#240 Relentless: Mark Victor Hansen (success tips from the co-creator of the Chicken Soup for the Soul series - half a billion books sold), with Mitzi Perdue.

___

EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION

___

Please note that while an effort is made to provide an accurate transcription, errors and omissions may be present. No part of this transcription can be referenced or reproduced without permission.

___

Agi Keramidas  0:06  
You are listening to personal development mastery podcast where you will find inspirational conversations and actionable takeaways to master yourself and improve your life. I am your host Agi Keramidas. And my mission is to inspire you to grow, stand out and take action towards a purposeful and fulfilling life. In this podcast, I invite myself inside the minds of successful entrepreneurs. Also spiritual teachers thought leaders, people who share their journey, milestones and failures for you to be inspired to grow. In each episode, you will find actionable takeaways that you can implement right now. So make sure you follow the podcast to get them as soon as they are released. 

Agi Keramidas  0:58  
Today's episode is success tips from the life of Mark Victor Hansen. Mark Victor Hansen is best known as the co author of the Chicken Soup for the Soul book series and brand setting world records in book sales with over half a billion books sold. My guest today Mitzi Perdue is the author of Mark's biography Relentless. she is a business woman and author, passionate about supporting people on their journey to self actualization. Mitzi has a fascinating story. Her father was the co founder of the Sheraton hotel chain. However, today's conversation is all about Mark Victor Hansen. And I hope the lessons from his life help someone to build confidence, empathy and valuable life skills. Let's dive right in.

Agi Keramidas  2:06  
Mitzi Perdue, welcome to Personal Development mastery podcast, it's a real pleasure and privilege to have you here with me today.

Mitzi Perdue  2:15  
Oh, for me, it's a complete joy. And my friend Mark Victor Hansen, who's been a guest on your show, he praised you to the skies. And he said, you know, just drop everything and apply to be on the show. So thank you.

Agi Keramidas  2:28  
Thank you very much. And we will speak today about Mark, Mark Victor Hansen. And as a matter of fact of the book, relentless, which you authored as his biographer, and it is out now and we will discuss about it. And in this book, which I read, and I found very intriguing and inspirational, as I was telling you, just before we started recording, there are some magic keys, as you say, are some elements from Mark's life that hopefully the listener can pick, maybe some of them or even one of them and implement and they are, they have some amazing, actionable learnings. And I will, I'm going to ask you quite a few things about that. But I wanted before I did that, just to us maybe like an introduction, or a main introduction, that you shed light to the life of Mark Victor Hansen, who is a very public person, but the question that you posed in the beginning is whether it who he is in private compared to the public persona, that that he hasn't really appreciated your approach as a biographer. And through your lens, you portrayed Mark Victor Hansen as a mentor, of course, inspiration to millions as he is in the force for healing and growth, but also a real person who makes mistakes, and his head failures, out of which he learned from and for me, it was and I'm sure that many that will read the book will relate were completely unaware of some elements because we tend to see the the success of someone and we often not see the struggle or the everything that led up to that. And I suppose that's why the title of the book is relentless, as well. So I'll pass it on to you. Before we go into more specific things about the book. I feel like I've spoken too much.

Mitzi Perdue  4:57  
Well, I'm happy to jump in and explain it little bit about the purpose of the book, relentless Mark Victor Hansen, is the story behind a guy who's in the Guinness Book of World Records for selling half a million books, I mean, that he and his co author have sold more nonfiction books than anybody else on Earth. And so the question is, how did this guy do it? And a lot of people know of him through chicken soup through for Chicken Soup for the Soul. But I was curious, what was the private person like behind the public, the public person who's probably addressed, you know, millions of people on his YouTubes, or his his, his talks? Because he's a professional public speaker. And it what's the guide, like behind it? Because we hear all these, you know, extraordinary successes, among them. He's been on the New York Times bestseller for different books 57 different times. So how does a guy get to that kind of success? And so the book that I wrote it had two parts. One is, what's the guy like, behind the public image? And then mixed in with that? How did he do it? How did he make those huge successes, and the the format of the book is I take I take my readers, through his life from childhood up until today. And here's the part that wouldn't be widely known. He's perfectly willing, or was when I was interviewing him to talk about his failures, of which he's had a great big abundance. In fact, I kind of think that this man is larger than life, because his failures are bigger, and his successes are bigger. But for anybody who wants to follow any of the success tips that I pull from looking at his life, I think that they can take, well, I'm going to address you, the audience. I do believe that following even one of his success tips will take you farther along the road of being all you want to be.

