#278 How to create recurring income inside & out of your business and become financially independent, and the seven pillars of wealth, with Kevin Whelan.

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION

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Please note that while an effort is made to provide an accurate transcription, errors and omissions may be present. No part of this transcription can be referenced or reproduced without permission.

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Kevin Whelan  0:00  
If I can own the asset, and the asset gives me income, and that income doesn't depend on me being there, then you can create a level of independence, independent from the state of political fast that we're having right now, independent from what's happening with diseases or pandemics independent of what's happening with the economy, what's happening to inflation. So the more you can understand, the more then you can apply the principles and we'll definitely get into things of application as opposed to theoretical. So this is economics that can be applied. So these are practical things and if you can get it that the only seven then wealth building is scientific.

Agi Keramidas  0:52  
You are listening to personal development mastery podcast, providing those with the desire to grow with a simple, consistent actions needed to master personal development and create the life they yearn for. I'm your host Agi Keramidas. A few years ago, I found myself unfulfilled and unmotivated like I had lost my sense of purpose and my life was merely passing by. Since then, I've been on a continuous journey of personal development that has transformed every aspect of my life. Now, my mission is to inspire you to grow, stand out and take action towards a purposeful and fulfilling life. In this podcast, I invite myself inside the minds of remarkable entrepreneurs, authors, thought leaders, spiritual teachers, people who share the journey milestones and learnings for you to be inspired to grow. In this episode, you will find practical action points that you can implement right now. So make sure you follow the podcast to get them as soon as they are released. 

Agi Keramidas  1:58  
Do you want to become financially independent? Do you want to create recurring income? Whether you are a business owner or an employee? Do you want to know which are the seven asset classes considered as the Pillars of Wealth? If you answered yes to any of these, then today's episode is for you. Let's dive right in. In today's show, I'm delighted to speak with Kevin Whelan. Kevin, you are an economist, author, the founder of wealth builders and one of the UK's leading authorities on small self administered scheme pensions. You are an articulate speaker on the subject of financial independence. And you have a credible track record in helping both business owners create streams of recurring income and also assisting employees to jump off the corporate treadmill. You're also very passionate about improving financial literacy for our children. Kevin, welcome to the show. i It's such a pleasure to speak with you today.

Kevin Whelan  3:06  
I guess it's been a real pleasure to build up to this. And I'm very much looking forward to exchanging some some well defined well considered and well thought out words that can be actionable. And I'm hoping that some of the ideas we share can be a catalyst for one or two people to take some action to become financially independent, as opposed to the opposite, which is dependency on so many things that if we want to get into that we can do that.

Agi Keramidas  3:38  
We certainly have a lot to talk about. And I liked what you said about how we were building up to this because it took us a little while to actually have this conversation today. But I'm very grateful that we are here. We're going to discuss some of those things that you said earlier and hopefully become the catalyst for someone to take action towards their financial independence. I would like to start before we go there with a little brief introduction of journey from you specifically, what I would like to ask you to share with us a key defining moment in your journey perhaps regarding finances, which is the most relevance with the conversation.

