#286 Trusting the flow of life, the surrender experiment, and travelling to consciousness, with Clayton Cuteri.

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION

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Please note that while an effort is made to provide an accurate transcription, errors and omissions may be present. No part of this transcription can be referenced or reproduced without permission.

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Clayton Cuteri  0:00  
Look at the root system, look at each individual curve of bark on that tree. Look at the fine vein like structure of the leaves that are going through each leaf. And what happens and this is where it gets weird is if you do it and become super present with a tree. You're and this is where it might get a little wild for people, but your consciousness almost becomes a part of that tree

Agi Keramidas  0:35  
you are listening to personal development mastery podcast, providing those with the desire to grow with a simple, consistent actions needed to master personal development and create the life they yearn for. I'm your host Agi Keramidas. A few years ago, I found myself unfulfilled and unmotivated like I had lost my sense of purpose and my life was merely passing by. Since then, I've been on a continuous journey of personal development that has transformed every aspect of my life. Now, my mission is to inspire you to grow, stand out and take action towards a purposeful and fulfilling life. In this podcast, I invite myself inside the minds of remarkable entrepreneurs, authors, thought leaders, spiritual teachers, people who share the journey milestones and learnings for you to be inspired to grow. In this episode, you will find practical action points that you can implement right now. So make sure you follow the podcast to get them as soon as they are released. 

Agi Keramidas  1:42  
In today's episode, I am delighted to be joined by Clayton Cuteri. Clayton, you went from a high end state of the art software engineers to a podcaster talking about spirituality consciousness and contemplating the nature of reality. You say that in your journey, you started connecting with yourself after facing many trials and tribulations meditating, and two distinct silo Sabin therapies, you're now on a mission to help read the world of as much suffering as you possibly can. Clayton, welcome to the show. It's such a pleasure to be with you today.

Clayton Cuteri  2:23  
Thanks for having me. And I'm excited to see what rabbit holes we dive into with your audience and yourself.

Agi Keramidas  2:29  
It's showing why. And that's what exactly what we were talking about, just before we started recording that there are so many aspects that we can go towards. Let's see. Let's see how it goes. Before we go into any of that, I would like to hear more about your story about that. Before life that you had as a very successful software engineer, where you say that you were unfulfilled. So if you could take us back and paint the picture of how your life was then. And then also tell us what was the transition? What was the turning point for you to you know, move on to what happened afterwards?

Clayton Cuteri  3:13  
For sure, and you laid it out really well. But like to get into a little bit more of a artistic painting picture i i was living in San Diego, California, and I don't know who's been there if you've been there, but it's a absolutely beautiful city. I personally I've travelled all over the world been to about 200, maybe 250 different cities at this point. And I mean from a I call that place Neverland, like from, you know, just out of college. It's beautiful. Everything's amazing. People are amazing weather. It's beautiful. I lived in a part of Mission Beach. And so if you look at Mission Beach on a map, I had two beaches within a 32nd walk of my house, had an incredible friend group still have an incredible friend group was just living the quote unquote dream society was just I headed one in air quotes the societal game of life. Like you said, working on state of the art coding as a software engineer to beaches and a 32nd walk of my house. I had a great friend group, I was surrounded by beautiful women. We were setting a volleyball every single weekend. And whenever people would start to see the life I was living and I would tell them what I did for work. And what I was doing. I got to a certain point where when I would tell them I would see that they were enjoying that story more than I was enjoying telling it. And you do that enough times where you're like, Oh, this is where I live and this is what I do for work and their eyes light up more than you internally light up. That was where like these gears kind of started turning a little bit. I had a bizarre falling out with a girl and You know, that was kind of the first psilocybin ceremony that you alluded to in the opening remarks. But then the second one was, like the catalyst really, that really pushed me out. And up until this point, this catalyst moment, for maybe about two and a half years, I had been saying to myself, anytime I was talking to my parents, talking about how I knew I wasn't where I supposed to be, I knew that this job was pulling me down, if you will, it was not aiding in my growth or excitement of life. And it was a conflicting war with inside me because on one hand, you had the entire society. You had people telling you how, how great and how cool it was, your software engineer, and you got to beaches that 32nd walk from your house, like, this is amazing. This is the life but then internally, it was a question that I know you've experienced as well of, is this it? Is this the entire life is this what I did is this why I'm here is just to enjoy this. And so I started applying for jobs, but nothing was coming through, there was a couple cool, really cool crypto jobs that were coming across my plate, but nothing was sticking. And this is what led me then to that second psilocybin ceremony, where it was kind of mystical, it was kind of, you know, very enlightening, but the core message, and it's still isn't, I still can't fully explain it. But the message, somehow it penetrated every single cell of my body was that I needed to do what I feared most. And what I feared most at the time, being a software engineer with a very logical mindset, who had everything planned out who was very scheduled, who always made it to the gym on time, was to quit my job without a plan. And whenever I just embodied that feeling. I mean, I can still even remember to this day after feeling that it was like the most energised and enlightening and expansive feeling that I've probably still to this day and have ever had, and it lasted for probably, you know, at least a week. And, you know, maybe that kind of just raised my baseline. So quite frankly, maybe I'm still vibing off that energy. But so I ended up just quitting my job travelled the world. Along the way, I started my podcast. And, you know, long story short, I guess that's why we're here talking today. Wow.

