#242 The superpower of dyslexia and the benefits of dyslexic thinking in business, with James Martin.

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION

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Please note that while an effort is made to provide an accurate transcription, errors and omissions may be present. No part of this transcription can be referenced or reproduced without permission.

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James Martin  0:00  
...Sold many businesses, we have a multi million pound operation that we run now with with their property portfolio and hotels. My world is spent by delegating. I delegate the workout and I let people work for me in a way that they enjoy it and they they understand my situation. And we make it quite clear. And we employ plenty of dyslexic people within our operation, because their thinking is extraordinary. It goes the extra mile.

Agi Keramidas  0:35  
You are listening to personal development mastery podcast where you will find inspirational conversations and actionable takeaways to master yourself and improve your life. I am your host Agi Keramidas. And my mission is to inspire you to grow, stand out and take action towards a purposeful and fulfilling life. In this podcast, I invite myself inside the minds of successful entrepreneurs, authors, spiritual teachers, thought leaders, people who share their journey, milestones and failures for you to be inspired to grow. In each episode, you will find actionable takeaways that you can implement right now, so make sure you follow the podcast to get them as soon as they are released. I remind my regular listeners here that for a short while the podcast will have one episode a week rather than two. Today's episode is about dyslexia. Many of us think of Dyslexia as a disadvantage in life, but my guest today goes as far as to call it a superpower. Let's dive right in. In today's show, I am delighted to speak with James Martin. James, you are a pioneer for Dyslexics in business. You are a self made millionaire, having forced your way to success despite the odds and despite being unable to read or write. Like many Dyslexics your school experience was fraught with failure and frustration. But half a century on you have created a multimillion pound business empire. And you're now dedicating yourself to helping other Dyslexics you are passionate about creating awareness of the benefits of dyslexic thinking in business, and you're actually called dyslexia and unseen superpower. James, welcome to the show. I'm delighted to speak with you today and exciting.

James Martin  2:47  
Thank you very much.

Agi Keramidas  2:49  
It seems like we'll ask you about your story in a minute. But before we go there, let's give the listeners some definitions and some numbers as well. So what is dyslexia? And how common is it?

James Martin  3:05  
Dyslexia is a digestion of information to the brain. So if you look at the numbers, it is something like 10% of the population are perceived as dyslexic, and in different spectrums of Dyslexia as well and severities. What is dyslexia dyslexia is is is a way that the brain receives the information and where it goes in, in the in the common areas of the brain, it would, it would go to the to the right hand hemisphere of the brain. And in most Dyslexics, it doesn't, it travels through the brain and around the brain to do join up and make a fusion of hardwired information. And because of our I always use the analogy that it's like having telegraph poles that are too far apart, the Dyslexic wires that go between the two that they just don't fuse fast enough, or hard enough. So it means that constantly the brain is doing a harder job to understand something and what that does, it can cause frustrations, for digestion of inflammation. And that's sort of a broad a broad outline that yeah,

Agi Keramidas  4:21  
of course, I don't want to spend too much time into the specifics of that because it is very complicated okay, but to create some context and I will also be creating some context a context I will say that it is extraordinary what you have achieved, despite not being able to read or write or, or go live so, so I will start with your story and let's go back to your, your school years, I suppose you were stigmatised as, as a child like illiterate or probably you've been called thick I suppose these are common in situations can you tell me when did you first discover that you had dyslexia.