Kevin Whelan  4:25  
They are unquestionably the the most key defining moment of my entire life. When it comes to the subject of wealth happened when my father died suddenly at the age of 46. He was a oil rig worker in Aberdeen had a good business. We were doing well as a family. And unfortunately he died. Now tragedies, I'm sure are felt by many people. But from my perspective as a young economist I was around 25, the time when when he died. And I was just planning to get married, and sort of made a mental decision based on mathematical analysis, which was, if I go when he goes, or if I go when he when I don't think I can save enough money after tax to pay for the life and the family that you know, myself and my wife were planning to have. And so I made the sort of change. It took a while, but I felt the catalyst inside me. Hence that word again. Something which stimulates someone to change a pattern, of course, or behaviour, and hopefully, for the good. And that catalyst for me was, I need to change my paradigm, I need to look at things in a different way. And the way that I decided to look at things the lens that I decided to frame everything through was not to trade time for money, and to be completely focused on the ownership of assets or things that I could either own and control, that would throw off income, which are now called recurring income, income, which repeats and repeats, and repeats, and that the ownership of that income would not be dependent on me. And it could pass on to my family, or any other causes that we would want. And over the course of the years, then since that date, my my skill, my ability to hone my thinking in this regard. And then to create materials, courses, number of books on the subject, and build many, many relations, hundreds and hundreds of relationships now, where I think I've got almost like a CAT scan brain. So I suppose you know, you go, you go to the hospital and you you might need a CAT scan to get a really good cross section of what's going on inside your body. And my brain allows me to be a CAT scan for somebody's finances. So within a very few minutes, within a very short period of time, I can diagnose the financial health of pretty much anyone. And I've put that skill to work and now incorporated that skill into, as I said, books, courses, and engage with a whole team now who replicate and teach the IP, the intellectual property that I've created over the years. And now we have a very successful business called wealth builders, which does what it says on the tin, it's all about helping people to become completely financially independent, not just for money's sake, but for the freedom that financial independence can bring from, where you want to work, who you want to work with, do you want to work at all. You can live out your own passions and do things, if you want to do them, when you want to do them with who you want to do them. The whole principle is about choice. And I think over the years, I've been able to develop those choices for myself. And now I spent as much time post becoming financially independent, teaching others how to do the same. And I'm really passionate about I get a real pleasure from doing it and helping people make distinctions of their own. Even if it's just one distinction that makes a difference to their family. Because I think in the end, it all came from a death, which caused me to think about a legacy. And that legacy remains the most important thing to me. I've got three grown up children now. And you know, I spend a lot of time with them. But I spend a lot of time now trying to help other parents, with children of all ages from eight to 28. How to Become a fantastic money role model for their kids and not just about the the teaching and the sharing of education. Because there's enough education in school but not in this subject. I don't know about you, arguably, I missed that class. Wasn't there you know, even even at university with the economics degree, it wasn't their finance was was never there. So I think it's now my responsibility. And I take it seriously to try and build materials to help parents do a better job. They want to there's an intention. But in order to be a great teacher, you've got to know more. So it's not about teaching the kids so much. It's about really empowering parents. So thanks for the question. And I hope I've given a broad enough answer to to you to go off in a different direction and see where you want to take it next you have

Agi Keramidas  9:54  
and you actually cover the questions that I was about to ask about your your motif. Ovation behind, you know, helping others achieve financial independence. There was one other thing that I wanted to ask you before we move on to more practical stuff. But I think it is essential you talked about when you change your own paradigm, as you said, specialists, specifically, it was not to trade your time for money and shift that paradigm. Do you think that this mindset shift, this changing of the paradigm is a fundamental for others that wants to

Agi Keramidas  10:41  
pursue or achieve financial independence?

Kevin Whelan  10:44  
We are. So I believe it's fundamental, I believe it's a fundamental principle. So one of the important distinctions I would make is, I don't hold myself out to be a guru with ideas that you can apply in somehow there'll be a magic shortcut or a magic pill. Now, what I prefer to do is say, here's a way of looking at things. Here's a principle that should be universal, whether you're listening to this in United Kingdom, the United States, wherever you might be listening, you can apply a principle and that principle will work. And that's what I like to share. So the principle then, of trading time for money, is understanding where income flows. So for the most part, we're taught, or we copy, we have an imprint that says, we should get good jobs, we should earn money. And from that money we earn, we should save money and plan for retirement, that's sort of the paradigm, my argument is not that paradigm, it's to say, Well, you could do that. But instead, you could, you could understand that you could own and control assets, things that you can own, that will put money into your bank account, while you sleep, you can enjoy fully doing it and building it. And you can share that knowledge with the next generation and dispense the wisdom to help them grow and accumulate that for generations yet to come. And it's a fundamentally different way of looking at things than the scarcity mindset of you work and you pay tax, and then somehow you've you've just got a body of money leftover, which if we get into that dialogue, I think there's a fundamental flaw in the way there's been a transition for how people generate income, when they leave it late, you know, I think you can become financially independent, in five years, five years of making good decisions, as opposed to 30 to 35 years of making mediocre ones. And I think that's the key message that I'd like to get across. And I'd love to dive into what those assets are. Because over the years, my own intellectual property on this, and I'm always up for the challenge, I give anybody else coming up with another, but I've determined there are seven, and only seven assets that you can own to build wealth. Now, there's a whole myriad of opportunities underneath each of those seven. But once you can master the thought of, okay, if I can own the asset, and the asset gives me income, and that income doesn't depend on me being there, then you can create a level of independence, independent from the state of political fast that we're having right now, independent from what's happening with diseases or pandemics independent of what's happening with the economy, what's happening to inflation. So the more you can understand, the more then you can apply the principles. And we'll definitely get into things of applications as opposed to theoretical. So this is economics, that can be applied, not economics, that can just be understood, as a mathematician or an economist might take from a university degree. So these are practical things. And if you can get it that there are only seven, then wealth building is scientific. Because you can find and build that unique combination of your own seven doesn't have to be all seven. But if you know them all, then you can decide which combination works for you.