Agi Keramidas  7:41  
You know, there were many things out of what you said one thing, that the first thing that I picked up was that you said that you had this senior war inside of you that you knew that you weren't where you're supposed to where you're supposed to be. And I think that is common, and many people experience that. However, not everyone takes steps to get out of it, they kind of accept it or try to forget about it or with any distraction that they can and they live the life despite knowing that or having that same feeling that there's something more than something else. This is not right or so I'm just making that as an observation for anyone who might be listening and kind of relating that. Have a feeling that this see this is it. And there was another thing that I wanted you to speak a bit more about, you said that when you had the second psilocybin ceremony, you were given the message, and you describe it, like, every single cell in your body knew the truth, excuse me. And the message was to do what you were most afraid of, which was to quit your job without any plan. Can you go back a bit on that experience and explain it because it is what you know, terrified when you did it, you just went and did it by having the faith or the trust behind that message that you received. I would like to know a bit more of that emotional turmoil that you had there and when it shifted, because you said that you felt very energised afterwards. So that's really fascinating for me to hear.

Clayton Cuteri  9:45  
Yeah, so And even as you're relaying it back to me, I completely understand how crazy that sounds right? Do what you fear most jump into the abyss do the unknown like that is a logically To the logical rational mind, that is a very scary thing to embody or to do. And if even if I kind of take a step back and look at how my life had progressed up to that point where I wasn't happy, I was stifling myself, I was kind of blocking myself, if you will, from experiencing joy. And it kind of just almost overflowed with this decision, there was this decision that I had made in this space, whether it was conscious or subconscious, or a different dimensional energy that had penetrated me, whatever it was, it almost unlocked that feeling of joy. And it was bizarre, because whenever I was feeling it and experiencing it, I was kind of getting bombarded with all of these messages that have kind of leaked into society, if you will. But I haven't fully grasped. So it was like, you know, the do what you fear most, of course, but I'm trying to lose my train of thought now. It was like, do what you fear most it was find, you know, live as if, you know, this is the last day on earth or, you know, and I think that's a probably a big one, too. We could sit on for a second because many people hear that like, right? Like if I was to die tomorrow, did I do everything that I wanted to do? Am I living the life that I was supposed to live in? If majority of people and maybe not the majority of people who listen to your podcast, but majority of people in the world looked at themselves in the mirror? unequivocally, I would argue that they would probably say no, they would probably say that they had regrets. They wish they did something they wish he travelled somewhere they wish they would have said something to someone. And it's almost as if that rational brain attaches to fear, and then prevents us from exploring that empathetic and energetic self. And I don't want to bash the rational mind, because I think it's very powerful in many ways. But I believe in, at least in Western civilization, for sure, by Western civilization, I mean, the United States, we have this over saturation, or this over enjoyment with indulging ourselves in the physical world, from material things to ego identification with position or authority, and even kind of what you're saying. And I was kind of thinking about this, when you were talking about that initial point of interest, which was like that inner war. And this is where it gets really interesting with the idea of meditation is that majority of people, when they hear the word meditate, they think of, you know, probably a Buddhist monk sitting on their, you know, sitting on a cushion, with their eyes closed in a forest, just not thinking about anything. And in reality, there's, that's the only one form of meditation in reality, you can meditate. It was a call dot extro. I think it's called extra step extra terrorists apt. And then there's intercept interceptive, and extra receptive. I might be butchering those words. But the fundamental point being is that that Buddhist monk vision is into is intercepting, it's looking inward, it's looking at that inner world. And then x terror receptive is looking at the outer world, looking at the world around you. And so both of these are almost that duality that you see in the yin and yang, where you have that external world, and you have the internal world. And the goal of all of it is to maybe the goal isn't the right word. But one way to look at it is where are you placing your eggs. And in my story, I was placing my eggs in the external world of the validation of the societal game that I was playing that I had, quote unquote, one versus then pushing to the side, my inner world and saying, Well, look, the external world is giving you all the validation. Let's cling to that, let's hold on to that. But meanwhile, my inner world is sitting there screaming for help screaming to be seen screaming to be heard. And I think that, I guess at this current time, I believe that there has to be a way or that we need to find a way to bring both of those worlds in alignment. There's a world to have, there's a way to have the external world being mirrored by that internal world. But if you find yourself in this place where one of them is getting, chokehold, or suffocated or brought down by the other one, then that's when we can start to look towards being out of alignment in some way in our life.