Agi Keramidas  7:15  
I completely agree with with that. And you mentioned failures. And one idea that I believe permeates the book and comes out of it, when when I read it was that failure is only failure, if you give up if you don't learn what it has to teach you. Otherwise, it's not a failure, it's an opportunity for growth. And that shows, in many, many cases through the book. So I was thinking then of going through some of the elements or of the chapters or of the events or stories in Marks life and look maybe at some key learnings as well in some of these tips or actions that one can take. And I will, I will start with a tiny bit of the childhood where you you talk about that story that he wanted to have that luxury English racing bike when he was very young kid, and that bike in today's money would cost something like $12,000. So his dad told him that you can only have it if you earned the money. And he I will let you briefly if you want to share that story and some key learning that came out from it.

Mitzi Perdue  8:39  
Okay, in truth, I'd like nothing better than to talk about it. Because Mark showed at a very young age, he was nine years old. He, his parents had taken him. His father was a baker, you know, baking bread and cakes and things. His father had saved enough money to take the whole family to Europe. And while Mark was in Europe, he saw this thing that just captured his imagination. It was a European racing bicycle. He he developed just a huge yearning to have one of those. He got back home. And as you mentioned in today's dollars, it would be like $12,000. So he began pestering his father, I really want one, please get it for me. And his father said over and over again. No, no. And then again, no, and then a few more noes. And finally his father said, you really want this thing? Earn it? Well as a nine year old going to earn in today's money $12,000. I mean, I would I would expect that it would be extraordinarily easy to give up. Little nine year old Mark. He in the United States and I'm going to guess it it's true elsewhere. There's a youth organisation, the Boy Scouts, there was a magazine this Reading the magazine. And he discovered that you could sell greeting cards. But how many greeting cards would you have to sell to make $12,000 He figured it out, you know, pencil and paper, how many of you would have to sell. And this little nine year old, began going around first to the neighbours offering these beautiful greeting cards. And I suppose the nine year olds pretty cute and Mark was probably very cute. But he, he learned salesmanship. And in a couple of months, he not only earned the equivalent of $12,000, he had something like $6,000 left more to put in the bank, because he was completely relentless about it. He started out in concentric circles, no, first the closest neighbours, and then areas that he'd never even been before, but it knock in the door. And this cute little guy would say, by my breeding cards, he he earned more than he Well, he certainly got the racing bike, but but enough to put some in the bank. And he discovered which I recommend to everybody, that that kind of effort, it almost feats in itself. Because the more success he got, the more excited he got, the more he realised I can do this, I can do this. And he just relentlessly kept on. And, boy, I'm not sure I have grandchildren that that age, I'm pretty sure that they wouldn't earn $12. But maybe with an example like Mark, they might. So I love that story, because it's kind of inspirational. It's try and try and try and success feeds on itself.

Agi Keramidas  11:47  
It's indeed very inspirational. And one thing that, for me, it's very important coming out of that story. And there is that that phrase, you have in the book that pride of ownership, follows pride of ownership. So there the fact that he managed to do that it was by on his own efforts, that was even more important than having something like that, handed over to him. So that is, that was for me, a big reminder of how much small we appreciate something when we earn it, rather than when it's handed over or given to us. And

Mitzi Perdue  12:31  
I'll tell a personal part from from my own life. My father was the co founder of the Sheraton hotel chain, the time of his death, he owned 400 hotels, it would have been very easy for him to give me anything I wanted. But his answer always was earn it. And that made me relate so much to Mark's story, that yes, you you enjoy and treasure and value and get value out of things that you earn. So I loved that Mark's father told him earn it. It just makes for a better life when you earn it rather than having it handed to you.

Agi Keramidas  13:10  
This is a wonderful example. And it's great, because the book starts with seen Mark Victor Hansen as a young child, I will move a bit quicker. And there was the story in his when he was a teenager that he got inspired by The Beatles. And he started his own band, even without knowing the musical instrument. And there was a learning from this chapter that I will reiterate exactly as it's written, and feel free to comment on it afterwards. And it was that everyone has at least one superstar talent within them. But you won't discover it if you don't try. And that is that was for me something that I also personally related. And I'm sure that people can connect with that.