James Martin  5:07  
I discovered it far too late or they discovered it far too late. It was probably when I was 12. And you're going to understand that the school curriculum is set up from sort of four to six to learn to read. And then from six onwards to read to learn. So for someone that had never learned to read it unplanned catch up all the time. So what happened in my case was I ended up being the naughty, disruptive child because I didn't understand what was going on with me. For me not to be bullied and stigmatised by the other peers and classmates, I became the Joker, I became the hero climb the flagpole, first, you know, Nick a bike out of the bike sheds and ride off home on it to become the distraction from WHO. And what I couldn't do was stand up in the classroom and read and be like all of the other, or most of the other students. Normal, I think that, you know, children at school, they're about impressing each other. And they just want to be part of the herd and be together and be like each other and be liked by one another. And commonly, I was pulled out of the normal stream of school classrooms and put into a special needs class. That was very humiliating. And I was in with with lots of other poor students that didn't know why they were there. Either. They're either bullies or they were, they were there was children that are having problems at home, or they're autistic, or they were dyslexic, or that you know, they had all the all the learning digestion problems moulded into one classroom, and then some poor teacher to try and drum some type of sentence into them. It wasn't a happy environment by far. And I ended up being taken eventually with quite a bit of effort from my parents into the school to be tested. Some one of his teachers came up with it must be something I've heard about this new thing, dyslexia. So off, I went to have a test. My parents were asked to come into the school to headmaster's office and sat down with me in the middle, a little old me sitting there not knowing really what was going on. And they gave us the unfortunate news that your son is hirings, scoring high on having dyslexia, all the blank faces in the room, I'm not even sure the headmaster understood exactly what it was, my parents definitely didn't. And all I really understood Aggie was I had now an excuse, that if you wanted me to be in a French class, I could put my hand up and say, I'm sorry, but hadn't you heard? I have dyslexia. So what's the point? So at that point, that say, 12, I just gave up, I didn't actually bother trying anymore, because I had this label. And I was quite weary from it. And we were very worn out by then. And I just went off, and I was a good learn, I learned lots of stuff, but they were more in a practical aspect. I was living in a pub that my parents ran, I was listening to adults in the corner of the bar talk about their businesses and their trials and tribulations of what they did. And I was picking up most of my, my digestion from from adults at that stage, then I enjoyed it.

Agi Keramidas  8:39  
It was something you said that you gave up, try to learn at school when you were 12. Can you tell me when all in how did you start overcoming this, you know, a mentality of give up and I can't learn.

Unknown Speaker  8:55  
It definitely wasn't about I couldn't learn it was about I didn't want to read or try reading and writing because it was just far too painful. The the EFA is, is the frustration and the effort was too much. And I didn't see the logical sense in phonics and how the the English that we know today comes from like four different countries, and from an archaic background of how it was collated and put together, magic key, not necessarily silent P not always. So in my very logical brain, a lot of it was a bit of a fast and a bit of a made up scenario, that you either had to learn all the foibles to understand it, or for my brain that was just too much of a complicated digestion. So I just stopped and I went on to learning lots of stuff, but not through reading and writing. So I wanted to learn about custom cars and hot rods and stuff. So I went to a hot rod shop and hang out as a 12 year old until they asked me to hold a spanner for them. And then I learned about that. And then I wanted to learn about doing tree cutting. So I went to a place where they cut through it, you know, it was it was almost as simple and as basic as that. And I enjoyed learning most children love learning. But if the mechanism to learning is forced in one direction through reading and writing, then that's, that's crippling the person for their digestion.

Agi Keramidas  10:27  
I will make a quick comment here, because you said about the rules in the phonetics of the English language. And I will add to that, because my English is not my mother language. But there are many times that it doesn't make any sense why something reads the way that it reads. So you just have to learn it as it is without a logical explanation. But going back to what you were saying, there was something when I was reading your story that made a big impression on me about you dealing with the fact that you were, you know, unable to read and and write, you say that you had to find ways to operate in the world, because obviously, it's one thing listening to conversations and learning through another way. But there are situations that inevitably you will have to read something in order to, you know, in daily life. So do you want to share this part of

James Martin  11:30  
your most days, I would get up and it's just like walking around in a foreign country. Because if you wanted to be private and exist, you would read the signs and go to the bank or go to the library or go to wherever you were going to go by reading signs or reading a magazine article about something. So what is forced upon you and as most Dyslexics, I'm sure, listening to this will resonate, but you have to by default, become a people person, you have no choice, you have to ask directions, you have to ask questions, you have to learn how to delegate tasks. And commonly I created in an environment that I could operate in. Because I just didn't know I knew in my heart of hearts that I had the same brain cells in there, they just weren't picking up the stuff, how others could do it. And I, I really understood that from very early that I wasn't, I wasn't an unintelligent person, I got stuff, things joined up in my brain, but they joined up through understanding them in a rounded way. So I would understand that if we were going to go to a football match, that it's probably better that to take a spare jacket or something because I could, I've studied the way that I did weird stuff as a child who's very strange, but I did cover off bases for me. But there were mainly practical things that I saw. And I see myself doing that now. It even in my business world, I will try and future eyes, the thought process of what I'm going to do and what I'm about. But it was creating an environment to operate in. So very, very quickly, I ended up having people working for me when I was just 17. And by the time I was 18, I probably had about 24 people working directly for me cutting grass and doing tree tree work. But it was in my terms with my environment, with with a private secretary reading my mail, and answering the phone and taking notes and steering me. And I still want to do that today. I have Christina that you've spoken to leading up to this, this podcast with you and she runs my world for me and make sure that I'm prepped each day to walk around on this planet and operate in a non red scenario for better word.

