying to achieve and building a business and having a family and, and I have had that question back in 2014. And then it was only 2021, seven years later, that actually decided to give up for good. So I was so Bicurious for a long time. And I just didn't know how to take the leap.

Agi Keramidas  10:48  
Yeah, for me, they they leave the first live was one dry January when I did, which was 2017 2018 The first time I did that, and then I enjoyed it, even though with the challenges it brought. And then I did more, one months, and then I did the three months. And then you know, it's been a journey with periods of complete abstinence, the latest one, which I actually want to talk about your show, because you are you have done over a year as I did the previous year. So what I'm trying to say is that both of us we've had periods that we have deliberately chosen to not drink for our own reasons and purposes. So I would like to discuss this with you because you have done you started, if I'm not mistaken, with intention of doing the 2021 as soon alcohol free or something like this, and then you carried on past the the year has ended. So let's sign up can I begin with the why the motivation behind starting a one year journey.

Chris Branch  12:09  
So a slight clarification there. So I have done a one year challenge in the past. And that was probably 2017 as well actually. Same Same as when you started your dry January. So when I did the 2017 one year that I my intention then was to do one year. Naively, I thought, if I could give up alcohol for a year, that would prove that I'm in control, and wouldn't cascade into getting drunk from time to time. But obviously, that's not the case with alcohol. Because once you take, once you have a beer or two, the alcohol takes over your decision making changes. So although I felt more in control for a few months, so eventually, I just went back to my old ways where, again, I didn't drink a lot, but from time to time, I could drink too much. So that was back in 2017. And then I bumbled along my usual way for a few years. When I gave up last year in 2021. My, my quite quickly, my intention was to give up forever. So I, the story is I it was in April 2021, I went to a friend's house and I took four beers and I told my wife, I'll be home by 9pm. We're going out with the kids tomorrow, I need to go for a run tomorrow. I'm gonna drink these four beers, and I'll be home by nine. I drink the four beers, we're having a great time, he talked to me about some wine. And then before I know it, I drunk loads of wine. I got in at 1:02am absolutely hammered. And I woke up the next day. And so I'll wake up the next day obviously with an Angry Wife. But what was different that time was this voice in my head, I had the worst hangover. And a voice in my head said I never want this to happen again. And, and it. It was just such a clear moment for me that I never wanted to have a hangover like that. Again, I never wanted to write a day off again, where I'd plan to go out with my kids, I'd plan to go for a run. I never wanted that to happen again. And the other observation in that moment was, I was never in control. As soon as I had one beer, the beer was in control there. The wine was in control. My conscious self, my sober self, genuinely wanted to be home by 9pm and have a nice day with my family the next day. But as soon as I started drinking, the alcohol was in control so so in that moment, where I woke up hungover, and this voice said this could never happen again. I realised for me, there's only one way that that can happen. And that's to never drink again. Because if I said I'm only going to have one or two beers, and I'll never drink lots again. Unfortunately that's not true because my my genetic system or whatever it is metabolics system just likes to drink too much. So I enjoy that process. So I just have to cut it out completely.

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Agi Keramidas  16:41  
There were many things now that came to my mind when you were saying that they will start with a difference. And then to commonalities The difference with me was my when I did my one year, it was my main motivation was self discipline, I have found that for myself, when I said to myself these kinds of goals or tasks or I work very well, in order to achieve it. So it's I have this self motivating circle that gets activated. So it's not to say that all the other things can go over. So they were not a factor. But my my main factor for one year as such was the discipline part of it. But in terms of the commonalities, there were two things that you said, the first was to write in the day off, I think that was the phrase you use. Because when you drink too much, you're right, the next day of pretty much it's impossible to do what you would do normally. And the big realisation for me was that I can't afford to do that. I mean, I don't have the time to write a day. So forever very limited time, it's more than my most precious asset and wasting it like that is terrible is it is really not good use of my life. And you also said that after one or two drinks, you're not in control anymore, the and I can relate to that, I think suppose people who are listening to this conversation also can relate that with that initial maybe enjoyment of having one to two drinks, and that you know tips in is that merriness that that nice feeling that we feel we tend to like to prolong it by drinking more unfortunately, it doesn't get prolonged, then it goes into a deeper, more different state. So yeah, also not been in control. And that's what my point was, before I took that data not being in control of my actions. My behaviour was something that hurt was hurting my confidence. I couldn't really enjoy being with myself knowing that you know what, I have this weakness, I will call it like that, that I'm not in control. I just give control voluntarily to something. It's a substance or a habit if you don't want to look at the substance a habit. Sure. Yeah, that was also for me, a big motivating factor.