Agi Keramidas  14:25  
That's great. And we will talk about this, the seven classes of assets. Before we go and I very much like that you said that we won't stay on the theoretical level, but instead offered some practical elements in the conversation as well. And actually, I would like to go into these applications. Really. As a preface, before we go there, I would say something that actually I read In one of your websites, you will say that there is a financial storm ahead. And we know that interest rates are rising, we're recording this conversation end of 2022. Energy costs have doubled, inflation is spiralling and during this period, we're going to discuss the topic of financial independence, which is on the maybe the opposite side of it, and both for business owners and for ambitious employees. Before we start with this nitty gritty, do you want to or want to share any disclaimer for the conversation or shall we just dive straight in,

Kevin Whelan  15:46  
I don't normally get worried by disclaimers, because I'm just giving principles that I believe somebody could absorb, there's going to be no attempt to give any advice, there's no attempt to give any guidance. That's, I think it's fair to say that anybody can listen to what they want to listen to. And then before they make any fundamental decisions around their money and their wealth, they should consult with someone that they believe is got the necessary qualification so to do and I'm not attempting to do that in our conversation today.

Agi Keramidas  16:19  
Thank you very much for sharing that. I would like to start then, by addressing

Agi Keramidas  16:28  
business owners, people who already are in a, in a business, their business, but they don't necessarily have created this recurring income, as you see here, the passive income as it's called. So I would like to address those people first. And if you could share with us some of the ways a business owner can take steps towards the financial independence. And now I will ask more for more practical things rather than the mindset things that we briefly discussed earlier on.

Kevin Whelan  17:11  
Okay, I will make one distinction just because you raise that yourself recurring income and passive income and not so because I don't believe any income is fundamentally passive. Because there's an element of management that's needed in every regard, of course, so I believe if we're stewards of our wealth stewards of our money, there needs to be stewardship. And that's not passive, that's active. Now, that being said, business owners are a wonderful category. And I love dealing with business owners, but they, they shows and share so many frustrations. Because often, when someone is in business, there's a sometimes a misunderstanding that the business itself is an asset. But an asset is something that works without you, and it puts money in your bank account while you're asleep. And for the most part, people in business are not doing that. They're simply performing a function, trading time for money or service for money or product for money, and that the revenue does not recur. So there are a number of elements in there. So for a start, I touch on those distinctions. So from my perspective, if I'm talking to a business owner, usually I'm saying look, you can create recurring income inside of your business, recurring income outside of your business, or you can do both. Now, to create it inside the business, I'll just take a moment on that. And I believe there are three powerful ingredients that work together in order to make that happen. Firstly, and I call it my my three pin plug has, it puts power into any business, the first one is to operate very clearly, and define the value add you bring in a niche. In other words, to become outstanding, adding value to a group of people in a niche, or or you know, a group of business owners but in the end, it's always people who receive value. Second, is to understand that the income from the service or the product that you deliver can become more recurring, then it can become linear. So you can auto ship something you can auto provide something new to what extent do you have an automatic income coming from your business for most people zero. But you can look at that because there are a number of different ways that you can harness thoughts to generate recurring income in a business. And the third is to imagine the business needs to work without you. Not necessarily at the beginning. But certainly as you set it up, then at some point that you are no longer required. You don't need to show up for the money to continue to show up, which therefore means you've got a business that you can keep, you could pass on, you could sell to an acquirer, or you could sell to management or employees, you've got so many more choices of disposal of a business. And in the end, as Shakespeare will say, the All the world's a stage and the men and women are merely players, and we all have our entrances and our exits, every business has an exit, my father unfortunate exit, he died without putting things in place. And we can't control those things. But you can stage manage, exit left with a business, if you can understand how you're orchestrating that. Now, if that's not your business, and you want a lifestyle business, that depends on you, and you like that. Nothing wrong with that. Absolutely nothing wrong with having a wonderful, boss balanced business that allows you to spend time with your family and do what you want to do. And I love that too. But then you have to create recurring income outside of the business. Because if it always depends on you, and you acknowledge that, then building the wealth, and the seven pillars, as I mentioned, is the next skill. So understanding, are you building an inside or outside now it's easier to build outside, because you can apply the straightforward principles, working inside the business much harder, because many people have, I suppose, created a process in their business, which is very difficult to change. Whereas it's very easy to say, Well, look, I'm making profit, I could take profit from the business. And I could use that profit in a whole raft of different ways that will lead me to be growing my wealth, so that at some point, whether I keep the business, sell the business in whatever manner, I wish, I built up and flexed, the decision making muscles, about being an investor in things in assets. And that if I get a big check, I know what to do with the money. And if I never get a big check, or financially independent anyway, so so that's why I try and teach it that way to to allow people to become financially independent, either with or without their business. And the sad fact is, I did a speech on this recently to 2000. Business owners and I talked about this and one of the statistics that seems to grab their attention is the the data for selling businesses is not well kept. However, there is one piece of data which is, which is the capital gains tax relief that's available, what used to be called entrepreneurs relief is now called business asset disposal relief. But anyway, same thing. What it means is when you sell a business, and you gain a capital gain, instead of paying corporation tax or cap gains tax in the normal way, you only pay tax at 10%. Now, those records of those claims are known. And of 5 million business owners in the UK, only 5000 business owners a year sell for more than a million pounds. In other words, life changing money only happens in naught point 1% of the business community. So the odds are not stacked in favour of businesses selling their business for a massive sum of money. Which is why I think it's more important to be building wealth as you go. Not hoping that one day someday, your business will sell. Because so many businesses don't sell. Because the owner gets old, the owner gets ill, the owner gets divorced, a whole series of different things can can intervene with the plans for a business owner to sell. And I believe it's better to be building wealth as you grow the business and as you keep the business so that you can do it. Either way. Either way, you're going to be financially free. Whether you keep the business or whether you don't hope that helps.