Agi Keramidas  14:05  
And this environment that you said that you have created to operate in and also how dyslexia affected your entrepreneurial journey are going to I will come to that in a moment. There was something earlier on when I was asking you about the ways that there are some situations that you can't really change the environment you're in and what comes to mind for example, is when you go to a restaurant, you have to read the menu. Yeah, there is. It is something that you can't really change that yourself, can you

James Martin  14:43  
I talked about that being focused events, and let let your listeners understand. Today I do not write my own name and address. It's something I will struggle to do. So that's where my severity of dyslexia is because there's there's there's diff grades a bit, obviously, on the spectrum. I like going out for food and I would enjoy it, you know, do you ask your girlfriend in front of everybody else or the company you're with to read you the menu menu at an intimate table at a focused event, it is not acceptable. And it's not something that you want to do every day and be in that situation. So you find yourself having tricks and flicks that you would use. And I would commonly let everybody else order first, I would commonly eat anything, because I would just put my finger on something that I thought looked nice. And then I'd end up eating oysters that I've never eaten before, but I got used to it. So there was that. And, and in the end, you groomed and groomed it to you would you would commonly even today I would go at going and let everybody order and when it got round to my turn, I would speak to the waiter and just say to him, you know, how are the team getting on in the kitchen, you've been in and out of there. Tonight, what's looks really good, what's fresh in today. And he would suggest a fish or a cut of beef or something. And then I could make my choice from those two. And usually it was a very good choice. But it allowed me to put the menu down look that look interested in their world and what they're doing and talk about him and big smiley face. And it becomes back again to being a social person and a people person, because I'm delegating the reading of the menu to him. And in any my businesses and my many businesses sold many businesses, we have a multi million pound operation that we run now with with their property portfolio and hotels. My world is spent by delegating, I delegate the workout and I let people work for me in a way that they enjoy it. And they they understand my situation. And we make it quite clear. And we employ plenty of dyslexic people within our operation. Because their thinking is extraordinary. It goes the extra mile.

Agi Keramidas  17:14  
Keep on meaning to ask you about your intrapreneurial journey. But other questions come into my mind. So we'll get to that. Was there some point that you felt because there is a certain stigma associated with being dyslexic? Maybe not not for everyone, but was there a point that you overcame it or went on the other side and didn't mind sharing that or having to share it?

James Martin  17:45  
I have given it an example that when I've when I say was in my 20s We probably had about 35 people working for us I used to do the bank role. So we'd go and do the wages. And we would go into the local branch queue up there was usually the same lady was at the tail. And I push the chequebook through and she would fill out the words and the amount the amount was already filled out. But you'd fill out the words for me and fill out my stub give me the chequebook back and take the check and give me the money and I can pay the wages. I don't mind telling people that I can't read and write and it sometimes it just becomes agonisingly too much. In that situation that bank. The lady wasn't there was another person working big queue in the bank. It was Friday it was busy people were queuing behind me. I gave the lady the chequebook and said, Well, could you just fill it out? And she pushed the chequebook back through the window and said no, you have to do that. And I said by gently pushing it back or actually I can't. Could you do it for me. And she just spent a spin around on her seat and looked into the back office that were all the other clerks and bank people working and launched into I have a customer here that can't read and can't fill out the check. Are we allowed to do that is that I'm not too sure what what we're meant to do. Aggie by the time she turned back, I'd gone I'd left the bank. It was my local bank, you know and I just I just you know I was a young man with this this sort of small small business around me. And the humiliation from it was just too much on that particular day. And I left and and you know I say I'm dyslexic James out in the open now that's who I am and that's how I operate. And I think that more in today's world more people have to be open about their their abilities. And I see I see I do see it as a superpower. I do see it as an advantage. And I want to promote that to other Dyslexics to start thinking in that way because the minute I saw it as the advantage was the minute that I started getting back the usage of it I had to change the inner voice in my head to start seeing in a positive outlook as opposed to seeing it as a disability and and why you're you're talking in your own head that it is a disability, it will always be a disability, you need to change your your, your inner voice of how you how you approach the situation.