Mitzi Perdue  14:06  
Okay, the story and I treasured the story. It was told to me by Mark, but I also I interviewed 120 people for this book. So I got other people's views of it. And they all focus in around the following story. When the Beatles came to the United States, he and probably 80 million people. And that's a literal figure. We think 80 million people watched their first broadcast. And Mark, listen to this. And it was so exciting to him. At the end of it. He called several of his friends and said, We're going to form a band. And, you know, his friend said, Well, what musical experience do you have? Nothing. Could you play an instrument? Now? Do you know how to do any promoting? No, he was he was in a way completely up. prepared for what he wanted to do. But he had this burning desire to form a band. And the results were incredible. He, he, he and his little friends went out and bought instruments with money that they had earned. They learned to play them with no musical background of any sort. But they learned to play. In Mark's case, it was the bass guitar. And that that practice for hours and hours and hours. And you know, Mark had his little 16 year old, he had no experience with promoting, but if you've got a band, you got to promote it. His success by just plunging in and learning what it took to do what he wanted to do meant that this is, to my mind, almost incredible. But pretty soon, they started out, you know, playing in old age homes, then they began playing in service clubs. But pretty soon they were playing for, for the local community that rent large, like venues. And they could make $5,000 An evening. And there were times when he and his little friends were making more money in one night than his own father would make in a year. And, you know, as you said, what he learned from that is, you might have superpowers that you never would have even dreamed of, if you hadn't put yourself out there and tried. And his skill as a promoter, he was the only one in the band, as far as I can tell, who did any of the real promoting. But you do go around to different groups and say, You got to hear our music, or let us up. Let's see, he had put ads in the local newspapers, he, he developed his skills at age 16, to promote on a scale where they could fill concert halls. I mean, just amazing. And they kept at it for two years. And then there's a little side story to this, that I also treasure, which is Mark told me that he had been kind of an indifferent student up until this point. But now all of a sudden, they're doing three or four concerts a night. They're also practising new music so that you know, so that that stay fresh and relevant, that makes sure that they could play the 10 top hits. So yeah, that takes a huge, enormous amount of time. What did that do to his grades, they went up, he became an ace student, as opposed to like a b minus student. And he said, part of what happened was, we only had a limited amount of time we'd been the band members, we only had a limited amount of time to do our studies. So we weren't just as hard as we could add it. And so another little lesson is that if you work full on as hard as you can, you can get as much done in a few hours, as you might in five or six hours if you've had the leisure of that time.

Agi Keramidas  18:10  
That's a very big lesson indeed. And yeah, the more time you have to spend on something we tend to use up all the time, whereas if it is a very short time, we will do it faster, or learn it faster, because we have to. And I will move a bit further. Fast forward even though there are other stories in between this in the book. And let's move to this when I first read it I was gobsmacked because I never knew that he Mark Victor Hansen went into a bankruptcy and you're describing the book how he lost $2 million at that time, which was an enormous amount of money literally, virtually overnight, and he became even suicidal. So I would like to focus on this story a bit more, because I think it is very important how what happened and how he was able to reframe, and change what happened with an amazing technique. Quite simple to you know, think about it, if only more people could do it. So please share with us medzi this story and the lessons and everything else that that is okay, I'm