Agi Keramidas  24:03  
I want to take a short break from this episode and quickly let you know about something I'm really excited about. For me, having a podcast made a tremendous difference in my life's journey. And I know the kind of impact it can have on one's personal development. And that is why I'm so passionate about helping coaches who are ready to amplify their message and reach a global audience by creating launching and growing a top quality podcasts even if they aren't tech savvy and are limited on time. Maybe you have thought about having your own podcast but you don't want to go through the time consuming learning process of how to create launched it, how to record the ad to host and so on. If you said yes, I have a solution for you something that takes away all the complexity and allows you only to concentrate on creating quality content. Go to my website I Jeremy dust.com, to find out more and to get your free copy of my guide about creating and launching your podcast. Alright, let's jump back to the episode.

Agi Keramidas  25:14  
Before we discuss those seven pillars that you talked about, I would also like to ask a similar question that did about business owners. But let's address also the employees that would like, you know, to step out of this treadmill and do their own thing or their own business. You talk about making more on the side. But how much of what you said about recurring income in inside and outside applies to the employees, obviously, because they obviously have, to some extent they limit to what they can earn, by exchanging their time for money as employees.

Kevin Whelan  26:00  
Yeah. Well, the principle of employee ship is trading time for money, largely, there are other types of pay structure, but largely that, and therefore, you're always dependent on that, that you can't pass on the job to the next generation. There isn't a legacy there. So it's really a mindset issue, starting there, with understanding that if you're in a job, nothing wrong with being a job holder, you hold a job, you don't own the job, but you hold it temporarily. And the thing to understand is, when you're trading time for money, there's always arbitrage happening. What I mean by that is, if you if you know, for example, you've got savings and you know, there's a institution like a building site, you're a bank, they're making money on, they give you a savings rate, but they lend money out at different rates. So there's always a profit margin. So when you tune to that, you can look out for that, and say, Okay, well, I'm selling my services to my employees, for x pounds per hour. And the easy way to do that is divide your salary by two. So if your salary is 50,000, you're on 25 pounds an hour. If your salary is 100,000, you're on 50 pounds an hour. If your salary is a million, you're on 500 pounds. Now, it's very easy formula to work out. Now, once you've worked out that you're trading time for money at that equivalent rate per hour, then for the business to be profitable, it must be selling your services at higher than that. So it's then just understanding Well, what is the value that I'm bringing to make that more effective for the business that I'm working for? And is there a way that you could become an intrapreneur. So instead of checking out of the rat race, getting off the treadmill, and, and there's a risk attached to that, but there's, there's a way to break the fall, by doing things gradually. However, if you can approach the employer with a view to say, well, I know where the value is, you're seeking to create as a firm, and here's a way I can provide even more value, because you're watching it and paying attention to it, then you can negotiate with your employer. Instead of going on strike, you can negotiate in terms of where the value is being created. And I think that's a paradigm shift that many employees may not yet have, which is, in the end, they're a team player for the moment. And if you can be a team player and perform at your highest level, until another team shows up that you can trade your time for money for a higher level, but you can invest the proceeds. So in the same way as a business owner can build their wealth as they grow their business, an employee can build their wealth as to grow their income. And many people are skilled at growing income, but they're less skilled at growing that independent flow of money from assets after the income has been paid, usually, because well, as you mentioned, credit crunches, pandemics, spiralling inflation, interest rates, stock market volatility, there's a whole array of reasons that can can cloud people's judgement. But again, once you come back to the principles as well, one of the ways I can build wealth, what are the seven individual assets that I can, then you can always do something to build one. And the mantra that we use within wealth builders and the people who engage with us, to be confidentially independent, is to never let 30 Days go by without doing something positive towards building your wealth and that could be learning something. It could be reading something, it could be just experiencing something. This anything can be done in a month period, and we try and do it that way because most employees think of themselves in a monthly sigh. got, you know, they get paid a salary, and that salary normally arrives monthly. So that's the way we approach it is to say, you can always do something, let's find the one thing that you can do, that will make a difference. And that's all about making those distinctions that apply to their circumstances, their family situation, the time they had available. And of course, we've had, with a pandemic, a complete change in the way people work. Historically, it was all about going to an office. Now, it's increasingly about going to and working from home. And that combination for many has given them a newfound freedom. So instead of the unpaid commute, they can take that time, and apply some of the lessons that we would share and say what put this to work. And to I love things like podcasts are good, because they, they they allow people to leverage their time, whether they're commuting, whether they're exercising, walking the dog, whatever they want to do. So it's a great inspiration to be able to, to do that rather than just simply be entertained.

Agi Keramidas  31:13  
Or 100%. agree with you. And I will digress for a moment, because I have often people asking me, why is a podcast better than a YouTube channel? And I think you gave in your last sentence, very good reasons what the big advantage of them is soft anyway, I'm not going to stay there. I just wanted to make a comment, because I've had this conversation often with with people. Let me ask you then about these seven pillars, these assets that can create an independent flow of money for you. And by the way, I will also say now that I remember, thank you for your comment earlier about them passive, I never liked that phrase passive, but it is used, I think sometimes in a misleading way to imply that it is, as you said, so I liked very much your explanation about being in in stewardship of money. So thank you for that. So let's, let's discuss, briefly those seven pillars, those assets and time and whatever conversation Texas we could go a bit deeper in maybe one of them. But let's give a brief overview,