Agi Keramidas  20:34  
Let's talk about this then the superpowers as you say in the advantages, can you be a bit more specific, you already said that you had to hone your social skills and become a people person as a result of that? What what are their advantages or superpower? Because it's it's a strong word to use. So but can you elaborate on that?

James Martin  20:58  
I think I think that the reason i i can bring is provocative to say that it is a superpower. If you look at famous Dyslexics, they're pretty smart bunch, and they're right up there from you know, Steve Jobs to Richard Branson to all these different characters that have heard of the saying that they've they've been sort of moulded by their dyslexic power. And the power is that when when that, that question or that that that problem comes into your brain, it goes around the hole of the brain looking for a fuse. Now, if it was something that you were just reading or doing, it will go to the reading area, that is hardwired to receive that information. But because you're seeing your information is coming into your head, and your ears going round, the emotional side of your brain, logical side, what I call future proofing, what an idea might look like in the future, but be careful what decision you make now. So the Dyslexic brain has reach, because every time it has a problem to solve, it's like a brand new set of fusions. So because it's brand new, then they're becoming creative. And it's the creative side of the Dyslexic brain. That is the advantage because it's allowing you to see and not be crowded by existing thoughts, existing fusions in the brain, existing standards that are already been fused in the brain and already been set down. It commonly will look at everything new. So when we say that doctors talk about we only use 10% of our brain, I think the Dyslexics use much more because they work so much harder to come up with ideas and solve problems and digest information. Because it does it does a smaller Olympic route round the brain before it comes up with an answer.

Agi Keramidas  22:57  
We were saying before so before we started recording, you are saying that you believe that Dyslexia has shaped you into the intrapreneur. And the person that you are today and I was making some notes you said about you talked about the creative side that Dyslexia has given you the problem solving apart from the the social skills being a people person. And I think in my in my mind listening to these things, they are certainly skills that an entrepreneur needs to have or rather needs to be good at actually problem solving social skills, creativity, you can't really go far in entrepreneurship with without that.

James Martin  23:43  
Yeah, I think that it you go to that route, because it's somewhere where you can create your own environment. Because when I left school, I couldn't even become the delivery van driver because I couldn't read the addresses, I could drive the van okay, but it's no good unless you can read those addresses and stuff. So you create an atmosphere and an environment that you can work in. So commonly that self employment or it might be manual work, or it might be art or something that or music or something else that you can do that doesn't involve you having those focused events where you're, you're put on the spot to be able to be conforming to the normal standard of reading and writing. And, and I think that that that is the is the real the real key to it. I am shaped by Janelle Aggie, I talk about me being shaped by dyslexia and I think the real truth of it is if I had done okay at school, I probably have a great okay job now, but because I felt I had something to prove and I knew that there was more in me than that. And I was stigmatised and sort of bruised. A bit of time I left school I felt a bit beaten out by all, it wasn't the greatest experience. So I wanted to prove and my insecurity because of those, those, those younger days have made me constantly not want to look a fall. And I talk about this when I've do some some lectures and stuff now to students that wanting to wanting to succeed, wanting to prove to the world or to your mum, whoever you want to prove it to, but you feel that there's something you want to prove. And that's kind of lived with me. Even today, when I we've had a massive team meeting here today. And we've been constantly talking about us looking and being perceived correctly with any in any of the businesses that we run. And, and that is not everybody gets that. Well, I talked about failure, Aggie. I failed every day at school. So when you talk about failure to me, yes. And you talk about someone that's not done lots of failing, they probably won't start a business purely on the point that they will have a failure against them, and they won't want it they don't know how it feels. What's your tastes like? What's the stigma? What will people say about me? For me, failure is fab. I love it, because it means I'm learning, learning learning, not going to make that mistake, again, learning learning. And in the end, obviously, we're keeping the failing down now to a minimum. But my my teams that work with me, now my staff are encouraged to fail, they're encouraged to have an atmosphere where they can make mistakes, we're taught we have tough love at work. But we're also encouraged to try something, otherwise, we're just going to be the same people in the same business that like the same business up the road. And that's not, that's not how it works, the future is driven by new ideas, and people with with with the opportunity to make a difference. And that that that is actually the entrepreneurial spirit. And I promote that even though they are employees of mine, their heads of departments, we beat our head gardener that runs a team of five or our estate manager that runs a team of six, they are many entrepreneurs within their departments.