Chris Branch  19:27  
So one of the ways like I just hope that one of the things that helped me decide to give up forever and helped me do it with a different mindset to what I'd done before was a book called The easy way to control alcohol by Alan Carr. And I heard about this book from a or you've read it Okay. I heard about it from a comedian who was interviewed by Joe Rogan. So the comedian is called Nikki Glaser and she she's a comedian who Drink seven days a week. And she was convinced that her job relates her job relied on her drinking every day. Her whole social network drank every day, she was drinking on stage, it was just part of her job she assumed. Then she read this book, and she gave up overnight. So I heard her story. And I instantly bought the book. In introduction to the book, one of the most helpful things for me was that he takes the pressure off you, and makes you realise it's not your fault. So you just said that you felt like this. This thing is a weakness when what Alan Carr does is he makes you realise it's not a weakness, it's not your fault. And that was one of the most helpful things for me out the whole book, because so often, if I, if I drank too much, or I was hungover, the voice in my head would say, you idiot, it's, it's all your vote. And actually, what Alan Carr does is he makes you realise it's, it's not your fault. It's the alcohols fault. And he calls the alcohol, the little monster so. So once the little monster gets in you, the little monster takes over. And it's the little monsters fault. He goes deeper into how we let the little monster infiltrate our society and how, how, from a very young age, we're conditioned. So if you, if I imagine if I say to you imagine you're watching a really cool movie, it's a very cinematic film. And someone's had a stressful day, and they walk into their apartment, what's the first thing they do? What's the first thing they do? And typically, a scene to portray stress would be to go and grab a glass of whiskey? Or if, if you're watching the same movie, but they're celebrating, and what, what's the first thing you see you see a clinking of glasses. And so all of these, like, little social prompts are given to us from a young age in lots of the media we absorb. And so it's, it's what Alan Carr did is he made you realise it, it's not your fault. So that took a huge burden for me. And that was just in the introduction to the book. And I realise, oh, yeah, it's not my fault. And that's also why I'm not in control, it's the little monster that takes over, it's the drug, it's the poison, whatever you want to call it. That is in control. And then for me as an individual, that's just more reason why I need to take it out completely.

Agi Keramidas  22:25  
That book from Audible, that book, first of all, I would recommend anyone listening to this conversation to read, it's a very small book, and you can read it in very in one sitting. What I remember very clearly from that book, was that pizza plant analogy, which, if you remember, the beasts that were attracted by the nectar of the plant, and the plant is the one that you know, the guts is the the insect. So it was a very fitting metaphor that he was using that made me understand a lot of things. So a fantastic book. Yes, it's the easy way to stop alcohol. I think that's how it's called, isn't it?

Chris Branch  23:13  
The easy way to control alcohol,

Agi Keramidas  23:15  
it will control okay, maybe.