Agi Keramidas  14:43  
Thank you and I will go back to them with the topic of meditation in a moment, because it is something very into a very important distinction that you made about the inner and the out there or external? Before, there is still one thing I wanted to ask you about that period, that period when you after you quit your job without any plan, because it relates to, you know, when you have a job or something like that you'll have a certain level of security that, you know, I don't mean just financially, but generally, you know what might happen. So when you stopped when you quit your job without any plan, how long were you in a uncertain situation where you had to, you know, perhaps question your decision or, or? Or did it sort itself out back into a more certain environment for you fairly quickly? I hope my question makes sense.

Clayton Cuteri  15:55  
And make sense, I'm trying to think of how to articulate my answer, because what's coming through right now is the feeling of the only thing we know is that we know nothing. And the sense of the idea of security is kind of coming up with this as well, where you can say that it was in a very secure and safe place, however, could also argue that I am also in a position where so many things are out of my control, I have no idea what decisions management's making, I have no idea if the books that they're keeping are legit. So for all I know, I could wake up tomorrow, and then the entire company could have been built on twigs, and could have fall around me and it could have forced me into this path. And, and it really invokes the idea in my mind, also of surrender, of being able to surrender to what is happening around you what is unfolding around you, whether it's surrendering to that inner voice, in my case, because I was so identified with the external and outer world that I sort of needed to surrender to this inner knowing. And, again, you know, it brings up the idea of fear and worry, and, I don't know, for a while after that, so after I had quit, I ended up moving down to Brazil for about two months. And I, so I lived down there, it was an incredible experience. And, you know, while I was there, my, my, my to do list was essentially practice and train Brazilian jujitsu practice and train my Brazilian Portuguese, and then work on my podcast, because I kind of arose out of it. And you know, there were times whenever I would sit there and be like, where's money coming from? How's this gonna happen? And, and again, I see that as that logical mind coming in to try to play safe or try to be the carrier of protection in this physical world. But as I've kind of walked down this path further, I've more seen that the universe is kind of just gonna orchestrate all of this stuff in the background. And you don't really need to do as much as you think that you need to do, you can kind of take almost a backseat. And even in the last week or two, I've really been diving into this idea, I highly recommend the book if someone wants to see this at a macro level, highly recommend the book the surrender experienced by Michael singer, because it highlights how, and I have so many questions, honestly, even just around that book, but it really highlights how you can just kind of sit back and almost do nothing and and kind of just even just watch how the external world will manipulate around you to provide you with different insight about yourself or provide you with the money right when you need it, or the food right when you need it. And it's it's something that I've always kind of unconsciously seen. And even more so as I've kind of taken this path. And I think you probably have to have some sort of life experience in order to get to this place. Now, you know, for myself, I didn't start acknowledging it. Tell us about 26. So maybe some people can see it earlier, but I'm sure even your age, you can see where, like certain events occur, and we judge them as either good or bad or, or they're not the way we want things. But then whether it's a week or a month or a year later, we see how that event completely changed the trajectory of