Agi Keramidas  27:20  
about failure, you were saying it reminded me of that same that failure is only if you don't get the lesson and you repeat doing the mistake otherwise it is it's not failure at all. And I think that's how we as human beings learn also by failing and not repeating the mistake. James? Well, there is certainly something that a topic that I want to discuss with you. So I have to I will have to switch gears a little bit abruptly now. And it is the the education system and because you are you're very passionate now with everything that you've been through and understood about yourself and dyslexia, you're very passionate about raising awareness, first of all about dyslexia and also helping people who are dyslexic to realise that they do not. They're not disadvantage, though. Instead of that they have advantage. So I wanted to ask you about education, because obviously, it's a big topic. What do you think needs to change in the education system to accommodate for this different model of learning that a dyslexic requires? And I think that question Will, might also be useful for someone listening that knows some dyslexic or maybe a child.

James Martin  28:56  
I think Aggie the, you know, we haven't got that long. So don't get me started on education. It is. It is archaic. When you look at what's going on with education, it hasn't really changed that much is that there's been some big changes in private education because there's money there. In the state education. I go into schools now. And I have people young people reach out to me that have had some terrible situations just recently. So it's far from from from moved forward. From when I was at school, it's different, but it's not that much better. In my humble opinion. I'm sure some teachers will tell me otherwise. And I'm sure there are some great teachers that are are tackling it. There needs to be more Century learning that the senses of being outside and learning in nature is not just for the Dyslexic person or the autistic person or the ADHD person that has a different digestion of learning. It actually helps all of the students in that classroom to learn in a way that is is is brought them with colour with pictures, words noise. So it has a full spectrum. We need sticky learning. Just because there's a there's a digestion. It doesn't mean it sticks, we need it. Well, it's digestive ly sticky. And that means that if we've got a kid there that's interested in football, let's find out how bigger football pitches and let's cut it in half and cut it in quarters and find it how many shirts there are. And if there was shirts, do we need spare shirts, or how many shirts would we need in the Washington spare? So you can do a whole maths lesson on the football pitch, you know, and if we've got girls that like ballet, then we can talk about ballet shoes and dresses. And we can talk about how many people in a company have ballet dancers. So there's lots of different ways. It takes time, it takes people being bothered to do it that way and to create an atmosphere, that is storytelling, digestion that sticky. And we need sticky learning. And that that that comes from effort and the change of policy, you know, we're getting into government serious stuff here. But something needs to change, because what they're doing at state schools at the moment, those jobs don't exist, that they're actually grooming the students for AI is coming to eat or the jobs anyway. So something needs to change that needs to change pretty quick. Because if I've got a 10 year old Edward, my own son who's quite quite severely ADHD, and he's being taught in a way now, that is very different than I was, but I'm paying for the education. And very lucky we are to be able to do that. But that isn't the case for many 1000s and 1000s of children. And the worry of their parents is that what can they do to add value to that? Well, they can talk to dyslexic groups, they can talk to me they can they can find their local dyslexic dyslexic association to help the situation but it learning in the round, you know, not a great advocator for for smaller classrooms. Aggie I think that that's a one to one and stuff. Children like to learn with their friends and their their colleagues and peers. So you know, classrooms can still be of 2023 strong, they, there's quite a bit. Studies have shown the herd move together better. But someone that's great at reading can be buddied up with someone that's not as fast as a dyslexic with them. But they can learn off of each other. And it's an organic way of doing it. That feels wishy washy, but it's not it's actually hasn't has a lot more memory. And I use the word stickiness with it. When you look at the system, it looks like a factory at school. And they're scoring you at the end of the month, and they're scoring you at the end of the year. Or you might not have digested that information as quick as the person next year. You know, we need some level of scoring somewhere. But the pressure that children get put under at the moment isn't isn't something that I I advocate at all, it is just too much at the minute from what I can say. And I'm holding my hands up here, I'm not I'm not a doctor or a teacher. I'm someone that's just been through the system myself. I've got children from 36 to 10 years old, and five of them. So I've watched the system happen from private and state education. And there are big changes need to be made. Children love learning. They just need to have the right environment to do that.