Kevin Whelan  32:32  
then let's let's do that. So 95% of the population in the UK in the US will never become financially independent. And that's a staggering statistic. And one of the main reasons is the simplicity of the approach that is taken. And so if you can imagine, and perhaps, because this isn't a YouTube channel, so you can't see the seven pillars and how they're represented. But if you just imagine a square or a circle on the right hand side, what most people do, and on the left hand side, the ways that you can massively turbocharge your wealth building activities. So for the most part, like three legs of a spider, most people have three things in their life. They have a home that they live in, they have some form of pension or retirement planning. And they have some form of money in cash, or investments. And those would be the first three pillars. So pillar number one, I call it home capacity, there's a capacity in everyone's home to generate income, whether we choose to exercise or not, is, it's just a matter of our own personal decision about how we do that. But if, for the most part, people live in houses, they don't generate an income from them. But increasingly, though that's changing, we're seeing a change towards Airbnb, we were seeing people with rental rooms schemes with seven and a half 1000 a year you can earn tax free. We've seen that with refugees, we've seen people tapping into building extensions on their home or building capacity around the space, they have to turn that into a source of money. And increasingly now, we're seeing that so you can turn your home into a source of revenue, and ultimately people do anyway. Because if you get the maths wrong, and you determine that your financial independence is just not coming and you realise it too late. What most people do, they downsize. So they do it then, and I'm just suggesting that why don't you imagine you could do that now. And many people tap into the equity of their property through mortgaging buying other assets and then making money from that to pay themselves back. So they're just moving money internally, with newfound Knowledge and newfound application to be able to just borrow from themselves. So they're using their own internal arbitrage as opposed to allowing the banks or the institutions to do it on their behalf and remove them from the profit. So, home capacity is pillar number one. pillar number two is the most underutilised, undervalued, poorly performing asset of all. And it's people's retirement plans. And my blood boils at the poor value that is delivered by most institutional pensions. Because in the end, people are buying into a long term accumulation plan to buy money in the stock market. Often at a retail price where the arbitrage is taken by the financial institutions. It's a product at the end of the day, and that product has to be sold for a profit. And there's a way to change that. But let's say most people don't. And institutionally, then they're depending on some long term future value. When they reach a retirement date, let's say someone reaches retirement with a reasonable pot of money, let's say two half million pounds, that sounds reasonable, they get half million pounds in their pot. And now they've got to turn that income from an asset that's fundamentally volatile and uncertain. And they need to create certainty of income for the rest of their life. That's an impossible task. When you've got the uncertainty of inflation, the uncertainty of the stock market, there's no compounding magically happening inside the stock market. And then you're dependent and you go into scarcity mindset for the rest of your life. Because you're hoping you can cling on to enough money to make that journey so that you've got some money left at the end of your life, as opposed to income that will be automatically accruing. And paying to you that's dependable, dependable, dependable, and not volatile. If you imagine in, you and I are both old enough to seen a few economic downturns. Now, if you imagine somebody hit 65, and then all of a sudden the stock market crashes like say 2008, and they lose 50% of their money. How do you recover from that? Short answer, you don't. And you live a life of compromise for the rest of your life. And I'm troubled by the lack of attention, and the lack of transparency that the pension industry shows. And as a result, most people do a very, very poor job. Because 500,000 If you were to talk to an advisor about that, they would say you can probably draw 4% out of that. So what's known as drawdown safe drawdown, not safe at all, but but let's imagine even if it were 4%, that's 20,000. But

Kevin Whelan  37:57  