our life to see or embody something that we would have never done or never thought was our catalyst to getting to this moment or to this place that we were looking for. So a huge part of my experiences, you know, we, we all have these universal thoughts of, of where's the next dollar coming from? How am I going to get food? What happens if this person doesn't like me? What happens if that person doesn't like me? Did I say this in the wrong way in this conversation did I do all this and where it comes back to is just realising that that's just the mind trying to protect you. But we don't have a logical way of describing or implementing that if we just surrender and just say, you know, ignore not ignoring those thoughts, but at least not attaching to them, letting them flow past us, letting them move on to wherever they're trying to go. And we can just sit back and just say, oh, that's an interesting thought. I mean, that's not me, like, I'll just let that kind of go, oh, that's an interesting thought as well. But I don't want to embody that. And just take this place of being an observer to the world around us. I'm led to believe that, you know, it's this idea of, we're always going to be getting lessons and provided for and all of these different magical things that we want to experience, right, we want to experience miracles, but yet we have every single part of our day planned out, or we know exactly where we're going to go for coffee, we know exactly when we get to the office, we know exactly the conversation we're going to have with Bob at the water fountain, whenever we get to the office, it takes away those miracles. And so we almost logically over engineer our entire life. And instead, there has to be some level of just stepping back and saying, I'm really not in control of anything, I'm not in control. If this job is going to be here tomorrow, I'm not in control, if my spouse wants to leave me tomorrow, so I'm just going to adopt this place of surrender to the flow of life, I'm going to embody that energy of water and allow myself to shape and mould and move with whatever life situations are going to present me with.

Agi Keramidas  22:01  
That's a wonderful answer. Thank you for for this and you said and that by using the rational the logical mind, which is its its role is to protect us to keep us from from harm from to keep us alive, right? Rather than thriving. You said to use the phrase we over engineer or life and that is very, very correct by doing that. And then on the other hand, you use the few times the word surrender, which I think it is very appropriate, it is very explicit of exactly what is happening in this situation. And as for the book, Michael singers book I've ever read it as well. And it is incredible how the story whether what miracles happened in his life by deciding to experiment by surrendering and you know, whatever opportunity came in front of him, he will just say yes, even though he would struggle very much his logical mind could find all the reasons not to do that. But he did anyway. So it's, it's certainly a book that is very much worth reading. Let's go back to the meditation I clicked on I wanted to ask a couple of more things about that distinction between the Enos ward or you said, the Buddhist monk and because last year, I will digress for a moment and share my own experience. Last year, I did a 10 day Vipassana silent meditation retreat, and that is completely internal, it was taught by the Buddha. And it's basically is looking inside your body, your physical and mental structure and you know, observing the arising and passing of sensations. And that is for me, and probably for the majority of people and correct me if I'm wrong, or if you feel differently, I think this kind of Enos of looking is what they have most associated meditation with. So you were telling me earlier about the external show, do you want to maybe describe how can one practice that? Is that some technique or is it something that you integrate with some other kinds of meditation? Is that something that I didn't quite get from earlier when you were saying that?