Mitzi Perdue  19:35  
going to share bankruptcy and even thinking of suicide, but I want to make a little comment about this story before I tell it, which is now this is a very intimate story telling somebody who's thinking of ending his life. I mean, I don't know how much more intimate than that you can get. I showed it to mark before sending it to the publisher. And I was thinking, you know, if I'm intruding too much in your personal life, I'm ready to dial back because you're a good man and I, you know, I will allow you to, to edit it if you want the entire book, but particularly the story I'm about to tell, never changed even a comma. He was he was totally into telling the truth. Isn't that kind of amazing? Maybe it expected but but I was. I was kind of shocked that he was so in into allowing me to tell the story. In all its in how difficult the time was. And here's the story. Mark Victor Hansen. There, there is a very important and wonderful scientist engineer, Buckminster Fuller, and Buckminster Fuller, who was his major professor in college, Buckminster Fuller, had a way that he hoped would provide inexpensive, sturdy, really terrific housing for the world. Mark, Victor Hansen, wanted to carry this out. And he invested in geodesic homes, and it's a little hard to describe what they are, but just take my word for it. They're easily constructed houses out of very commonly available materials. But then in 1973, when Israel and the Arab world were at war, there was an embargo on oil. And oil was the feedstock for the materials that could build the houses that that mark, Victor Hansen, was creating and selling, all of a sudden, because he couldn't get the raw materials, oh, my gosh, he couldn't, he couldn't meet any of the expenses, or the debts that he owed. And in a very short period, like even a couple of weeks, Mark, Victor Hansen, went bankrupt. And he told me, and that was one of the most awful periods in his life, because he was letting down so many people, even the people that he owed money, the people, or the even bigger picture of trying to provide inexpensive, sturdy, valuable housing that could be a model for the world. And it was the worst time in his life, he told me that he ended up sleeping on the floor. Outside of there was a rental house that was shared by four people. And he was sleeping on the floor on blankets on the floor, outside of one of the bedrooms. And in the middle of the night, he'd be thinking, I'm worthless, it's not just that I let down everybody else I've let down me. He started to think is life worth living. And he was kind of, you know, in a moment of complete desperation, toying with the idea of ending his life. And then he decided to ask God in a prayer just from the deepest from the heart. Now in the middle of the of a sleepless night. What am I here for? What should I be doing with my life? And as Mark tells the story, he got this answer, which was, what do you most want to do with your life? And Mark realised, you know, what I really want to do with my life. I want to help other people. I want to give people information that will help them lead better and fuller lives. Okay, so he felt that that answer, you know, the answer came because he felt God had asked him the question, what do you really want to do? Well, if what you really want to do is help others. What business do you have thinking of ending your life? No, do what what it will take to help others. And he he reasoned out that he wanted to be a public speaker.

Mitzi Perdue  24:12  
And he said, and he told me, you know, by asking that question, the answer came to him, and then he felt that a whole series of miracles happened the next day, because the next day, one of his, one of the people who lived in the house said, You know what, Mark, I've got a ticket to an inspirational speaker. Of Why don't you use my ticket because I can't use it. Mark went to hear the speaker and he at that point decided, I will be a public speaker. He made friends with the guy who's the public speaker, who told him, Mark, don't even bother. Not one person in 1000 can make a living out of public speaking. And Mark said, I'm one of those one in 1000 Because I'm going to do it. Tell me what to Do and the guy gave him some pointers on what to do. But he gave him a very, very, very important piece of information, which was, don't wait till you're ready, because then you'll never do it. No plunge in right now start speaking. Well, the guy, the speaker, went on vacation for like a month, he came back and asked Mark how he was doing. Mark had arranged to give like three talks a day, every day, and sometimes five talks a day. And with all that practice, he became extraordinarily good at it. He became so good that later on in life, he could get paid almost a quarter of a million dollars for a series of three speeches. But yeah, there's several lessons to learn from that. But among them, if you're absolutely desperate, call on you know, if you're religious Colin, God, if you're not religious, Colin, the higher power that is available to you. I mean, if you call on it, I believe that somehow whether you Marshal your own resources, or whether it's a higher power, I personally believe in the higher power but in the lifetime, and I'm at one, by the way. So I have observed this a lot in my life, that when you call on something bigger than you, you get answers. And shortly after that, Mark also began attending church. And he realised that all his negativity, wasn't doing him any good. He needed to reframe everything, and just to push out all the negative thoughts and embrace, embrace the I can, I will, I'm going to, and by reframing his approach to life, he changed his life. And as I said, for going from somebody who was bankrupt and suicide, he went to somebody who could eventually make a quarter of a million dollars in through with three talks.