Agi Keramidas  33:42  
I think there are a few people listening to this that they would disagree that the education system is flawed as your you use the word the archaic it is indeed it's like 19th century if it's not from ancient times. I want to ask you also about your your book, your writing book. Do you want to tell me your reasons for writing it and who is it for?

James Martin  34:10  
We're done. We're hopefully getting it out in September. The idea of me of me doing that was to the audience for that book. Aggie was was really the parents of dyslexic children to help them have a calmer and more navigated way to helping the children be rounded people to come out come out the other end with with prospects. Parents that they're at, they are worried fearful. They've given this thing to their child. They're embarrassed. There's lots of emotions that those parents go through. I remember it with my own parents. So it's for parents. It's for young Dyslexics, it's for anybody listening that is in Interested in dyslexia. But there are lots of books out there argue, but they're mainly talking about the diagnostic of the brain with the machine that told you this side of the brain that the dendrites, the nodes, that I'm not a doctor, and I don't perceive to learn all of the knowledge of the brain, but what I do know is the experience of it, and how to work within the framework and how to use it to your advantage. And I talk about some goofy stories of me, you know, going through my business world of where we got to today, how we operate today, what school was like for me, and some tricks and flicks and some insight to, you know, calming the whole, the whole dyslexic. The way, the way we even diagnose dyslexia, you're not allowed to have a diagnostic test for dyslexia till you're seven. It's ridiculous. Why would you do that? There are telltale signs three and four. So the sooner you pick it up, the sooner you can make, make it better, or help the child do what they need to do. They just pile on homework onto children that are slower, that doesn't necessarily do anything, all it does is just frustrate the child, make them work at home with their parents that are really frustrated. So I give an insight to how to calm, calm the situation down and become the Dyslexic adults that they are going to be in a more relaxed and less pressured way. The more pressure we put on people, and students, the less they learn. I mean, that's a that's a good way of looking at it. Yeah.

Agi Keramidas  36:37  
Thank you for this answer. And tell me someone listening to this James who who is or knows someone with dyslexia? What if you could just offer one piece of advice, what would you tell him or her?

James Martin  36:58  
If you're if you're a dyslexic, I hopefully you've resonated with some stuff I've said and you understand it from from, you know, there's lots of people that write about dyslexic and can't comment, comment about it, you know, there's nothing like having the real experience explained to you from a real from a from a real, a real set of scenarios. So that's one thing. I think that learn how to love yourself, and you learn to love yourself as the Dyslexic person you are, be the Dyslexic person come out for a better word. You know, we were talking about inclusion, we talked about, you know, where we should be with making everybody accessible to jobs, etc. You need dyslexic people and autistic people and disruptors in your businesses. So, you know, become one of those, those people that can go in and help industry and commerce become the next thing because it's something I passionately believe with that there's a big space for the Dyslexic thinker with this rounded 360 approach. And this diverse way of looking at stuff. Again, I talked about the, the, the fad of reading and writing. No, this didn't come to the show, but yeah, sorry, preempted it, but the fact of it, because it's important, because what is happening, it's the late 18th century that it started becoming this factory format, that everybody had to do the three Rs Reading, Writing arithmetic. And that's what was drilled into everybody. And if you couldn't pick up on that, you were thrown on the scrap heap. What if we go back in time, who, who used to run the villages and the hunters and gatherers and and the social gangs back in the day, or they were properly dyslexic people that could understand weather, I can understand the seasons, I could understand animals, patterns of what they did, so they could go and find them to kill them again each year. I can understand berries and growths on trees and they had a more holistic and rounded approach to seeing what where they could help the tribe exist. And if you see that moving forward, now, that's happened with more inventive thinking from from all different people in industry now. I operate, reading and writing quite comfortably every day. Admittedly, I do have a PA that runs my life but outside of her, I have my phone that has technology in it text to read reads to text. I can't operate. AI is coming Aggie and there's no getting away from it. And the more the more more we accept that, that if it's coming that quick. I Think 2050? Will you need to read and write to exist in this world? Not necessarily, will it be a priority to drum into students their times table in that fashion that we've already done? Not really, there's that there's a, there's a calculator in every phone, do we need to be able to read and write these, these excruciatingly painful essays, not necessarily, you can just dictate them into a machine, and it will just write them up for you proofread it and send them to whoever needs to listen to it. It's more about the content of what you're thinking and working on, as opposed to whether you can actually physically read it or write it down. And I think that's what's more important. And it's a controversial statement. But think how long this planet's been rolling around, going around around in circles, there wasn't reading way back in the time. And it's only very, very recently, it's been with us. And it's caused a community of people quite a lot of pain.

