#248 Why burnout is a blessing and the 5 key mindset shifts to beat burnout, with Scott Anderson.

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION

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Please note that while an effort is made to provide an accurate transcription, errors and omissions may be present. No part of this transcription can be referenced or reproduced without permission.

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Scott Anderson  0:00  
This technique takes 10 seconds. And it's very, very simple. It's very simple, but it's deceptively powerful. And the first step is to notice that you're upset. Notice that you're disturbed. You don't even have to understand why, really, but just notice that you're upset. And this is the mini vacation, I was talking about the 10 second vacation that will do a lot more good than a week in Portugal, although I just got back from Portugal and Portugal is pretty wonderful.

Agi Keramidas  0:31  
You are listening to personal development mastery podcast where you will find inspirational conversations and actionable takeaways to master yourself and improve your life. I am your host, Agi Keramidas. And my mission is to inspire you to grow, stand out and take action towards a purposeful and fulfilling life. In this podcast, I invite myself inside the minds of successful entrepreneurs, authors, spiritual teachers, thought leaders, people who share the journey, milestones and failures for you to be inspired to grow. In each episode, you will find actionable takeaways that you can implement right now. So make sure you follow the podcast to get them as soon as they are released. I remind my regular listeners here that for a short while the podcast will have one episode a week rather than two. In today's show, I am delighted to speak with Scott Anderson. Scott, you are a serial entrepreneur having launched and run nine companies and sold six of them. Your experience in business is matched by your premier training in coaching and therapy. You're an executive coach and a licenced mental health therapist. You have been featured in Forbes and entrepreneur magazines, and you dare entrepreneurs and executives to fully live their unique talent, passion and purpose. An expert in the area of burnout, you're passionate to solve one of the big entrepreneurial plagues which is burnout. Scott, welcome to the show. I'm delighted to speak with you today.

Scott Anderson  2:22  
Thank you again, it's great to be here. I appreciate the opportunity.

Agi Keramidas  2:26  
It is Scott's topic that I think it is very important and probably not discussed as much. Maybe also because of what the term burnout means to some people, maybe they have misunderstood what it is. But before we go and dive into that, and I'm very excited to listen to your expertise on that, I would like to start with a bit of your story a bit of background to understand how you ended up on this on this side of burnout as so can you take us back to the other side of it was how was your life? What were you feeling?

Scott Anderson  3:12  
Sure, yes, well, thank you. You know, I so I come from generations of entrepreneurs, It's oddly, for me, it was, for a lot of people, I think it's expected that maybe you go to university and get a good job. But in my, in my family, the expectation was that you would be an entrepreneur, that you would, you would start a business. And it was very normal, at least to me, it seemed very normal. And, and it seemed like the biggest risk was actually working for somebody else that that was the bigger risk than starting something on your own. So anyway, I was just, you know, for many generations, both sides of my family that immigrated to the United States, that was the that was the idea was run your own show and so forth. And and I think I was just sort of wired for that. But what I discovered as I got in into business, of course is that and started my own companies is that the nothing really prepares you for the ultimate responsibility that you that you have. And if on top of it, there is a bit of perfectionism as there is in me and and also, you know, a real desire for the highs of, of entrepreneurship, but also a real vulnerability to the lows of it, and which I didn't know going in. And so anyway, to kind of make a long story short, I had started and worked with a bunch of different companies, including my family. My grandfather had started a business that I ultimately I'm ran and and sold to our employees. Then I started a couple of other businesses, the biggest business that I started was an advertising agency, which I ran for 25 years. And what I found was, first of all, the advertising agency world is not for the faint of heart of all of the, of all of the risky businesses you could be in, or the stress field businesses, that's one of them where all of your customers could walk out tomorrow. You know, it's very realistic possibility that good. So, but I was really attracted to the creative side of it, I really liked it did pretty well. But on the other hand, I went through all the things all entrepreneurs go with, go through losing customers, gaining customers, losing great employees, recruiting great employees, there's a lot of highs and lows. And, you know, one of the things that I realised is that, well, I have a pretty high risk tolerance, as most entrepreneurs do. On the other hand, I have a propensity for really being going into kind of a despair cycle also, or a depression almost cycle. And I think that the ups and downs of that over time, really took their toll on me. Anyway, what happened was, like a lot of entrepreneurs, I was very excited about the advertising business. But I have a pretty short attention span, as most entrepreneurs do. And I wanted to go in and do different things, I ultimately I hired a coach for myself, I was really amazed by how effective the experience was, I decided I wanted to become a coach myself, I started a coaching and consulting practice within my advertising agency. And I was really going in one direction and my my business partners were going in a different direction. And so ultimately, we parted ways I should have left I was burned out in the advertising business. Before probably two or three or four years before we I actually sold my interest and left. And I should have left then. But there was something about the security of having this business that I had started run for 20 years at that point. But I really should have probably left at that point. And but I was sort of paralysed with kind of a fear about going out into a yet another new thing. And it started to take a toll on me that I now know is burnout. So the toll was physical exhaustion, that no matter how much sleep I got, I was still woke up exhausted, I started to feel disconnected from my business from a business that I built that had my name on the door, I started to feel really disconnected from it disconnected from my business partners from my employees, from our customers even started to feel more and more isolated and disconnected, which is also one of the hallmarks of burnout. And then ultimately began to feel more began to feel a resentment or an antagonism towards my, towards my business partners towards my