Chris Branch  23:18  
Also, yeah, he also has the book, the easy way to stop smoking. But this one uses the word control. The other thing that I picked up on from what you said earlier about when you gave up alcohol for a year, and you said you wanted to do it as a form of self discipline, that that is obviously a good thing to do. There's no denying that. But when it comes to alcohol, Allen cold call that the willpower methods. So what you did and what I did, the first time I gave up alcohol for a year was that I set myself a challenge. And then the challenge became Do I have the willpower to give up for a year. And I did. And I had the willpower, but because I was using willpower to give up alcohol, I the alcohol was actually still in control, I was having to talk to myself when I wanted alcohol, to not have alcohol. So that proved that I had willpower and self discipline. But the alcohol was actually still in control. Even though I wasn't drinking it. It was still in control because there was still this, this assumption that I was going to go back to it which shows that really it was still in control. What the book, the easy way to control alcohol does is it helps you reframe every reason you think you want alcohol, and then it lifts the illusion it makes you realise that the reason you think you want it is actually an illusion. And if you can just look at it from a slightly different angle, you realise Oh, it's not the alcohol I want that it might be something else in this moment I want that would improve my life. But alcohol isn't part of that I can separate the alcohol from the real thing that I want. So So now I would say I just don't want alcohol. There's no willpower necessarily So there's no self discipline because because I just don't want it that the example I use is if someone came up to you and said, Can I kick you in the shin? You'd probably say, No, I don't want you to kick me in the shin. And now if someone comes up to me and says, you want a beer, I actually just say, No, I don't I don't want to be I've been on state days alcohol free. I've been on weddings alcohol free. They've been on holiday and Christmas. And we've celebrated things. And whenever there's an offer of alcohol, by someone that doesn't know it and drink alcohol. I just it's the easiest decision in the world for me, I just don't want it. So I don't it's a different model. Now is I do other things to prove that I have self discipline. But this isn't one of them. I don't need it, because I don't want it.

Agi Keramidas  25:43  
Yes, I totally agree with you. And for me, don't get me wrong, the self discipline was the initial motivator after a while, I didn't even need the willpower, or the self discipline because the the new behaviour and the new habits that had established and the obvious benefits of those getting, didn't really need me to exercise willpower anymore. Whenever I could have another opportunity or challenges if you want something that would normally have a drink, or they may even need to use will fall by that time because I've had so much gotten used not to have in it and knowing very well how when I felt and the benefits, which it's something actually I wanted to discuss with you because it's I believe it's very important to look at the the plus the benefits, the clear benefits of, you know, not not drinking for a period of time, whether that's one month, one year or indefinitely. That's another topic. Before we talk about the benefits a little bit, there was something you said that this time you have zero intention of coming back to drinking, you said I think you said forever, you use the word forever. So what exactly is different than this time? Because you've done one year before? And then you drank so this time? How can you say with certainty, it's forever.

Chris Branch  27:19  
So certainty is a strong word. I wouldn't, I can't, I can't say 100%. But certainly, that is my intention. So for the rest of my life, I don't intend to go to go back to alcohol. The two differences are, as we were saying, Now, I just don't want it the book helped me reframe my relationship with alcohol. So that actually I just don't want it now. And I can't see myself going back on that. The example I use is, it's like a magician showing you how the trick is done. Once you know how the trick is done, you can never unknow so for the rest of your life, once you see the magic trick, it's actually not magic anymore, you just you just know how the trick is done. So for me, I I know how the alcohol trick is done. I can't unknow that. So I don't think I'll ever go back to it. The other important distinction this time though, is I when I gave up for a year in 2017, I thought that was going to help give me better control over it and it didn't it clearly didn't. So having had a long yet this time won't be any different when I go back to it. So I just I've just come to the conclusion that I can't bring it back into my life that as you say the benefits far outweigh my life. A simple way to say is my life is just better with it without it. I can't I'm the sort of person that isn't in control when I have it so it's that's that's what led me to think it's a forever thing as far as as close to certain as I can be. You

Agi Keramidas  28:57  
was in that YouTube video that I was watching that he made you had this very good example you had a little drawing which we can't show here now because it's a podcast but you had the drawing about how much fun or not fun someone perceives that they have on either side of you know the either drinking or not drinking and I liked very much that then you said that the perceived fun is maybe that when you have that one drink or two drinks and you perceive that you have more fun but then the next day the it's very difficult to describe it now without someone having seen the