Agi Keramidas  40:59  
It is there is no doubt that technology and AI are taking over and changing very much the way that we absorb information and accumulate information, what was controversial about what I was reading that you you said, and you you repeated it now that by 2050 known will probably need to read or write I think you had said something like it is it may just be for recreation as an activity. For me, even though I can understand the how this might happen, I would still argue for someone like myself, for example, I'm a very visual person, and I really need to read I find it very difficult to learn by listening to something if you tell me something, and you'll probably see me doing it all the time now that we're having this conversation, I write things down because I need to process them in such a way. So that was what I found that, yes, maybe and hopefully the technology will help incorporate all these elements and allow people that don't operate in such a way and that they don't about mean reading and writing. But same colony, the fact that for me is the controversial thing. I mean, I personally, I think of myself, if you take away reading and writing for me, I don't think I would be able to learn anymore. So that is my point of view, which is probably very opposite.

James Martin  42:45  
But But I think Aggie your, if you listen to what you've just described there that you take continuous notes as you go along, I take my notes, the same exact same as you. But they're all stored in my head, I have a fabulous memory because it's grown from not being able to take those notes down. So I can remember board meetings from 15 years ago. And I know that it was a three and a half percent split. And that's what we agreed, because I can run that video back in my head. And I am sharp as a razor, because I have my evolution of my brainpower has worked to cater for that in that format. Aggie I've put that statement out there as a controversial speaking point. That's what the thing is about a recreation sport for reading paperback books. I think I said, and I think that that is for some people, it, it just pricks them enough to have a conversation. And I think that's why I've released that. And that's why I talk about it in the book. But it you know, it is something that we will, you know, smoking was a bit of a fad. But we found that it was very harmful to your body, you know, so that's all that's coming to an end alcohol is probably coming to an end and other poison. I'm not aligning, reading and writing with that. But I'm just saying that it's from, from my my, my, my position where I am on on the side of the fence where it doesn't. It doesn't help my world. In fact, it actually hinders my world. I can move much faster in a more modern technical world where technology helps me move. I disregarded reading in the end because it was too painful. I watch people now that read super slowly and they tranche through stuff. And I was listening to an interview with Steven Spielberg. He goes over scripts, word by word is agonisingly painful, but he does it because he digests it better that way. He understands the content because that way, but it doesn't make it easier for him. He's just made it harder for him. But he's found an advantage in doing it that way. And I guess, if I was stuck on a desert island, and I needed to start up the generator, and there was a handbook, guess what, I would start reading the handbook, it might take me a week, but I would definitely read the handbook and get the generator started. So we talked about how we how we cruise through life. And I listen to audio, but I do two, two audio books a week and have done for 1515 odd years, I'm a big digester of information. It's very different when someone's reading it to you, because you're getting their input inflection on what they're that how they see it. So it's, it's kind of in a different way, you read something off the page, and you put your spin on it, and you put your, your take on how it is and that, that how it resonates with you in your brain how it goes in. So I do understand your commentary on it. And, and to the listeners here today, it was meant to cause conversation, so I hope it does.

Agi Keramidas  45:59  
Exactly, and that's why I mentioned it because it if not anything else, it is food for thought for someone to maybe see some different perspective on the way that they learn regardless of whether they are dyslexic or not. And you said something about Steven Spielberg and been this, you use the word agonising on or hinting word for word, and you made me wonder whether I have created this model of learning for myself, possibly I haven't. It's not like my brain was necessarily, you know, wired like that. So it's also interesting for me to process and think and ponder about that. So thank you for for the controversy. It's also it's always good to have this kind of, you know, interesting topics. And, James, this is a fascinating conversation and where I realised I'm very much aware of our time together. So I wanted to ask you also some quickfire questions to wrap things up. And you were saying that you have listened to my podcasts before. So you will know very

James Martin  47:13  
many. I've listened to many times. I'm getting ready. Now. I'm getting ready. Here they come. This is your style. Come

Agi Keramidas  47:24  
on. Tell me about personal development. What does it mean for you?

