#410 How can mid-career men transform a midlife crisis into a career upgrade opportunity, with Anna Urnova.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

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Anna Urnova 0:00

A lot of men shared the same story which was almost like a suddenly they woke up and things that were fun and enjoyable to them. They were not enjoyable anymore. They feel somehow energy is gone. Fire is gone, motivation is gone they lost their mojo, and most where they found it affected the life the most was at work.

Agi Keramidas 0:25

You're listening to personal development mastery, the podcast that empowers you with a simple and consistent actions today that will help you create a life of purpose and fulfilment. I'm your host Agi Keramidas. And this is episode 410. Do you sometimes feel like you're stuck in a soul draining job or facing a midlife crisis? Then this episode is your roadmap to transformation. By listening today, you will discover how to navigate a midlife crisis and transform it into a career upgrade opportunity. And you will also gain insights into a five step process that facilitates career transitions. Before we dive in, if you enjoy listening and appreciate what we're doing here, the simple quick favour I'm asking of you is to click the subscribe button. Now let's get started.

Agi Keramidas 1:30

Today it is my pleasure to speak with Anna Urnova. Anna, you are an award winning career coach with over 25 years of experience specialising in helping mid career men break free from Soul draining jobs. Your unique approach combines heart and logic to help your clients achieve unprecedented success and fulfilment. You're passionate about helping men overcome midlife crisis, reclaim their energy and power and thrive both in impact and income. Anna, welcome to the show. So it's a pleasure to speak with you today.

Anna Urnova 2:08

Hi Agi. Thanks a lot for having me on the show. And I love the introduction. It really feels like I've just received a big present from you. Thank you.

Agi Keramidas 2:18

It is true. It is I think it is important, you know, of course you are the one receiving it. But also the listener right now also gets an idea of who the person speaking with. With me today is so I'm very much looking forward to this conversation because I can relate personally I think many people will be able to relate personally and we'll talk about midlife. There is a phrase I read somewhere you wrote a midlife upgrade and I like that more than midlife crisis but I suppose one follows the other. So you need some kind of crisis to propel you towards saints. But anyway, we'll talk about that. Before we go there. What I'd like to start with is by asking you what inspired you to specialise in helping men overcome midlife mid career crisis?