if you want a decent income, and I mean, financial independence is like without compromise, it's doing things that you want to do when you want to do them on your terms. And for most people, that means increasing the income they need, because they want to enjoy life not compromise and skimp and scrape for the remainder of their life and then show that lesson to the next generation. It's a tragic, tragic waste of resources. And I'm passionate about changing that in two regards. One is to help people understand they can actually control the direction of their investment. And that's normally through recognising that they can take control. But most people fear that controls because they don't know how. So we teach how you can take control. And number two, is dramatically cut the fees. Because the vast majority of people in the UK, certainly and in America are paying around 2% of their overall value in fees and charges about seven different layers of fees. And I won't go into that today. But I've definitely done that on speeches and podcasts and other things. And those fees mean that if you take that 4% drawdown and if the stock market was say growing at six, and you're paying to for your money to be managed when the management is really quite simple. That's a third of your money being paid to a third party. And it's not just that consequence is that money is paid before you get paid. Me and before any growth before. So they take their money no matter what whether the market goes up or down they get paid. And I think that's wrong. And that's why I like to suggest to people ways that they can dramatically cut the cost of having their money managed. But they have to have stewardship. They have to be willing to learn what needs to be done and it is not complex Aggie on a different day I could share with you. What is done is not complicated. at all, it's actually so simple. But What's better is to learn other ways to grow your money, rather than rely on the stock market. And then before I get too much on my soapbox, pillar number three, which is investing outside of the pension in markets, is the same asset is the same problem. So there's an over concentration of people with property that doesn't work, stock markets that don't work fees that are overcharged, and an over concentration, the stock market in both retirement planning, and investing, because prices are in the same place as the pensions. And there's no way to prevent that, unless you're willing to invest some time in your own education. And I think so few people are willing to do that. But we've fortunately, we find enough, and we act as a catalyst. And then we said about providing the right education and support, and community and connection to help people discover that it is possible to move that paradigm to cross the Rubicon, from the pillars 123. To 4567. And on that side, we have number four, which is building a portfolio of property. So not the property you live in, but a portfolio property that you can rent out in generate an income from a third party, whether that's to a institution, whether it's to a company, whether that's to an individual, whether that's to a family, you know, there's dozens and dozens of different ways to serve a tenant type to get a recurring, not passive, but recurring income flowing into your life. Number five, is a business that works without you. So recurring income business along the lines that are described earlier in our conversation. Pillar six is intellectual property. How do you make money? How do you generate a recurring income from what you know, from what you do from what you're outstanding at? And how can you turn that into a rich source of revenue for the future? And then number seven really important joint ventures and collaborations? How do you bring your knowledge, skill time, combine it with other people's knowledge, skill, time, and create more value, where you share not just in the values with others, but you share in the value. So you don't have to be simply a product buyer. You can become a collaborator. So you could become a bank, you could lend your own money, you could invest with other people, there's just a myriad, a whole kaleidoscope of different ways that people find in our community to work together to create more value than the value they can create on their own. Because they're combining their mind the distinctions they make, and the and the principles that we share. And when you do all that, then you can achieve significant returns without the risk without the fees. And without that over dependence on stock market. So that's the nutshell whistlestop tour, The Seven Pillars of Wealth, you know, and I'm always fascinated if somebody can help me come up with number eight, because you know, you know, it's a great symbol of infinity. But I haven't found it yet. And I've been searching for 30 years, and I haven't found it. I've got some ideas where it might come from in the future, it will probably be our own intellectual property and our own ability to sell our own data. Because we're the data driven society. And at the moment people take our data from us and use it, I think in the future, we'll be able to sell it. And we'll own our own right and I will sell you the rights to my data. So you know what, I'm buying a new I'm buying it, but you pay me royalty for it, rather than you just collect the data. And then you use it for your own devices. I'm seeing you but I don't mean yet personally, I