Clayton Cuteri  24:45  
Are you saying like the external version of mouth or that yes, yes. The best way that I have seen this written out and the best way that I've experienced it myself, is in nature. And you can honestly do this with anything you want. went you can do this with physical objects. But I've noticed the, this, this the best whenever I'm like out in nature, something else that's living and so I would recommend a tree for people. But it's just becoming, you become so present, you sit down, you find a tree, you look at it. And the goal is is to the goal. The goal is such a weird, a weird phrase. But the objective almost I guess the goal will say the goal, the goal or your intention that you should take with it, that's a better

Agi Keramidas  25:33  
way in tension response, mate, yeah,

Clayton Cuteri  25:35  
that's a veteran, the intention that I would I would give you to look at this is find a tree sit down in a comfortable position. And then find all the little details of that tree. And I'm saying get down to the almost anatomical level, if you will, of what you're able to see what that tree, visualise how the bark moves up to the tree, see if you can see every single leaf that is on that tree, and don't just look at it and be like, That's a tree, okay, there's the trunk, there's the leaves, it's like Nananana. Now, it's like, look at the root system, look at each individual curve of bark on that tree, look at the fine vein like structure of the leaves that are going through each leaf. And what happens and this is where it gets weird is if you do it, and become super present with that tree. You're and this is where it might get a little wild for people. But your consciousness almost becomes a part of that tree, you almost are able to embody the energy field that is of that tree and of yourself. And so, you know, this is obviously the opposite of going in. And you can do this with anything. But I've noticed that the best whenever I'm dealing with like plant life, or you know something that's in nature, and you know, you I mean it depends on how advanced you are with meditating, it might take you anywhere from 10 minutes, five minutes to 30 minutes to an hour to actually get to that state. But, you know, as you're even looking at this tree, you'll notice that those thoughts come up. Oh, what did I say? What was the last thing I texted Andrew the other day or, you know, I need to get a drink of water. I'm feeling dehydrated. And again, it goes back to No, no, my intention is to focus on this tree, I'm going to let any thoughts go, I'm just going to focus on the intricate beauty that this tree has to provide. And, you know, again, it's that you can find yourself in a very similar meditative state going inward as you can going outward with this type of tech technique or this type of intention setting process, if you will.

Agi Keramidas  27:49  
And that's fantastic. Thank you for sharing that. And now that you said that I realised that yes, of course I have done similar things sometimes looking at the see for sure, or three or even the sky and with the three when you were saying that. My My experience is that what if I look at it carefully enough, and I'm not distracted and my whole attention is there, then it becomes brighter. I can really, but it shows in a different way. It doesn't show like you would normally look at a tree. It's much more Yeah, I think why bright, vibrant. Such a beautiful experience. Yes, exactly. So which is something that

Clayton Cuteri  28:39  
will and so what's so fascinating about that feeling right there is that was exactly what I was feeling whenever I came out of that psilocybin ceremony. Whenever I came out of realising I needed to do what I fear most is that energy that vibrance, was embodied by everything that I saw around me, without me consciously needing to say, Okay, I'm gonna just enjoy that vibrant nature, it just was, everything just was vibrant. And I believe that and even as we're talking about this, I believe that a part of me sees it that this is the lack of or the absence of judgement, the absence of saying that something's right or wrong saying that someone's ugly or beautiful, saying that, you know, the steel companies the problem for all of worlds, you know, whatever. It's that absence of judgement that you no longer attached to every little physical thing. And instead it brings you to this almost holy like place within yourself and the world around you of being able to see that vibrance or the energy, the the pure energy of everything around you just radiating in such a way that's it's beyond words. It's something really that you got to find a way to experience for yourself.

Unknown Speaker  29:52  
Don't have the percent I agree with you and you mentioned being in nature and I think that is social something very useful and very practical because it's one thing to try and to be at home or in your office and meditate. It's much more challenging what's more difficult with even the vibration of the place, but it's so much different when you are in a peaceful place in nature. A forest or something like that is perfect or a park. For me also the beach and the sea is very much

Agi Keramidas  30:30  
meditative Sal will say even walking around, that is something that will create not not all the time I wish I could be able to. I will use now the phrase create the state even though it's not about creating the state meditation is not but you know, many times we

Clayton Cuteri  30:52  
oh, yeah, well, exactly what you're saying. It's not creating, and it's almost that it's always there. It's just Yeah, being that state, it's finding a way to shift into that state. And, and I mean, I'll let you know if I can figure out how to maintain that state 24/7. But I do believe that it's, again, going back to the surrender experience, I I believe that there is something there to surrendering to the beauty of every moment, and just not placing your mind in the future in the past and, and truly just being in that non judgmental place. And, again, maybe it's just a process, I think it was also something of like the universe, even as we're talking about this, just giving me that little glimpse of like, Hey, here's what's possible. Now figure out how to come back to this. And I'm just like, an I kind of probably not paid attention to how to get back there. But, you know, that's certainly somewhere that I am, I guess probably on a unconsciously trying to get back to is to be in that state 24/7?