Agi Keramidas  26:58  
Thank you. And the way that you share this was, I really enjoyed it. And for me, the learning, there are many but the key one in this story. Is this asking ourselves what it is that we really want, because many people just fail to do this simple thing of asking the answer, I believe it is within us. If someone wants to think of an outside the bigger force God, it doesn't matter how one holds it, in my opinion, the answer is there. And by asking it, it will come it's just a matter of asking the answer is within us. So that was for me a very big learning and a very big reminders actually of the power of asking for answers and and getting them. And maybe I will move on in the story I know that we could stay needs of them for for a very long time and discuss it and I will move on to actually the Chicken Soup for the Soul, which is the book that mark with Jack Canfield. His calls are made them the people that became very well known and sold over half a billion books in total. And again, with the book I didn't, I was not aware of what happened as a result of, you know, the difficulties, the challenges, the adversities that they had in publishing this book and the amount of hard work and sacrifice that they put in, I remember reading something like they had 144 rejections from publishers before they got published. They would, when they started to try to get promoted, they would wake up heavily at 3am to do an interview because they were on different time zones. Some of the things that you know, when you see someone successful, you don't see what led to that. And again, that comes very much from the from the book, the the methods that you know what, what you say is not what led to that. And so, I would like you to share the story about the creation because also the creation and how the name was it was very interesting and we can stay on this topic and discuss the many, many key points and learnings that there are there.

Mitzi Perdue  29:55  
Yeah, to my mind, that's almost the heart and soul of the book because When Mark Victor Hansen and Jack Canfield got together to write this book, they wrote it for a reason that I think applies today. They wrote the book, probably 30 years ago, don't hold me to that timeframe. But when they wrote the book, they felt that the world was hurting. They felt that there was so much difficulty in the world, that people would be hungry for things that would be uplifting, and give them strength and courage and information. And both men, they were public speakers, both men felt that in the course of their speaking, that they had accumulated a whole lot of really inspirational stories, the kind where that gives you, you hear the story, you've got the energy and the direction, to do better to go farther, to not give up. They had all these stories. And one day, Mark and Victor mark and and Jack Canfield were just friends talking about how inspirational their stories were. And they had the idea, why not put them together in the form of a book, your stories, my stories, let's put them together? Well, they, they probably spent a year or so working on this book, I mean, among among the other things that they were doing in life, but they really believed in it, because again, they wrote it because they felt that the world was hurting. And this was a way of encouraging people. But the, the title of the book was Chicken Soup for the Soul, and Chicken Soup for the Soul. The idea came it started with, with both men thinking we need a really good title for this, one that that really conveys that we're about helping people. And they just couldn't come up with a title. Then one night, they both decided to meditate on it separately, they're living 100 miles apart. And so they both meditated, you know, kind of asking what would the best title be? And Mark got a phone call from Jack, you know, in the wee hours of the morning, maybe it was two or three in the morning saying, Mark? I know, I know what what the title should be. It should be chicken soup, because I think of my mother and my grandmother when things were bad. That give us chicken soup. And Mark added to that, well, it's for the soul, not for the body. And so now they had the title. So they now had the book and they had the title. How do you sell it? Well, the title, which has been extraordinarily successful Chicken Soup for the Soul. A lot of people didn't see it that way. Jack Canfield assistant, quit, because she said, this is such a Mickey Mouse kind of foolish title. Nobody will want it. And you're you're lowering the brand. I don't want to be part of it. She quit. They hired an agent to help them find a publisher. The agent said, I hate the title. And they said no, we really like it. He he tried with 20 different publishers to to sell the book. And finally, something that doesn't happen very often, the agent has fired his clients, because he said nobody wants a book of stories written by somebody else. Nobody wants a book with this funny title. So now the two men are on their own. And they keep I think it was for like a year and a half. They kept calling in different publishers doing everything they possibly could. And finally, there's something called the American Booksellers Association convention. It's three days, and you have the men, Mark, Mark Victor Hansen. And Jack Canfield aren't just going around to all the publishers have probably 1000s of them. And over and over again. Not only were they turned down, but people wouldn't even look at them because of the title of the book. Oh my gosh. Finally, the last day, they met somebody who said