Agi Keramidas  44:02  
should that might happen in the future at the moment. It's it's theoretical, but I was smiling throughout your wonderful explanation of the seven assets, especially when you talked about the number six and seven, the intellectual property in the joint venture venture. I thought that we could certainly have a whole one hour conversation on the podcast about only those two because I feel the way that you presented those seven that some of them at least in my sphere of knowledge and the other ones are more discussed than these two last ones. So I think there is quite a lot there. So maybe we can in the future. You know, go deeper on on those. And I will have limited time together and there is certainly a topic that I did You want to have a comment from us? Well, and that was improving financial literacy for our children. And I know you're very passionate about that. So, again, I would like to ask in a brief way, what if, even though I think the importance of it is beyond obvious, but if you could share just something for the importance of it. But even more than that, how can a parent take some actionable steps towards that direction towards educating or giving to the child more financial literacy?

Kevin Whelan  45:43  
That's a great question. I think the best way to frame this is if you've ever been on an aeroplane, when they're giving you the safety, demonstration and briefing, they say, when the oxygen mask falls, please secure your own mask before securing the child. And that's a perfect illustration of the mindset that take care of your own stewardship. And how we do that is encourage Emery, anyone who works within the wealth builders community, to create a family wealth business. In other words, we give it a name, we give it a logo, we give it an emblem, we give it values, so that people can begin to see that they are the beginning pioneers of a new form of paradigm, a new form of wealth creation that they start. And once they started, then by osmosis, whoever's around them is going to notice that. And then once they do that, it's then what are the lessons? The actionable things? Because you can't teach somebody else if you don't know enough? And part of the reason why I think, look, if you if you were to decide, well, why don't they teach it in schools? Why don't they teach at universities, because the very people with no disrespect, intended, who work in our schools and work in our educational establishments are not financially independent, they don't have the skills for that they're trading time for money, yes, in a very meaningful way. But without they don't have the skills to be able to teach. So it's not taught. And it's not going to get on the agenda anytime soon. So the only way to bring it on the agenda is for the parents to want to bring about the change. And then for the parents to change themselves. And once they do that, then they can bring a milder form of education, more participation, more involvement, we're creating a community called wealth builders, for families, case studies and examples of best practice that you wouldn't even dream people doing with their kids. But once you get somebody else's distinction, they'd like the collaborations and the joint ventures, you can see, wow, that's interesting. You know, that would really suit my child, number one, or my child number two, because all of our children are different. I've got three kids, you know, I paid for them all to go to private school and university education, but they're all completely different. And I love that, and no single way would have worked. And each one of them is pursuing a different career, a different path. And yes, I've tried to influence them. But in the end that influence, it's their core, whether they take it, but they're absorbing it, and they're speaking some of the language sometimes the joke, you know, because they know Dad's on his soapbox again. But I can live with that, because they understand the integrity and the intention through which I do things. So even if they're having a joke at my expense, they've got the lesson. Yeah. And, and they're open and willing to talk about things that are happening in their grown up life, you know, when they get a company car, or what is the tax return look like? Just some basic things that they can be, they can be more involved in feel that we can be trusted to help them overcome that. Because in the absence of that, they're going to be educated in the wrong direction, by the very institutions, the banks and the financial institutions, which will grab them at the earliest opportunity. And that grabbing takes place normally, when they get to about 18 and get to university and their details are paramount to every every institution around because they know they're going to be the earners of the future. And they want to put a syphon in their life. And I'm trying to encourage the opposite of that, for them to build wealth building syphons of their own, where automatic income is flowing into their life, even if they temporarily choose the job route. I still want them to understand when you can have a job and build three pillars, or you could learn enough in a job learn enough in that environment. And then when you're ready, become a business owner or become an entrepreneur, if that's a path that best suits who you are. And I think that will definitely apply to one or two of my sons and daughters. But it won't be all of them. You know, I'm certain, not all of them will be entrepreneurs. But the value of them all knowing these things, is not just in how it impacts on their life. But as we grow and build and protect our wealth, and we create a family charter with rules that they can then embrace and mend. Just like all charters have done in history, the next generation amends that and takes it to another level. And as long as the values of growing the wealth, with integrity, sharing, participating, as long as those things are there, then that money that I've worked hard to build, which is recurring, they will nurture and they will keep it and they will expand it for generations, way beyond me. So that in 150 years time, long after I've gone, you know, some will we toasting the old bugger that will be me, hopefully, I'm old. And saying congrats to dad, you know, with a glass of this or a glass of that, just to say, Yeah, we did a good job together. And, and I love that principle. And that's the principle that we share and teach.