Agi Keramidas  31:51  
Yes, I'm not I think that's a big topic on its own. I remember reading, I think it was at cartoni. That he said that it's it's only realising the truth. And then it doesn't, you don't walk around in a state of bliss all the time. It's not like that. Clayton, I will, probably a bit abruptly switch gears a bit because there is another topic that I wanted to discuss with you about and that's your, your podcast, travelling to consciousness. So do you want to tell me briefly what it is that you do there in the podcast? And why do you do it?

Clayton Cuteri  32:36  
So good question. I mean, partially, I don't know what I'm doing with it. It's partially the answer. But I guess the core things that I do know what I'm doing is, my goal is to just have long form conversations with people, I find that I just am a very naturally curious person trying to figure out more. It seems like majority of my guests have lately been spiritual content creators who are trying to dive into the world of, you know, life, life between lives and the journey that we're kind of all going on. Whether it's you know, aliens, or reincarnation, or things like the law of one, I've really tried to bring on just people from different walks of life to just figure out what the hell's going on, figure out the questions that I have for them. I recently had a guy on who talks about paganism, and to me and, and even saying that word, I know that there's going to be listeners out there who took a step back and, and thought to themselves Whoa, like, Get that away from me. And I completely sympathise with him because I had that same reaction. And I didn't know why. And my whole goal in life is to pursue that, why why do I feel the way that I feel about certain things? So bringing him on was in a very enlightening conversation for myself even to sit here and say, like, Okay, why did I have this belief structure around paganism? And he kind of walks it through. And it's hilarious as we went through it, because there were so many little things where I'm like, wait a second, I believe that to or wait a second, you start your day off with gratitude, like I do that as well. And so it's very interesting to kind of unravel these different mysteries or topics and, and so I've kind of really just started finding myself just going down that path of what am I interested in? And so I know it's going to kind of shift over time. But the core concept right now is just that I'm on this path of having very long form conversations with people because I feel that there's some sort of stream or there's this like underlying current that can kind of take us to wherever we're trying to go. And it's it's really been just an amazing journey. And I mean, honestly every poskitt podcast episodes and amazing journey because I deliver it to the people just uncut, uncensored, unfiltered. It's completely raw. It's, you know, we press record and I press upload. So that's really the extent of editing, maybe plus or minus a few ads that I throw in. But for the most part, everything's there. And, yeah, it's a, it's a beast. It's a beast of an animal to create. And I don't really know what the future holds for it. I do want to get different people on from different areas. But right now I'm kind of just following what my intuition and my heart is having me explore.

Agi Keramidas  35:31  
That's a beautiful Lancet. And it's kind of brought me back. I don't know, how long have you been doing this particular

Clayton Cuteri  35:38  
podcast? About a year and a half? Yeah.

Agi Keramidas  35:42  
So it kind of reminded me of my own journey. I've been doing four and a half years now with our podcast, I started very much as curiosity. And then I realised that I enjoyed it a similar way to what you were saying, and then my curiosity led me to different things. And even one or two years before, if you had told me that I would be following this direction and doing this with the posters, I probably wouldn't have believed it, because of course, I just took the next step and follow the journey wherever it takes me. Sure. It's, it's a beautiful journey. And you have some very intriguing topics for the people who want to really explained to me, it sounds like quite I don't know if nice is the right word for it. In some ways it is. But is there some kind of what I'm trying to figure out? The best way to describe the My question would be along the lines of who is it that you make the podcast for apart for yourself, because you do it. And it's