James Martin  47:29  
Everything. Everything. It's, it has changed my world from perhaps the last 24 years since I could get the on an iPad, to start listening to other people that had gone before me. It means everything to me, I love it. And it has changed me from a struggling human being to someone that had destiny and knew exactly what they wanted and how to get it. Thank you for asking me that. I said, Great. Thank you.

Agi Keramidas  48:00  
Thank you, and what's one, one book or resource or audio book that really made an impact on your journey?

James Martin  48:10  
You know, one of the first books that I really digested and listened to probably 12 to 15 times was the tipping point by Malcolm Gladwell. And I've gone on to listen to the rest of his work. He's a he's a lovely author. He's very, I suggest all of his works to listeners that are listening to this. He's a great author. He's very thorough with his research. I like Brian Tracy, you know, he's great. Very American, but he's superb. It's up be it's comical. He's his message is fantastic. And I've got all of his works. And I if I want to refresh your in my world, I'll go back and get get Brian Tracy out goal setting and go through it again. And the more we listen and read books, the more we take more stuff from them because we listen to them in a different way.

Agi Keramidas  49:05  
I was privileged to speak with Brian Tracy for my podcast, this it was about self discipline. So it is the book I will also second that it's very to the point and it really makes the point very, very clearly. One more hypothetical question, James, if you could go back in time and meet your 18 or 17 year old what's one piece of advice you would give him

James Martin  49:38  
don't doubt yourself. You know there was there was a time at that age I suppose Aggie where I doubted. You know I had all these dreams and aspirations was I really going to be that person? Was I am I really this? You are what you say you are. So don't doubt yourself ever. You know and from from young people All take that message you know from this is from a old 60 year old guy here, never doubt yourself, you can do anything. Just talk better to yourself and make sure that inner voice is saying the right things to you and not not holding you back.

Agi Keramidas  50:17  
James, obviously, this will exhaust the topic in a in a short podcast conversation, but is there anything that I've missed something that you were really hoping that I would ask you and we completely skipped it?

James Martin  50:35  
I think the one the one thing that I I really advocate for for I would like to say that while we have the airtime then but the what is dyslexia, what is ADHD? What what what is dyspraxia? What, what what what is all of these is just digestion is just how the brain digests information. And scientists have gone out there and label these certain movements in the brain as this or that. I think it's all just how we digest stuff and how we how we make our brain pick up on the information, the surroundings, when we learn to walk, no one teaches us to walk, we learn to walk. And we learn to walk because we keep trying. And we keep trying. And sometimes the education system doesn't allow that person to try in a different way, because they're hurrying them along to the next exam. And that's, you know that I'm very passionate about that. And I'm very passionate again, to have the opportunity with you. And I've loved your stuff that you do with other people as well. You're a great host for these podcasts because you get into the questions. You your your platform, it has made a lot of difference to a lot of people. And it has to me, I've enjoyed it immensely. So I wanted to say that. So let's do that on here. Because it's this is the truth and the truth rules.

Agi Keramidas  52:04  
Thank you very much. So I appreciate very much. Where do you want to direct people who listen to this and they want to find out more about

James Martin  52:14  
you. If you if you come to him find me on LinkedIn, dyslexic James, or you can find me on dyslexic James stock calm.

Agi Keramidas  52:23  
Thank you, James, it's been a truly fascinating conversation. I enjoyed it. And there were some elements that I also you, you also allowed me to think some things about my own learning style or digestion of information, as you said. So I very much enjoyed it. And I hope that the listener also found value in what we discussed, I want to wish you all the very best with you know, increasing the awareness about dyslexia and helping people who are dyslexic to realise that it's not a disability that they have, it's just something that they can convert it into a superpower. So all the very best with that last parting words from you.

James Martin  53:12  
Again, thank you very much. I appreciate your time today as well. And please continue. I enjoy your stuff big time. So thank you very much. I'm honoured. Thank you

Agi Keramidas  53:22  
I hope you enjoyed listening and that you got a huge amount of value from today's episode. If you have please share this episode with someone who you think will benefit from it. If you want to know more about me and what I do, visit my website AGIKERAMIDAS.COM

Agi Keramidas  53:52  
And until next time, stand out don't fit in.