Agi Keramidas  51:37  
Thank you, Kevin, I want to thank you for the truly fascinating discussion, I enjoyed very much, I have a couple of quickfire questions to ask you us. Wrapping it up. Before I do that, please share with the listener what's, what is the best place for someone to reach you and find out more about what you do?

Kevin Whelan  52:01  
Sure. Well, thank you for that. Wealth. builders.go to UK is the website. If there's any information you think, would be valuable, I can give every one of your listeners a free copy of the book, The Seven Pillars of Wealth, I'm more than happy to do that, if you care to give me a talk about a link, we can put a link in the show notes. They can download that, you know, so that's free in complimentary. Or just reach out on LinkedIn, Facebook, anywhere you you find old grey wisdom people like me, and say hi, and just listen to the podcast with Aggie and then that's just good. You know, I want I would love one person to be influenced enough to be a catalyst for them so that, you know, they go on a different journey to become financially independent, as opposed to being dependent.

Agi Keramidas  52:50  
Amen. No. And they also said, share that about at least one person because that one person has the potential to create a ripple effect beyond any other comprehension rather than and that's a completely different topic altogether. But thank you for bringing that up, as well. It is my wish. Also always with the podcast, I mean, so given a couple of quickfire questions, I always ask them, my guests and the first one is What does personal development mean to you?

Kevin Whelan  53:25  
It means being humble. To accept that you don't know everything yet.

Agi Keramidas  53:35  
I like it. And if you could go back in time so readily speaking and meet your 18 year old self? What's one piece of advice you would give him?

Kevin Whelan  53:45  
Well, I think the same. Don't be so arrogant to assume you know everything you're 18. Ma'am. So yourself out, take lessons from people who are older and wiser than you. You would have I would have been financially independent, much younger, had I not suffered my own pill of slight arrogance thinking I knew more than I did. I would have taken up pill a lot sooner. Definitely.

Agi Keramidas  54:11  
That's great. Kevin, thank you so much for this conversation today. I really appreciate it all the very best with your mission to empower others to become financially independent. Any last parting words?

Kevin Whelan  54:26  
No, just thank you for the opportunity to listen and repeating that point that if this has been a catalyst for you, let Aggie know. Because we'll watch those ripple effects. And if you're remotely interested in being a wonderful parent, to be a fantastic money role model for your kids get in touch because that would be coming early in 2023.

Agi Keramidas  54:52  
Thank you for listening, and I hope you got great value from today's episode. And if you'd be so kind, please take a moment to leave mean Apple podcasts review sharing how personal development mastery has made a difference to you today. Until next time, stand out don't fit in!

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