employees and customers. And, you know, I didn't know anything about this at the time of what I was going through, even though by then I had become a licenced mental health therapist, I have a graduate degree in clinical counselling. I just didn't see what was going on. Because it wasn't quite depression. It wasn't quite quite anxiety. Anyway, I sold the business finally, years later than I should have done. And by then relationships were really frayed with my business partners. And that didn't need to happen. Anyway, I sold my business started the 100% of the coaching and consulting, but really experienced all of these symptoms. Even though I had sold the business I was really still exhausted. And I guess you'd call it depressed and anxious. But it was really a little bit different than that. Anyway, I struggled for quite a while to try to find an answer. I went to my therapist, therapists colleagues for solutions, and I really couldn't find what I was looking for. Until finally kind of in desperation, I started to look at some things that I try, I started to look into the research that has been done over the last couple of decades about turnout and discovered a lot of things that that thank God really helped me.

Agi Keramidas  9:22  
This is this is great the way that you described it as well because it was part of what I started saying earlier about the term burnout that it's one of those words that not everyone knows exactly what it means. So it's often been thrown out there burnout but for many people, but not only refers to some extreme situation when you you know you have a nervous breakdown or something like that. But there are many stages before hopefully won't reach to those but there are previous ones And you mentioned, you know, the inability is not sleeping, even despite sleeping, you didn't have energy or this the lack of interest in your business in the clients or the anxiety and all these things. And dimensioning that I wanted to ask you if you think there are some others so that we can maybe the listener can recognise themselves whether they are going through a period of burnout. Before there is, you know, the obvious states that everything is a mess. Yeah, hope my question makes sense.

Scott Anderson  10:41  
Oh, it does. Absolutely. And Aki, you said something that's really true. And that is, the term burnout has been in the inner vocabulary for since the 70s. There was a psychologist in the 70s, who coined the term burnout. And he was referring, he was studying emergency room doctors and nurses, and what he meant by burnout with today, we would call it compassion, fatigue, basically, but where people become sort of numb to the experience that they're going to the high level of stress that they're in. And they and that compassion tends to be to an empathy tend to go away. And he referred to that as burnout. But since the 70s, since he invented the term, it's been generalised to mean, almost anything, a bad day at work, you know, my 92 year old mother talks about being burned out, for example. And so everybody, you know, my children talk about it, everybody talks about it. The fact is, though, the World Health Organisation has, has determined that burnout is a is a bonafide illness. The American Psychiatric Association has followed suit. And in fact, the the upcoming, the next edition of the diagnostic service manual, or DSM, will list burnout as a specific mental disorder. And it's just an it's an odd combination of both physical symptoms, because our stress, our stress systems, cortisol, adrenaline, dopamine, etc. All of our, our body chemistry, that helps us adapt to stress gets exhausted. And that accounts for the physical exhaustion. There's also mental psychological exhaustion. Thoreau said that men lead lead lives of quiet desperation. And that's when I think of that that's that really defines I think what burnout is, it's not necessarily as you say, it's not necessarily a complete mental breakdown, though I've worked with people who have had that experience. What I've noticed more often for most people, is that it's quiet desperation. It's the idea that I have to keep going, especially as an entrepreneur, I have to keep going, if I don't get up and do this everyday, nobody else will. And of course, one of the problems with a lot of entrepreneurs, and it goes to the perfectionism I mentioned earlier, is that there's a real reluctance to delegate anything, because there's this fear that no one will do it the way that I want it done. Or that it will take longer for me to explain or train them than it will to do it myself. And that kind of a of a loop leads ultimately to businesses that plateau, and lead to a lot of a lot of desperation, and ultimately an unsustainable amount of work for the entrepreneur. And they're, they reached the point. And I certainly reached it, where there's this sense of quiet desperation, that I have to get up and do this because no one else is going to. And the older that you get, and the more responsibility that you take on especially if you have children or family or you're worried about the paychecks of your employees, the more responsibility and pressure occurs. And also the the, the functionality of doing everything yourself becomes becomes less and less functional, it just stops working. And so all of these things kind of pile on top of each other. And this is what happened to me. And this is what happens to our clients. The good news is, however, that there are some evidence based practices that that really do turn around burnout, and can do and in a remarkably short amount of time, if you know what to do, basically. And a lot of the things that I discovered and ended up doing I would not have been willing to do, except I was in a tremendous amount of pain. And that opens your mind in a way that other things won't. And so, so I was willing to do some things that seemed very counterintuitive to me. A lot of it had to do with letting go of delegating, delegating my responsibility. On a very practical level we you know, and it's also of course, the only way to scale your business otherwise, you will be in this quiet desperate She forever. So the good news is there are solutions.