Clayton Cuteri  37:01  
I have a I have a buddy who actually lives out in San Diego. And you know, when you get into the space of creating something, whether it's a product or a business, or in this case, a podcast, they tell you to develop what they call an avatar, which is like kind of a person who you're creating this thing specifically for. And so I did have a friend out in San Diego, who I like, I used to at least more so visualised, like I'm making it for this person, right. But even more so as I've been diving, kind of through this, and you know, in this, I've kind of really just been relying on my intuition, I've just kind of been keeping it super. I don't the word basic isn't the I mean, simple. I've been keeping it super simple in terms of, kind of just want to keep it long form. And I just want to talk to people who I find interesting and that I don't even just that I find interesting. But I like also need to see a way that we're going to like be approaching this topic together. Because if I can think someone's interesting, but if I don't have like that nugget to kind of take me like, like a flashlight, it's like I could see a cave. That's interesting. But if I don't have the right flashlight to make my way through the cave, then I'm not going to really bring that person on, because I just don't know exactly how I'm going to traverse this interesting cave. And so it's interesting, because it started off, if you go back to the early episodes, it was kind of just my friend group. And then it transitioned into spirituality at a general level, and then it kind of transitioned into spiritual pot content creators. And so now, I'm still kind of in the spiritual content creators, but for some reason, I have a feeling it's going to start heading towards, like a conspiracy direction. But again, I don't, I don't really know. I mean, I'm gonna write out the spiritual content creators, I guess, as long as the energy is telling me to and, and it's interesting, just like you're saying, the idea of it being a niche, I guess I view it almost as like, I'm picking up people along the way. So I'm sitting in the spiritual content creator route for a while, and maybe the next is the conspiracy, you know, theory and I'll have on, you know, a bunch of people from that rabbit hole, and we'll see how you know, that'll pick up people and I really don't know, I'm kinda this goes back to what you're talking about earlier. I'm kind of just in that place of surrender. And wherever the universe is gonna take me it's going to take me I, I have goals and aspirations. But I'm very much just going to take my hands off the wheel and let that flow of life just direct the podcast wherever it needs to go.

Agi Keramidas  39:30  
I like it. I like it. That's a great. It's a great answer. And I like this approach to doing things as well. Clayton, I have some final quickfire questions to ask to wrap the conversation. But before I do that, where will you direct the listener who has really enjoyed listening to you and wants to find out more about you in what you do.

Clayton Cuteri  40:01  
Yeah, I would say just typing to type in travelling to consciousness, whether it's on any social media platform, guess tick tock, I go by clinky Terry on there, but you to Instagram, Spotify, Apple, any podcast platform, just type in travelling to consciousness and yours truly will pop up. I have been a little bit lackadaisical on YouTube for the time being. But for the most part, I suggest you, you can also update my podcast twice weekly. So you get like a personal one of me, and then you get one long form with a guest. So that's really what I'm trying to build right now. I also have my own personal app. So if you're on the iOS or Google Play Store, definitely click Check out the travelling to consciousness app, where you get everything and I release articles there, I release a lot more stuff. And then there's like extra content that I've put behind a paywall, or even the ad free version of my podcast if you don't like the interruptions that occur every 15 or 20 minutes on the podcast. So that's kind of my deal. That's kind of what I'm doing. And, yeah, I'm interested for your questions. But I know I have a tendency to give long answers. So I'll try to keep them as condensed as I can.

Agi Keramidas  41:17  
Should they I have a few, like, keep them as condensed, as you said, as you can. My first one is What does personal development mean to you?

Clayton Cuteri  41:28  
Well, I think it's in the name, I think the core answer is that it's personal. I think it's, it's something that we're each individually on. And I believe that if you are in the space, or you're trying to find someone who is, you know, this personal development, you need to find someone who's going to be asking you good questions, because, in my personal belief, my personal belief, I don't think there's a cookie cutter answer for how we personally develop ourselves. I think it's very unique. I think it's very unique to the individual. And you just need to figure out that next question to unlock the bigger picture that you're looking for.