Chris Branch  29:40  
way I explain it. Without without the drawing is a chat to lots of people when I tell some of my friends or obviously this is happening less and less now because my friends know but certainly at the beginning when I told some of my friends who just really enjoy drinking, and by the way I would put myself into that category I was someone that did enjoy drinking When I tell them that I'm now alcohol free, they kind of say, oh, but is it less fun? Are you having any fun, because there's the assumption that drinking is all fun. And not drinking is no fun. So, so actually, the way I think about it, this is what I put in my drawing. But we could just put numbers on it there assuming that drinking alcohol is 100% fun, and not drinking 0% Fun, when actually, I still have 90% of the fun. And maybe you could argue that for when you're drinking one or two or three drinks, and you're in that light Marinus, you might be having a little bit more fun. If you were to do a little questionnaire study, during the first couple of drinks, people might be having slightly more fun for one or two drinks. But like I say, being sober is still fun, I'm still enjoying a conversation with my friends, I'm still laughing. And actually, when other people are a bit tipsy, that conversation is funny. So even though I'm sober, I'm still enjoying their tipsy conversation. I still feel a part of it. But then there's a really clear tipping point, though. And it's after, depending on how you absorb alcohol, it's after two or three or four drinks were actually just, it's no more fun. And really, if you were to be asking people, it's, it's probably just not much better at all. They can't get their words out properly, and, and then, and then you start to bring in the downside of the next day. So the sober person that was having 90% fond compared to the drinking persons 100% Fun with the first couple of drinks. Certainly the sober person is still at 90%, they're still having fun, that the person who's drinking more, we started to have less fun. And then the next day, they are hungover, so they have very little fun, and they're starting to suffer because of the hangover. Whereas the person who is sober wakes up the next day, they're, they're lucid, they're clear, they know they have no hangover, they can go exercising, they can be with their family. So they're having just as much fun the next day. So it's a more consistent, fun and happiness. That's what I found. It's the consistency of happiness. And although I might be missing out on a little bit of top end fun occasionally, which actually isn't very often at all. I am much more content with that consistency of happiness, rather than the peaks and troughs where when I was drinking, I like

Agi Keramidas  32:24  
that very much the consistency of happens the way that you bought it. And we've already spoke about some benefits that are some that come out of, you know, not having alcohol. There is one in particular we haven't mentioned, and I would like a comment from you. And it's health. I mean, how how do you feel that your health or or I don't want to generalise but let's say someone listening that how would they expect their health to improve? Because for me, and I will only give a brief comment. It was my energy levels for sure. My weight or waist line if you want. And my my sleep, the sleep quality was absolutely there was no comparison. So this will just, you know, just some things that come to my mind. Tell me also your thoughts about this. Yeah.