Mitzi Perdue  34:30  
I'll give it a look. But I don't make any promises. The guy took the book. And then when he was in the airport, he did what nobody else had done. He started reading the book. And he said it was so moving, that he was starting to cry. And he was feeling self conscious because he's thinking here I am in an airport. I'm a grown man. I've got a book in my hand and I'm crying. And he was wondering what what you would all the people in the airport are thinking of Um, but he, you know, he felt the book really had something. But he didn't want to commit without his partner, his partner read it. And the two partners agreed and they, they bought the book or the rights to the book. They said, You know, this is a little niche book, it might tell, sell 20,000 Mark, and Jack said, No, it's gonna sell a million. And the publisher said, You guys are crazy. And oh, my gosh, the first few weeks of when the book came out. Who couldn't even believe this? The book bombed, nobody would review it, the booksellers wouldn't carry it. If you're going to have a best seller, you know, it's a really good sign if you can sell 5000, the first week they sold at the book was bombing. So now what do you do? Nobody likes the book. Nobody likes the title. Who could have ever even dreamed that one day it would, it would be in the Guinness Book of World Records. Since since the booksellers in general wouldn't carry it, they began giving it away. And then something wonderful happened. And oh, is this effort, the value of persistence and not giving up? You know, here, they had gone through 144 Different turn downs. And I believe it was 143 turns downs in the 140/4 said yes. But then nobody's buying it, they begin giving it away. And people would be given a book, say at one of their talks, that take it home, and think oh my gosh, this is this is life changing. And they'd go by five more. And Mark and Jack, they, they would accept radio interviews, sometimes five or six a night and speaking engagements on top of that. And within a year and a half, they had sold more than a million copies. But, you know, if they had given up by it seem to have bombed at the beginning, we wouldn't have a half a billion books in print from the Chicken Soup for the Soul series. And I would like to invite our listeners just to imagine where What resources can you call on to avoid giving up because it might be you know, the next step that you take that might bring the success that you wanted, don't give up too early.

Agi Keramidas  37:41  
It's certainly a very important lesson. And there is that phrase that says that successful people do what the unsuccessful people are not willing to do. And that involves personal sacrifices. It involves doing hard work and hustling and doing reverse there was a story that I laughed when I read it that they were doing a book. They would they would sign the book in a mall. And there was no one there. So Mark went out and he was telling to people, you know what, there is a book signing by Jack Canfield and Mark Victor Hansen in five minutes. You don't want to miss it. And there were lots of people that went there. It is something that I can think of many people that will say, Well, that's it no one has teamed up with what can we do, but he turned that around. And it is incredible, this kind of persistent. And I think also what's important for me, reading it was this underlying mental positive attitude, if I can call it that, that doesn't let these adversities or these obstacles stop him and finding the resourcefulness and resilience to you know, take some corrective action, something different and, you know, move on, move on. And that's a very, very inspiring story with so many learnings that one can pick from that.

Mitzi Perdue  39:25  
Yeah, and among them, you know, your story about the two authors, they're in a mall. They're in a bookstore, and they've got hundreds of books they'd like to sell. And yes, there are people in the mall but there's nobody say the thing is supposed to start at 10 in the morning, and there's not a single person there. Yeah, how are you going to make a presentation to empty air? And I Like You I find it just beyond fascinating that somebody has the self confidence and the energy and Just the complete resistance to failure that he would go out. And it's called Audience capture, you'd go out to your complete strangers and say, Hey, there's there's an important talk, that's going to happen in three minutes at the bookstore over there. You don't want to miss it. I mean, I find that inspiring because by nature, I don't think I'd have the courage to do that. But now that I have the example that yeah, it can be done. I mean, he was facing absolutely certain failure if nobody showed up. But instead, pretty soon, a group of people were listening, and that, that showed people that something was going on, and more people began to come. And pretty soon there's a crowd listening to them talk and find their books. But, you know, I don't think it's in the repertoire of the average person to even conceive of doing the kind of thing that Mark did. But as you say, the learnings in that are, how about going beyond your comfort zone, and trying harder, and being willing to fall on your face? Oh, Mark, just, well, the title of the book expresses at all, he was relentless. He wouldn't give in, he wouldn't give up. And I also think that there's, it's a little bit hard for me to put into words, but there's something that's it's almost a lack of ego, where, where you just plunge ahead and do it, you don't have the little voices in your head saying you can't do it. Don't do it. Don't be stupid. He doesn't listen to those. I think most people that I know, do listen to little voices of saying, Oh, it's a failure. Oh, it's not going to work. And giving up mark, those voices just don't reach him somehow. He's He's good at screening them out.