Agi Keramidas  15:04  
And we will certainly discuss about the show lotions. It was something that I found it very interesting how you tied the quiet desperation with the perfectionism earlier. And it makes very much sense what you said and tied it also with the delegation that you just mentioned in the end, and I believe very, very common enemies or mistakes or hurdles, I will say that's probably a better word than that the other day doesn't involve the judgement. So I don't know if you will agree with me. I think all those burnouts, the description that you gave, when you said earlier that it's going to be classified as a specific mental disorder. I wonder if these, though, are really not the causal, these are all just symptoms that are coming from something else rather than a burnout being an entity on its own. And I think with everything, really, when we identify the cause behind it, that's when we can actually deal with it and not dealing with goodness, because if they flick classified as a mental disorder, then the next thing is the treatment they kill for it, which is going to be appealed, which is a different topic altogether. And maybe, let's not go there. But would you tell me about this underlying causes of this depression, this sort of this burnout?

Scott Anderson  16:48  
Yeah, well, you know, again, in my own personal experience, and having worked now with hundreds of entrepreneurs, my what I find there's a, there's a number of common threads. One of them is that entrepreneurs are want control. They really want control. I mean, one of the reasons why entrepreneurs, you know, I was always a terrible employee, I've never Oh, there was only like, a nine month period and 30 years career where I was an employee, and I was a terrible employee. And most entrepreneurs, I know, are bad employees. And part of it is because they're there, they just, they want control, and they think they know the right way to do everything. And, and wanting that kind of control is it's a superpower in a way, it's the ability to assume responsibility for a lot of things. But on the other hand, like so many superpowers, it also has a cost ultimately. And this is one of the reasons why entrepreneurs are very good at starting things, but not so great at sustaining things, and growing things and scaling. Because there is a fearlessness and also this fierce determination to do it my way. And my wanting to do it my way often is linked to perfectionism, I just, you know, I just know that there's, there's a certain way things have to be done, or I'm not going to be happy. And so you know that that's the kind of spirit that starts things out of nothing. And that's a superpower. But my experience is with with the entrepreneurs I've worked with is that sometimes that superpower can turn to kryptonite, if you will. And, and we reach a point where you can grow a good business, but it's very difficult to grow a great business, if you maintain that mindset. There would be no business at all, if there weren't the entrepreneur who had this fearless and fierce determination. But on the other hand, for the entrepreneur, to get from a good business to great visits, is is often very difficult because it involves letting go. It involves delegation, it involves systems instead of personal touch. And some entrepreneurs can make that journey and some can, I find that when you're in a lot of pain, whether we call it burnout, or depression or, or quiet desperation, whatever you call that, that, that people are more open to doing things a different way. And that's what I found really works. I mean, there are some there are some mindset shifts that absolutely have to happen, and they're proven to work. But there's also some very practical, practical business adjustments that when you're in enough pain you're willing to do

Agi Keramidas  19:36  
I would like to focus specifically today with this mindset shifts that that you say it because, you know the practicalities of the business. It's such a it's such a vast topic, but already I think some of the things you mentioned mainly the delegation and you use the phrase letting go which I really liked If it's, you know, surrendering, that some things will happen, as they are meant to happen by other people. So I think this is even as an actionable piece of advice from this conversation for many people, I think that would be important. Yes, you know, coming back at this mindset shifts, because I think they are foundational foundationally more important because they can cascade into all other areas on our life. So I realised that you have condensed themselves into five key shifts that entrepreneurs used to, I'm going to say, to beat burnout, I'm not sure if beat is the right word I'm using or maybe another word would be more appropriate. But I would like you to guide us to this shift, shall we say? And then if we have some time, we can go deeper on one of them?