Chris Branch  33:24  
So let me think where to start. It's so multifaceted. And it's such a such a powerful improvement in health. One thing I'll start with before I go off on this topic, I keep using the phrase hangover or being hungover, which happens if you drink too much. But what I also want to note is that even in hindsight now, when I had one or two drinks that was still affecting me the next day, so so it's, it's still one to cutting out the one drink or the two drinks that can still impact you. And now Now would be a good time to talk about it because I sleep wearing the aura ring, which is a very accurate sleep tracker. And I can look back at my data from when I was drinking alcohol and even one beer would disturb my sleep. The book why we sleep is a very good read that I think everyone everyone should read, or at least we'll try and listen to podcasts with Matthew Walker, the author of why we sleep. And just having a slightly disturbed sleep can impact so many things in a life if we have disturbed sleep, it makes us crave more carbohydrates and we eat too much the next day. It can lead over time it can lead to higher risk of heart disease and dementia. Being able to sleep properly, gives us better mood gives us better concentration, but over time really, really impacts their long term health as well. And that even one drink can disturb their sleep. So if you're doing that too regularly, over time that can lead to quite severe health health problems and And you said the weight. What was interesting with me was it took about two months. So this is where I've had some patients who do the dry January, and they don't really notice a huge amount of difference from weight. And I say, Well, for me, it was two months later, where suddenly this little belly I had under my belly button just melted away. I wasn't doing anything differently. But two months later, suddenly, it just melted. That was my little baby, it's just gone two months later. So if anyone is giving up alcohol for weight loss reasons, I would say try at least 90 days, because then you'll really see the benefits. But there have been some other interesting benefits that were at first a little bit abstract, but now I can really see come to fruition. So the thing about the day that I gave up alcohol, or the night before I set the intention of going for a run on the Sunday, and then I accidentally got hammered. And so I didn't go for the run on Sunday. Now, if I ever set the intention for going for a run, there is nothing that will certainly I can't get in the way of it myself. Sometimes life gets in the way. But that's very rare. It will never be me that's got in the way of going for a run. So when I set an intention for going for a run on a Sunday, I go for a run on a Sunday. So what's happened is, without realising at first, I was actually just being more consistent with with exercise, I was also being more consistent with my dietary choices, because as I was saying earlier, if you sleep poorly, you crave more carbohydrates, and you It disturbs your ability to feel full. So after even one or two drinks, the next day, you can eat more carbs, you can make the bad choices, you can eat too much. Whereas now I'm consistently eating the right amount and making the right decisions with my diet. So over the last year, I've been exercising more eating better and better. And now I've signed up to my first ultra marathon. And I'm about in a few weeks time to go into a mountain Ultra race. And and then in hindsight, that has only happened because I gave up too, gave up alcohol. And at first I didn't realise that it was that I gave up alcohol. But what happened was, I went for a run every Sunday, as well as during the week. And then I became better at running. And then I entered a few races. And then this little voice in my head said how far could you go and and I started to look at ultra marathons and and now I'm doing a mountain Ultra. But it's only because of the consistency of exercising when I say I'm going to exercise and eating, eating well, James clear, the author of atomic habits, he has this chapter in his book, where he talks about one's identity, and how if you try and create an identity around a habit, it makes you more likely to stick to it. So rather than being someone who's goal driven, and saying, I'm going to exercise three times a week so that I can lose 30 pounds, you create the identity of being someone who never misses a workout. That's James Claire's example, so So you tell yourself, I am someone who never misses a workout, that's your identity.

Chris Branch  38:13  
Whereas when I was drinking, as much as I wanted that identity, it actually wasn't true because I would miss workouts and, and I only miss workouts when I'd had a beer that there's a clear correlation between alcohol and my identity or that and then what it created was this mismatch between what I wanted my identity to be and what it actually was. And then that mismatch between who you want to be and what your actions are, what can lead to unhappiness so so now I would just say that I'm consistent with my intentions and my actions. And that's, it's taken a year for me to realise that there's this strong correlation between alcohol or not having alcohol. And now how happy I am because delving into it, there's no discrepancy between how I want to live my life and how I'm actually living in my life.

Agi Keramidas  39:07  
Thank you. That's a wonderful answer you gave me Chris. And I will add to that you said about the running that I ran the London Marathon last year in October. And I also believe that what you said that if I wasn't at that time, I was like 10 months into my alcohol free challenge. And I truly believe that if I was drinking, even occasionally at that time, I wouldn't have been able to at least you know, do the race in such a way that I enjoyed it and without the judicial problem. So just went it was my first ever marathon and it went easier than I thought it would. But I had months and months of consistent and discipline training behind it hours and hours and miles and miles which you know very well and you One thing give the listener ramps they know to, but it wouldn't have happened, the consistency if I was drinking. But the