Agi Keramidas  41:56  
Just as a brief comment, a and it is great. We talked about the bankruptcy earlier. And how, honestly, and Vaughn Lynam vulnerably, he shared that with you and, and with the reader of the book, of course. And there is also another failure or I see it in a way, like a balancing of you know, the the successes and the tenacity. And that was with his first wife. And this is something that I don't think it fits into the conversation of what we do. So I will just let that go. But I'm only mentioning it because it is there. And there is, you know, the other side, it's never, you know, all successes without failures or all good things without the other side. So I'm just mentioning that. I don't know, if you want to,

Mitzi Perdue  42:56  
could we get into the merit? We can? Yes, we can. Thank you. But we can do it very briefly. But he did have a totally failed marriage failed so badly that his wife wasn't willing to talk with me and his children weren't willing to talk with me. I mean, I would say that on the scale of failed marriages, whose was a big failure, it did last something like 27 years. But it, it did end badly. And I think there were three court cases involved with it. So. So total failure in his marriage, but he learned from it, his his marriage, now, I would describe as you go, I get to see him and Crystal together fairly often. And he learned so much from the mistakes of the first marriage that he'll never make with the second marriage. And I take that as a very hopeful thing, because people who failed at the first marriages, learn the lessons, whatever you did wrong, don't do it again. And it's it was a recipe for an extraordinarily happy marriage with his second wife, his his real wife.

Agi Keramidas  44:06  
Thank you. And there are two more topics that I wanted to discuss about. Both of them I find also personally very interesting. So I would love to hear your thoughts and approach on that. And the first one was the concept of giving or tie think this giving away 10% of what you earn, which from my understanding reading the book is that Mark has been doing that from a very young age and he said that the more I gave, the more I received and I believe it is a topic that there are still many misconceptions about it's not so much shared or discussed. Maybe there it is in the religious sense or when you read about it in that Bettina. other way, sounds like personal development word, world, you don't hear that very much as a method. And forgive me for using the word method. But sometimes it's in the broad sense of the word, this method of creating abundance by giving. So that's certainly a topic that I would love to hear your, your thoughts about?

Mitzi Perdue  45:27  
Well, from a very young age, Mark did decide to, to give 10% of his earnings. And I endorse that. I, one of the things that I do when I'm not writing a biography of Mark Victor Hansen, is I study and write about what makes family businesses last. And there's almost no family business that lasts unless it's discovers philanthropy. And it's, you know, one of the learnings from Mark is that, oh, well, how do I even put it that, that giving back enriches you just, I mean, I really believe that it's more blessed to give than to receive, in the case of Mark, the charities that he supported. The joy that that gives him I mean, even like donating blood, he's he helps the Red Cross by encouraging people to donate blood, and he gives blood and he makes donations, his his whole life is about giving back. And I kind of think, well, I kind of, let me quote Mother Teresa, Mother Teresa said that her life was a feast of unending joy. And her entire life was about giving back. And I think, I mean, who am I to evaluate Mother Teresa, but it does seem to me that, that she was on the exact right track, and that Mark Victor Hansen tapped into that, that if you want to be happy, think what you can do for others. And it worked for him, it gave him a life of incredible abundance.

Agi Keramidas  47:09  
Thank you. And it was what you mentioned also about the blood or giving, it's not necessarily only the money, it's also other things to our talents, or our time or, or even our smile when we give, but the given and thank you for setting in such a way. Maybe there is also one last topic that I want to discuss with you. And it's at the end of the book entities in a way that one of the call to actions of the book, or if not the call to action, and that is to think about our own story, or even better write it. And so I would, I would like to hear a bit more about that will quote something I read the way that it is described, it says you say create your own, or Mark says, create your own redemptive story because I can be sure that you've been some through some rough times in your life. So write your story. And in fact, write your autobiography. Because in this way, there is a multitude of benefits not only for yourself as you write it, but also for the people that will read it. So that is something that I find fascinating, it you know, I had been thinking about that for myself, now it pushes me a bit more to actually start creating it. So I would really like to hear you discuss about this concept of writing our story on short autobiography. And