Scott Anderson  21:04  
Sure. Well, you know, the most the basically three things that have to happen for in my own experience with my own burnout and with with with the folks in our system, is that one of the most important is to is to address stress in a different way than we're used to. Most entrepreneurs, if they feel stressed or anxious, their solution to everything is to work harder, and worry more. You know, and that works. Bizarrely, I mean, it does work, it will the answer to everything. And this comes I think, in part from with me from being, you know, third or fourth or fifth generation entrepreneur, the answer to everything is work harder and worry more, and be a perfectionist. That's it. And it doesn't matter what the problem is. That's the,

Agi Keramidas  21:57  
it sounds scary when you say it like this. I can relate to it. I mean, it, it resonates at a deeper level. So thank you.

Scott Anderson  22:06  
So it's very soothing. You know, I mean, it suits our anxiety as entrepreneurs to think, look, no matter what happens, I can always work harder, you know, I can work I'll outwork everybody else. I've told myself that I've told others that no one will work harder than I will. And that's, and I say that to myself, mainly as kind of whistling in the dark and, and reassuring myself, it's a way to soothe the anxiety and stress that most entrepreneurs have. And it's true to a point, you know, I would work harder than anybody, I've worked harder than anybody ought to really. And also, I do worry more and care more and more of a perfectionist. And all of that works until it stops working. And that's the problem. And when it stops working. The problem then is most entrepreneurs don't have a plan B. If the answer isn't working harder and worrying more and caring more and being a perfectionist, then I don't have another way of going, I don't know what else there is to do. And this is why I say In fact, I'm writing an article called The blessings of burnout. And what I mean by that is that there are a lot of things, a lot of ideas that I would never have even considered, like letting go like surrender, etc. Except that I had to. I had, I tried my work harder, worried more technique, to the point where it Damn near killed, you know. And so anyway, the first thing to discover is there's another way that you can manage stress. And there's also another way that you can succeed in business, that actually will work better, both in terms of the stress and the exhaustion, and the depression and anxiety, but also will work better financially. But it takes being in a lot of pain. For most of us very stubborn entrepreneurs, you have to be in a lot of pain before you're willing to even consider that. But that's number one. I mean, most of us as entrepreneurs, figure will sleep tell we're will sleep when we're dead. You know, this is the kind of, and it's unfortunately, you know, sleep is very, very important just to pick one thing. Sleep good. One of the first things we work on is helping people get their sleep back. It's very, very important. And it's only desperate people desperate entrepreneurs who are willing to look at it. The other thing that we look at is how to relieve stress. In America, at least the philosophy is you work 50 weeks, and you have two weeks of vacation. And that that ought to be enough to get over stress, burnout, whatever. But what you know what, what I found and most of my students have found is that actually vacation causes more stress. You have to work twice as hard to get ready to go to vacation. And when you get back you have to work twice as hard to catch up. And that whatever good it may have done is erased almost immediately. So So, you know, so the idea is, well, I'll catch up on my sleep this weekend, or I'll relax this weekend. That's simply not how the human mind and body work. So part of our first shift, the most important part of it, is to learn that we have to be releasing stress, and letting go. And essentially taking many vacations throughout the day. That's how the mind and body works. The idea that we can, we can save up all this worry and exhaustion and get rid of it in a week's vacation simply isn't true. So one of the main things we teach is how to relax how to relieve stress, proven techniques that really work and only take 10 seconds to do. But our best practice throughout the day, it's sort of like the Olympic athlete. They know that they have to train hard, but they also know that almost as important as training is recovery. And then if they don't let their muscles recover, they will tear and there'll be injury. And it's very similar recovery. In fact, that's the first principle in our shifts, recovery is really the key to undoing the harm that exhaustion and stress or burnout have done. And to begin to find a practical way to let go of the stress, and to really manage it a different way. So that's, that's the first most important shift for sure.