Chris Branch  40:09  
thing I'm really starting to enjoy is just this feeling that I'm trying my best. So So I haven't done my ultra marathon. Yeah, so you did really well in your mountain, you did the consistent work and you did your marathon, and you did really well in it. I don't know how this marathon, my Ultra is gonna go because it's in a few weeks time, I think it's gonna go well, I feel good. But even if it doesn't, I will look back on the last few months of training, knowing that I've tried my best every single workout I wanted to I've done. So if I failed in the race, for whatever reason, if something goes wrong in this race, I can still look back and say, Well, I tried my best so so with my failure, if I if I fail, I hope I don't, if I fail, my failure will feel less bad. If however, I'd been drinking, and I've missed workouts, and then I was in the race, and I failed, I would really be beating myself up. So So for me, it's the it's the being able to kind of look at your actions, and analyse them to know, okay, I tried my best because then because then the outcome actually becomes less important. You want to succeed in whatever you're trying to do, and you succeeded in your marathon. But if you didn't, it wouldn't have been missing workouts. That was the problem. You did all your workouts. And that's kind of where I'm at now. That's how I'm feeling about it. I want to succeed, I hope I do. But if I don't, it wasn't through lack of trying, I've tried my very hardest. And it's that not drinking that's helped me try my very hardest.

Agi Keramidas  41:39  
Thank you. And you mentioned earlier, and I think it's important, I will mention that as well. From my side, you mentioned the rink that you wear, I use a whoop band, which I see is similar, it gives me very, very precise measurements of my heart rate variability, resting heart rate, respiratory rate, all these things which can be geeky, but at the end, they are metrics that describe how my body is feeling and operating. And it's great to have a number. It's it really puts things into perspective. So I have noticed that, as you said about the just one beer if I if I drink, the next day, those numbers are plummeted, they're crossed, I see reds, where I usually see greens from my recovery. It is amazing how much it influences or my resting heart rate can be five or 10. A minute more, which is when I first saw that, that was scary. I mean, that was. So it was very useful. And I'm sharing that as for people that want to put the number or to measure something as well and not have it subjective. Which devices with this smart devices, you can actually see for yourself, what happens after you've drank or if you haven't drank and, you know, it's a matter of then drawing your conclusions out of it.

Chris Branch  43:17  
And definitely,

Agi Keramidas  43:19  
please, I don't know if you if you want to add anything to what we were saying. Otherwise, I would like to start conclude in order. You know, wrapping things up a little bit here. And what I want to ask you is so for someone who is still listening, and his or she's sober, curious, as as you said, What's one piece of advice something that they can do? What would you tell him or her that you know you they've listened so far, they're intrigued? What next? What could they do? What's What would you tell them?