Anna Urnova 3:25

Yes, that's a good question. Well, it actually evolved naturally again. When I started working as a coach, I just took any any work that was coming my way and my I worked with corporate clients and business schools. So whoever they would give me as a client I would work with right so they were mostly executives going through executive educational programmes learning to be better leaders or so they said that they were on the programme to learn to be better leaders be more effective. I worked with specific companies I worked with individual executives, top managers, I worked with groups with teams and so on. So it was it was very exciting. I learned a lot but it was a little bit all over the place. But so in terms of there were variety of pliers, variety of types of coaching, sometimes it was coaching for three very intense hours and never seeing the person again, sometimes it would be actually involved with the person quite closely or over a number of modules over 18 months or two years or something like that. Right. So I said every everywhere from three hours to three years. That was how varied my coaching assignments were. And at some point I decided I needed to specialise because I wanted to grow my own business, my own, you know, client clientele, rather than just, you know, be led by business schools or whatever, you know, whatever corporate would offer me and that needed, you know, to specialise. So I actually sought advice and I analysed and it was I was already by then about About a decade into coaching, so I look to over a decade back in terms of so who are my favourite guys? Where am I, most of my clients and I noticed something that majority, the vast majority, just like over 80%, even not more of my clients were men. And that the best, let's say results also enjoyable for me. Where were these people were looking for change. Yeah, and I also looked at majority of this request for career change career pivots, came at, at around this midlife mid career point, which I actually did not have that definition. So to say, midlife change, mid career pivot mid career upgrade, but I noticed that there's somehow something happened 35 to 55 years of age roughly, but mostly like 35 to 45 something happens where a lot of these male clients were coming with a seemingly a request officially, that the company would want them to be better leaders, right, or that they would want to get a promotion or they want like a top manager wants his team to be more effective. And then as we started to get to know each other, this, this actually undercover request came on board came online, which was about the person actually looking for for change. Some people wanted to be promoted, for instance, they crave a big role, like be a business leader, be a CEO, for instance, some people wanted to change industry, some people wanted to change geography, that was actually a very common request when people wanted to move and move the family to a different country. And also, there was a group of people, which was much bigger than you would expect were loose, seemingly very successful at corporate but their dream was to get free from nine to five and do their own thing. Right. And the those requests were sort of undercover because the official was like our I'm, you know, getting more strategic dadada. But once we got to know each other said, Anna, you know what I really my dream on my heart, but please don't tell my company. I want to have my own business, right? And suddenly, I thought, hey, these requests, they actually were a lot more rewarding, right? And I started and that's how I started specialising then at first I actually had women on board too. But then I realised that actually men and women navigate the military differently. They have different challenges and what what actually made specialising on men easier for me as well, there were amazing coaches out there, who's who helped specifically women navigate the midlife mid career, right? So I thought, hey, why would I do a bad job? And some people, you know, do it much better. So I started specialising on men and I realised yes, that there's something going on there and afterwards already, I looked into this midlife, you know, midlife situation and I realised Yes, there is something there, which is more than just Korea. It's a, it's a kind of existential crisis. So to say, not to use a big word here where a man needs to find his meaning he needs to find his purpose he needs to fight he needs to feel that he's sharing his gifts and he's leaving, you know, he's working to leave a legacy that he and his kids and humanity let's say would be proud of so to say. And and that gave a new impetus to you know, a new a new dimension to my work.

Agi Keramidas 8:36

And I will say from my own personal experience that I can resonate very much with what you're saying and I have you know, experience not exactly these but similar situations and I think anyone listening now that has been through something like that. And no, is it maybe not entirely but knows it? So for those that may be not entirely sure if this is exactly the case for them, or maybe as you were saying, they're sadly hiding it under something else. Can you share some common signs that someone is experiencing this sad we'll call it crisis and we call it I don't know if you want to use that word, or if you want to, if you prefer some other word to describe this.