Agi Keramidas  26:27  
It's certainly one of the most important skills, I think anyone can have life, because with stress that you you mentioned it as stress. I will also add to that, even though it is included, but I will also make it clarify that clarification that this is also our emotional state, because it goes down to how we manage how we're able to manage that physical sensation in our body that can debilitate us or can push us to do something that we wouldn't normally do in order to avoid it or suppress it. So,

Scott Anderson  27:09  
exactly. And that's exactly right. The things that most people do and most entrepreneurs do, to manage stress is that they either try to make it go away, which is just what our minds do they want it to, they want it to go away, or they want and or suppress it, or they want to avoid it. And both of those techniques may work briefly a little bit in the short term. But ultimately, the research is very clear that either trying to suppress or avoid stress makes it come back even stronger and more frequently. So but that's the thing that we do. And in fact, all of the things that we naturally do as entrepreneurs to deal with stress and burnout actually make it worse. So that's the first thing we need to do is to stop doing things that make it worse. You know, a lot of people use unfortunately, and especially during COVID People use alcohol, drugs. There's a long list of things that people use to try to either to somehow manage stress. But unfortunately, all of the things that we do, and our minds naturally are problem solvers. So our minds want to suppress or make the stress go away, or to avoid both techniques will make it worse. And but that's what we naturally do.

Agi Keramidas  28:28  
Thank you. And do you want to share with us one more of this? Sure shifts those cases? Because this is this is fascinating. I would like to know one more than you think it's absolutely, maybe complimentary to the one yes. And

Scott Anderson  28:45  
another one that's really important is entrepreneurs in particular are whether we're sort of aware of it or not, are really looking at outside, looking outside ourselves for affirmation and reassurance. And so we look for if we have a good month, for example, in our businesses, then we feel good temporarily. If we have a big sale, let's say, or a great conversation with a customer, we're elated briefly. But the problem, you know, with with a lot of entrepreneurs is that we really measure ourselves almost exclusively by outward, and kind of superficial metrics. And the problem is that those things go up and down a lot for entrepreneurs. We have good days and we have bad days, we have happy customers and unhappy ones, we have happy employees and unhappy ones, and so forth. So one of the things that we really stress is to we take our clients through a process where they they begin to re identify or maybe identify for the first time what what they really want, what they really love and what makes life life to them. We call this a values exercise, but we don't mean it in terms of what's right and wrong in any moralistic sense, but more in terms of what's right and wrong for you personally, what brings you joy? And, and essentially, try to turn the outward focus, trying to find satisfaction or peace outside ourselves, but to try to find it in sight ourselves. And so instead of the RGPS, being focused on sales, or happy customers or whatever, not that those things aren't important, but we focus instead on what are our personal values, what are the things that we need to be doing need to be engaged in, for us to feel joy ourselves. And this is a this is kind of disorienting for entrepreneurs who have put so much emphasis on getting things to work on the outside. But it's a it's a, an essential shift. And actually, and a lot of entrepreneurs are afraid, well, if I do that, that my business will fall apart, I can't be successful, we get very superstitious about our approach our approach, you know, I have to throw salt over my shoulder, my business won't work. It's about that silly. But again, if you get into enough pain, you begin to realise I've got to try something else. And what we have found is that when clients shift their focus from how things are going outside, to whether or not they're living according to their own values, everything improves, including the outside. So that's a very big shift. So instead of letting our disturbing thoughts and emotions bully us a fear of going broke, that most entrepreneurs have, for example, instead of letting that bully you all day long, we instead look at what do I want to be doing? You know, you asked me before the interview, what is your intent? You spend a lot of time on intent. What do you intend to do here? Who do you want to be? What do you want to? What kind of value do you want to live through today? And that changes everything. And it's a very subtle shift. But it's a very dramatic outcome. But it's one of the most important things that we work with our clients on.