Chris Branch  43:59  
I think the biggest piece of advice is to pay attention to your mind when you feel like you want to drink. So the way I think about it is we've we've got two brains, we've got the human higher mind, I'll call it by the way, I'm stealing this from Tim urban, the from the blog Wait, but why he wrote he writes really beautifully about the primal brain and the higher mind. And I encourage you to look at his blog blog. So I'm stealing his phraseology here. So we've got the human higher mind. And then we've got the primal brain. Now the primal brain is other people call it the lizard brain. It's the it's the brain that has evolved over millennia. And it's very animalistic. So as animals we only survived because we worked as groups in a tribe. So there's this very strong feeling of wanting to fit into a tribe associated with our primal brain. Now, our higher minds the neocortex. is fairly unique to humans as far as we know. And it's very good at taking from the past to make a decision in the present, to plan for the future to try and improve your life. So this is why humans thinking long term, we have long term strategies, we set goals, we try and change our life over a long period of time. Other animals don't really do this as much. And in our, in our mind, going back to the book, Alan Carr's book, How to Control alcohol. He uses the phrase the schizophrenic, the schizophrenic brain. So if you pay attention to your minds, there'll be two voices. One Voice is the primal tribal voice that wants you to fit into a tribe. And then there's a higher mind going, Oh, but I don't really want to I don't want to feel bad tomorrow. So it's planning for the future, you know, that you you might miss your work out, you know that you might not achieve your tasks in the week, blah, blah, blah. So you've got this schizophrenia, part of you wanting to drink and part of you not wanting to drink. And all I'd say is what the sooner you start noticing that there's this schizophrenia, typically, the primal brain talks louder. But if you can use a bit of mindfulness technique just to observe these thoughts and conversations in your own head, then you can kind of just lean into the higher mind. And notice that with the primal brain, the primal brain is going to use emotional tactics to try and get the primal brain to win. So again, this is where I've stolen this from Tim, Tim urban, he has a few drawings about how this works. The primal brain will use feelings like embarrassment, and awkwardness, to make you take an action to please the primal brain. So if you're with a group of friends, and they're drinking beer, and you decide you don't want to drink beer, or glass, or drink a glass of wine or Prosecco or something, the primal brain is going to raise the feeling of embarrassment and awkwardness until you take the action to fit in, when the higher mind is going to be screaming at you going, Oh, but I don't want to I don't want to. So not only do you have to notice the voices, and the schizophrenic voices talking in your mind, you also have to notice the tactics of the primal brain, which are feelings of embarrassment and awkwardness, and just observe them, sit with them, but then you can let them go. And no, they're not really you. They're not the true you. And you have to pay attention then more to that and lean into the higher higher mind. In my last year, of not being angry, I said, I don't want alcohol. There have been a few moments. And there are literally moments, a few seconds where I have wanted to drink. And I had now have the tactics, thanks to the book, the easy way to control alcohol, I now have the tactics where I can go, Oh, that's weird. I want to go Why do I want to go? And I go through my checklist of chapters from the book. And I'm like, oh, okay, it's not alcohol. I want to fit in right now. Everyone's got beer, I feel embarrassed. can I cope with that embarrassment? Yeah, of course. Because actually, I know that my friends don't care. No one cares. No one, I haven't had a single push back against me. Not drinking at all in the last year. So my embarrassment is only a feeling in me, it's not real. It's not the no one else cares. So now I can push that aside, or even push it aside and just sit with it. And, and lean into the higher mind that knows the plan and actually doesn't want to how go, my mind doesn't want to go. This is a feeling created by my primal brain. So

Chris Branch  48:42  
I would say if someone has come to the conclusion that they want to give up alcohol, they've done a bit of reading, they've read the book, maybe. But then they're in a situation where they think, Oh, I do want alcohol now. I would question them on that. I would question Do you want the alcohol? Or is it a feeling your primal brain is pushing? That makes you think you want alcohol? When actually your higher mind your true you doesn't? So that's probably the best piece of advice I can give.

Agi Keramidas  49:12  
Thank you that's very useful and not just about alcohol listening. Oh, exactly. Why this is a skill for for life. If you want to

Chris Branch  49:21  
start a business or if you want to do a workout or if you have whatever it is. You need to you need to quiet the primal brain.

Agi Keramidas  49:30  
Chris, where would you direct the people that loved the conversation and want to connect with you and find out more about you?

Chris Branch  49:39  
Well, the thing I'm putting energy into at the moment is my YouTube channel. So you can find my youtube channel at Chris branch just typing Chris branch and it's there and then feel free to come in and say hello on some of the videos there.

Agi Keramidas  49:55  
Chris, I want to thank you very much. This has been a very enjoyable conversation. I I hope it was useful and you know provoking some maybe some new thinking or some ideas and that was really the intention from the begin for this as you said the shortbread curious people. So thank you very much last parting words from you.

Chris Branch  50:21  
It's always a pleasure to talk to you AV so I've really enjoyed the conversation as well and maybe in the next few years I'll be back for back for number four. So we will see but yeah, it's always a pleasure and and as you say, let's hope this this conversation helps some people who have been trying to take the leap to give up alcohol, and maybe there are some help some tips here that can help them

Agi Keramidas  50:50  
I hope you enjoyed listening and that you got a huge amount of value from today's episode. If you have, please share this episode with someone who you think will benefit from it. If you want to know more about what I do, visit my website, AGIKERAMIDAS.COM             And until next time, stand out, don't fit in!