Agi Keramidas  42:05  
That's great. And, hypothetically speaking, if you could go back in time and meet your 18 year old self, what's one piece of advice you would give him?

Clayton Cuteri  42:16  
So I laugh at this because I have talked to my 18 year old self.

Unknown Speaker  42:22  
Even better, chicken? Yeah, you can speak the answer from your experience. Yeah,

Clayton Cuteri  42:28  
you can. And so if that kind of doesn't make sense to people, you can go into a deep state of meditation and actually kind of conjure up your past self and past predicaments. And, you know, help yourself learn from situations. And so, you know, I have those, I guess it's hard to answer because I have those conversations with my younger self, and even future self, because we can tap into those things, which is probably a much longer conversation than we have time for right now. But generally speaking, it would just be to trust the flow of life, you know, surrender to the what's happening, and just kind of go through it and realise that even if right now you're not experiencing what you want to experience, there's something right now for you to learn, that's going to help you when you are experiencing what it is that you want to experience.

Unknown Speaker  43:16  
And that's the flow of life. Beautiful. Thank you. And based on all the conversations that we had today, if you were to give to the listener, something practical, something actionable that he or she can implement, what would you tell her? Or him?

Clayton Cuteri  43:35  
I would give them a question. And I would use this question and be ready, because the answer to this question is likely not going to be something you want to hear. And I've partially gotten this from Dr. Jordan Peterson, but I, you know, go into a place of meditation. Or you could probably do this very simply, it depends on where you're at. But ask yourself, you know, what is something I should be doing, that I'm not doing? Or what is something I know I should be doing that I'm not doing? Or if you're kind of like a little bit more spiritually minded. You can ask like, what is the universe trying to communicate with me that I need to take action on that I'm not doing and you can play with that around with that question. But the core energy of it is that we internally know, the next thing to do that will level up our lives. And when I say level up, it's not like, Okay, I'm lifting 100 pounds right now. And I'm going to be lifting 110 It's like, you'll ask it that question. And whatever it tells you to do, if you start doing that, it will level you up from like, 100 pounds to like 300 pounds. And it's in where it gets difficult for people, quote, unquote, in air quotes, is the answer is going to be something you don't want to do. It's going to be something that you're not ready for. It's going to be and it's something I'm kind of dealing with right now. Because my personal answer to that question is become more scheduled and be more, a little bit more rigid, right? Because as I've been taking you on this journey, like I was very rigid, and now I'm like in the flow, but then it's like now telling me to go into this schedule. And I've been dealing with some resistance in that scheduling. So I know that that's like, the next thing like I logically no this so like, I am not perfect. I know that that is the thing that's going to take my life from where it is now and exponentially double it or triple it or whatever it's going to do. Yet, I still even feel that internal resistance to creating that schedule. So this is a great way even for you to get into the viewpoint of like, what resistance is like, you're gonna hear this thing and I promise you that you'll resist it. If you're not resisting it, then it's not the right answer. Your ego is probably answering that question. So if you hear an answer, and you're like, I don't want to hear that, then that's definitely the thing that you need. Yeah. Absolutely. That's

Agi Keramidas  45:54  
a great question. And thank you for for sharing it with us, Clayton. I want to thank you very much for a fascinating conversation. I really enjoyed it. And I want to wish you all the very best with your your plans, your intentions about the future and your your mission really show any last parting words from you?

Clayton Cuteri  46:16  
I appreciate the space I gave thanks. I mean, I have a feeling we're going to talk to each other again in the future. I'm not sure when but I am grateful for having you for you having me on your podcast. There we go get that out. And I guess I just popped into my mind now I'm going to be hosting a yoga retreat at the in the beginning of May. So you know, click on my link tree and go check that out. And I know it'll be in the description of any of my podcast episodes. So if you want to learn more about this meditation stuff, well let's let's do it in person.

Agi Keramidas  46:52  
Thank you for listening, and I hope you got great value from today's episode. And if you'd be so kind, please take a moment to leave me in Apple podcasts review sharing how personal development mastery has made a difference to the day.

Agi Keramidas  47:10  
Until next time, stand out, don't fit in!

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