Agi Keramidas  32:12  
It's, that's fascinating, thank you for your explanations, because and it made me think that somehow those two shifts that you mentioned, are related in the sense that both of them involve taking your focus from something that is more out outers to something that is more internal, which is it isn't it very fascinating, as you know, an approach of going back to what's happening, how I'm feeling and the work with the values that you said, I believe it is, you know, living congruently with your values, recognising your values, and living in congruence with them is really what can make or lead your life to a direction that is full of happiness and fulfilment. That's, that's how I look at it. Anyway, in any simplified way. So

Scott Anderson  33:18  
yes, but sometimes people, especially entrepreneurs think, well, if I do that, then I can't be successful, or I can't maintain my business. But the opposite is true. Oddly, the, you know, the, it's one of those things where it's the old expression, the Good is the enemy of the best. And that's really true entrepreneurs get into this sort of superstitious relationship with how their business works. And the good becomes the enemy of the best. And it's only when you're in a lot of pain and this quiet desperation that people are willing to consider another way. But what I tell people, and it's been true for me is that there is a whole new level of happiness and success if that's what you want, much greater than you've ever experienced, before burnout, if you're willing to make some relatively minor course corrections, they may feel kind of radical, but they're really pretty subtle. And it can change everything dramatically and do so pretty quickly.

Agi Keramidas  34:18  
That's fantastic. Scott, out of this soul conversation we had if you were now to give to the listeners, something actionable, something that he or she can implement straight away. What would you say?

Scott Anderson  34:36  
Well, boy, the thing that the one thing that really helped me a lot and it's actually the first thing that we give our new clients is a is a technique for noticing that when you're feeling overwhelmed, stressed, anxious, exhausted, even the most important thing that we found and it's very subtle Small technique and only takes 10 seconds to do most of our clients. When I say, when I mentioned the word meditation, they freak out, they, they can't do that, you know, I understand this technique takes 10 seconds. And it's very, very simple. And what it really involves is, it's it's very simple, but it's deceptively powerful. And the first step is to notice that you're upset. Notice that you're disturbed, you don't even have to understand why, really, but just notice that you're upset. And this is the mini vacation, I was talking about the 10 second vacation, that will do a lot more good than a week in Portugal, although I just got back from Portugal, which was pretty wonderful. But, but really, you could do more in 10 seconds than you could, with all the preparation to go on a trip and come back in 10 seconds, you can do the same good. So basically, the main thing is number one, notice that you're disturbed, you don't have to understand why. Just notice, scan your body and notice that you're upset, you're stressed, you're worried or depressed or anxious. Whatever it is, that's number one. Number two, is to simply inhale, and we suggest inhale through your nose. And as you do this, just notice the stress that you're feeling. And then exhale through your mouth and visualise the stress and the disturbance, whatever it is, imagine that leaving your body. Imagine your heart opening and the stress leaving. This is a technique that I actually first discovered in Michael singers book, The Untethered Soul. We call this the r&r technique, but it's just incredibly powerful. And to begin with, this is all I had, when I was trying to create my own trying to somehow hobbled together my own system. To begin with, that's all that I had. And that one technique by itself, if practice in a diligent way, even if you only remember to do it a couple of times a day, I found it super powerful. And, and there's something magical about noticing, instead of trying to suppress or get rid of the bad feeling that you hear, or trying to avoid it in some way, there's something about doing the counterintuitive thing of noticing what's happening, of actually seeing it. And that necessarily, you don't have to understand all the psychology or the thinking. But just notice that in your body, you feel tension. Notice in your body that your heart rate is higher, your breathing is higher, it doesn't matter, you don't have to figure it out, the main thing is just to notice it, there's something very powerful in noticing it. And then to consciously allow this tension that wants to leave anyway, just allow it to go. This whole process takes 10 seconds, I'm making it sound like it's so complicated. This takes 10 seconds, very simple. So you know, that's what I would advise people to try at least. And there's a lot more you can do. But that one technique is very powerful.

Agi Keramidas  37:52  
It's immensely immensely valuable. So thank you, Andy, this, you said, it's very powerful. I think I would even dare to use the word magical if you are noticing the fact that you are upset or stressed or ready to break breaks the pattern and the train of thought of whatever was happening up to that moment. So those 10 seconds. And now I appreciate very much what you said about the mini vacation because it's a mini vacation from the rampant internal dialogue that is taking you to that stress in that overwhelm show. It breaks up for a little while and you reconnect with you know that the inner power if you want or your higher self or however you want to call it. Yes, exactly.

Scott Anderson  38:45  
Absolutely. That's just the rampant internal dialogue. Shut that so well. That's exactly it. And if we can just, you know, the last thing we want to do is to sort of notice it, because it's sort of scary. But once we notice that it starts to quiet down, and you can, you know, I challenge anyone who's listening, just to try it. But that little tiny technique, even if you can't meditate, you don't have to meditate. But if you just try this technique a couple times a day, it's just incredibly powerful.