Mitzi Perdue  48:58  
well, I want to call on your Greek background, because it was Plato who said the unexamined life is not worth living. And when you write your biography, no, in my family, we have a rule that by the time you're 60, you have to write your autobiography. And it can be 16 pages, which is the shortest I know of or it can be 1000 pages. But in the act of writing your autobiography, you will see patterns in your life. You'll also have a chance almost to be your own therapist, because you can put things into context you can you can just deal with with the rough parts of your life because you can put them in context. They're not your whole life. It's, I think it's, it's wonderful for yourself. You'll I mean, you'll you'll just know yourself better. What if you're not a writer? What if that doesn't come easily to you? And it turns out that there are a lot of people who will help you or they're even programmes We'll help you. So I invite people, well, maybe, maybe look up Mark Victor Hansen and biographies. And you'll, you'll find all kinds of steps to how to write your own biography. It's just one of the most valuable things that I can think of because it enables you to lead. It leaves some of yourself for after you're gone, and those who come after you can learn from your mistakes and benefit from the things that worked. It's it's a fabulous idea, and I recommend it to anybody.

Agi Keramidas  50:33  
Sentinelese it certainly is. And thank you for reminding me of the that quote by Plato about the unexamined life is not worth living. It's certainly something interesting for people to ponder on do do they examine their life and they will speak generally now it's even if you don't write your story, do you take time to examine your life and journal maybe or something like that? That comes from me. As I said, In the beginning, it is I found when I read the book, I found it intriguing, fascinating, I would probably be speaking for another couple of hours easily about the content of the book. But I hope that through this conversation, we touched upon some important things, some inspiration, I hope and some messages and actions that one can take. And certainly the listener can also take pick what resonated or even getting them some inspiration about these kinds of perseveration and perseverance, tenacity and not not giving up not quitting when there are obstacles. I want to ask, before we and a couple of maybe out of context, completely, quickly quickfire questions to you as major because I always ask my guests, they have nothing to do with a book, but I want your answers to this. And then we will also talk about what's the best place to find the book and, and so on. So my two quick questions is the first one is What does personal development mean to you? Actually, I will start with with that, what does personal development mean to you?

Mitzi Perdue  52:36  
Alright, the wish that I have for everybody is that they use all their talents and skills. i My wish for everybody is that they get to be all they can be. And I'm personally a complete addict of self improvement books I have been since I was a child, I started with Dale Carnegie, win friends and influence people, but I never stopped. And that's, by the way, part of what I admire about Mark Victor Hansen, because I think he exists to inspire people for self development.

Agi Keramidas  53:05  
Yes, absolutely. And one more quick fire hypothetical question. If you could go back in time and meet your 18 year old self, what's one piece of advice you would give him?

Mitzi Perdue  53:18  
I think it took me a long time to learn to believe in myself. So I would love to tell my 20 year old self, believe in yourself, you can do it, you can do it. Don't let all these little voices that are saying, Oh, it's too big. It's too hard. You've got all these problems? And I would tell them, can I say this? I would tell them Screw it. I would tell the little voices that are causing doubts, I would tell them to screw it.

Agi Keramidas  53:47  
This is a very, very good advice. And yes, I will also reiterate that just believe in yourself. It's so important. It's the most important thing because if we don't believe in ourselves, who will? Media. I want to thank you very much for this conversation for coming to the podcast and sharing the story behind Mark Victor Hansen biography that you wrote the book, I will put the links in the show notes for people to find it easily. So my understanding is that it's everywhere. You can find it on Amazon, all the bookstores, etc. And I will also put the link to the Mark Victor Hansen library for people to check which was what we were talking about. Writing once stories so again, I want to thank you very much. I really enjoyed the conversation. As I said, I could could probably speak a few more hours about this. I know I could carry on I think that you could as well. So any any last parting words from you?

Mitzi Perdue  55:01  
I would absolutely love it if you would go to my website it's called relentless dot V I P. So it's not you'd expect it to become but no, I have gotten the extension of VIP so relentless dot VIP, and write to me. And if you write to me, I'll give you a free copy of the book. That's amazing because I would love to talk with you

Agi Keramidas  55:27  
means it thank you very much for our conversation. It's been

Mitzi Perdue  55:31  
pure joy thank you

Agi Keramidas  55:40  
i hope you enjoyed listening and that you got a huge amount of value from today's episode. If you have please share this episode with someone who you think will benefit from it. If you want to know more about me and what I do, visit my website AGIKERAMIDAS.COM