Agi Keramidas  39:17  
Thank you, Scott, where would you like to direct the listeners that have enjoyed this conversation and would like to know more about who you are and what you do.

Scott Anderson  39:28  
Oh, thank you so much. Well, the best thing to do is you mentioned the five shifts, we've got a masterclass on the five shifts to break through burnout. And so if your listeners will go to I guess it's H T P, HTTP S, the S is essential, but it's burnout. breakthrough.com is the most important thing. Yeah, burnout breakthrough.com. And there is a masterclass on the five shifts that I mentioned I go into a lot more detail that will explain you know how You can, you can really this is I guess what I would love to leave any any of your entrepreneurial listeners who are going through this is that you can really it's, it's really possible to get through this and remarkably quickly. In our system, we see people getting through this in 90 days, and sometimes significantly less, getting through a lifetime a lifetime's worth of burnout and anxiety and overwhelm, and exhaustion. So there is a lot of hope. I'd really love to leave people with that idea.

Agi Keramidas  40:34  
That's brilliant. Thank you. And, Scott, I will ask you also some quickfire questions just to wrap things up. First one is What does personal development mean to you?

Scott Anderson  40:48  
It means service, it means to be of service. The whole point, you know, I think, is to be of service. And, and I, the only reason I think that's true, is that when I when I feel as though I'm serving, I feel alive, I feel joy. For me, that's the answer. And that's the only reason to develop personally, is to serve others.

Agi Keramidas  41:16  
Thank you. That's beautiful. And hypothetical question. If you could go back in time and meet your 18 year old self, what's one piece of advice you would give him?

Scott Anderson  41:27  
Oh, my God, so many things. I you know, my 18 year old self was insane. Having a lot of fun, but totally insane. You know, the main thing I would say is just stop worrying. Oh, my God, you know, I might encourage my 18 year old self as I do my 18 year old children to practice this, this 10 Second vacation tip. I actually was starting to meditate when I was when I was 18. Because the Beatles were doing it. Right. And so unfortunately, it didn't really stick. I'm not sure my 80 year old self 18 year old self is kind of by definition insane. That's a hard one. But I'd say stop worrying. Don't worry. Stop it.

Agi Keramidas  42:18  
Yes, I think it is common to be it's natural to have the scans of Yes, Shane, as you said, and Scott, what's one book that you would recommend to the listener based on the topic today, you mentioned already the Untethered Soul by Michael singer. So if you want to maybe mentioned if you want to leave it to that we can, but if you have something else that comes to mind?

Scott Anderson  42:42  
Well, I'd really recommend, you know, Michael singer is just a brilliant guy. And, and also, interestingly, an entrepreneur. And that's one of the reasons I first got interested in him is that he built a billion dollar medical records company from nothing. And his intention was not really to build anything, it just, he just he wrote a another great book called the surrender experiment, where he talks about basically just saying yes to life, of not of not fighting, not resisting life. And, and the end result was a and he would say, this is a secondary and minor result. But he did build a billion dollar medical record system, the original, the first electronic web based medical records company, the more important success he would say, is being able to, to relax and release the stress in himself. And, you know, really to, to find that, that universal truth and to find is higher power, God, whatever. So both of those books, the Untethered Soul, and also the surrender experiment, the surrender experiment is sort of his practical application of his philosophy in his life, which he and he really did. I mean, he just and continues to do. It's not just a theory he practices in a very pragmatic way.

Agi Keramidas  44:15  
Scott, I want to thank you very much for this conversation we had today it was, I believe, incredibly valuable. And I hope that the listener got as many things as I got from this conversation. So thank you very much for sharing all your wisdom with with us today. And I want to wish you the very best with your mission in what you're, what you're doing. last parting words from you.

Scott Anderson  44:46  
Just just really glad to be on your podcast. I get to meet you because I've really enjoyed listening to you as well. And I've heard a lot of wise things as well. So thank you for doing this podcast. You're doing really, really important work. And I've listened to a number of your episodes and it's it's very important. I think what you're doing. We talked about this before the interview, but to bring entrepreneurs inspiration and hope is no, it's really my life's work and I can see that it's yours too. So well done keep it up

Agi Keramidas  45:27  
I hope you enjoyed listening and that you got a huge amount of value from today's episode. If you have, please share this episode with someone who you think will benefit from it. If you want to know more about me and what I do, visit my website AGIKERAMIDAS.COM

And until next time, stand out don't fit in!