Anna Urnova 9:27

The crisis is a good word let's Yeah, I know men don't often don't like to say midlife crisis because we have a kind of, you know, proverbial stories about the poor Shea trophy wife and you know, all that all that stories which associated with midlife crisis and give it the bad rap you noticed somehow a guy who seems to be like looking for something and you know, and the kind of the consensus is that he's, you know, he just needs to settle you know, he just needs To be more serious, there's something right. And it's not what I'm talking about what but let's talk about symptoms. Yeah, so So what what men was sharing with me over and over again, that's somehow 35 Well, most common, I noticed like 38, kind of 38. And then you know, 4040 to 45, a lot of men shared the same story, which was suddenly almost like a suddenly they woke up and things that were fun and enjoy enjoyable to them, they were not enjoyable anymore, they feel somehow energy is gone. Fire is gone, motivation is gone, the last module, and most where they found that, that affected affected the life the most was at work. Of course, let's, let's face it, we spend a lot of time at work, right. And it takes a lot of energy. And it's also important for man's identity work and what they're doing in life and how to provide for the family. And so a lot of notice that somehow what was fun before somehow, you know, suddenly felt boring, filled all of the same, started to ask questions, what's next? And when they kind of projected what they were doing forward, it didn't, it didn't look good, they could not enjoy themselves. They could not imagine themselves doing what they were doing for the next 510 15 years or more and still enjoying it. Right? A lot of guys felt somewhat stuck, stagnant. In fact, Erik Erikson is a psychologist who is very well known for describing stages of human development. He said that this mid career or midlife, he said this, this midlife period is about tension between stagnation and generativity. So a lot of men came and said, I feel somewhat stagnant. I feel it's all the same. I feel like I need to, I meant to be doing something else. So that was a recurring theme. And by the way, generativity is the something when you do for let's say, for next generations for others, right. So a lot of men said, had this complain, that they not feel utilised by the companies or their jobs that currently doing even though they can busy and they paid well, they don't feel utilised. So I started asking, guys, so what percentage, let's say of you the utilising at this work, and the numbers were terrifying, like 20% 30%, I can do it in my sleep, right? Or I'm busy with most of the stuff that it's not really me, right? Things like that, as an started the I started thinking, can you imagine this super experienced guys, right? they've accumulated so much knowledge experience, and 80% of that, let's say 50% of that this goes way to waste, right? A lot of men feel that they have unrealized potential. That's actually one of the very, very common feelings that I have so much in me to give, and I have a dream on my heart. And I kind of started doing this corporate job feeling that you know, to pay the bills, blah, blah, blah. But then at some point, at some day, I will actually do something else, which I really dream about. And what happened that midlife and mid career that someday suddenly arrived, you know, they're like, Oh, my God, I'm already in Sunday. This is Sunday. If I don't do it, now, there's a sense of urgency that if I don't do something, now, I may not be able to do it. 510 years down the line. So that's a kind of a reckoning, let's say many men felt the day of reckoning in terms of, they suddenly started to think about how many years they have left. And they felt isn't enough time to actually make my dream come true. That's one on the other hand, it was too many years to just soldier through things if they were not happy. If they were soldiering through things they were just working, let's say to pay the bills, just tolerating where they are. They felt oh, maybe doing it for five years. I could but I have 20 years ahead of me right foot five still 20 years to work. It's no way there's no way I can soldier through another 20 years. Right. So all these conversations all this came to came as a sign. Okay, something needs to change. Right. And you mentioned the word crisis. I mean, midlife is not the only time when we have crisis as humans I mean, if if if you have kids, I have kids. If your audience have kids, we know that I mean small kids, they have crisis like every I mean there's a one year crisis a three year crisis, right seven year crisis. And basically what it means is that whatever made sense before and whatever whatever instruments we had to cope and you know, be effective and live before not valid anymore because there is an upgrade. Actually, there is a a new capabilities came online. And now this person you know, needs to grow. It's a crisis of growth so to say so and I believe that's why I'm insist on the word upgrade because I believe a lot of people think, okay, midlife crisis means I'm getting old need to settle, you know, say goodbye to my dreams, close the doors and many things. And that's it, where I'm saying no, listen, we live so much, so much longer right now. So and if you have 20 years to go in your career, it means that you can really have an upgrade right now, right? And you have, you can launch yourself onto the new trajectory. And you don't have to suffer in those symptoms that we just described, it could be a much, much happier, bigger impact and income experience for you.

Agi Keramidas 15:48

If you enjoy this episode, can you think of one person that would find it useful and share it with them, I'd really appreciate it it helps the show grow. And you will also be adding value to people you care about. Thank you. And now let's get back to the episode. I liked it as I told you that like the word update. For me the word that I have been using under like is the midlife awakening because it leads to that. There was some things that you said earlier when you were describing symptoms of this that I I took I wrote down and I personally have related in the past when I went through my own period of awakening slash crisis and now upgrading. So one of them was you know, not enjoying doing what doing and feeling the unrealized potential and all feeling stuck or lost their mojo? What made an impression because I hadn't thought of it earlier, you said that it happened suddenly. And I was trying to think is it really that suddenly couldn't be that suddenly and I can't remember, you know, it was not overnight, but it happened over a short period of maybe a few months? A couple of months. I don't know it happened fairly quickly. So it's something that I realised also, now that it happened more suddenly that I thought it would have happened. I still haven't you know, identified. So I will say this situation that we find ourselves in, I think what's important is really to take steps to overcome it to step out or to upgrade rather than going deep into a crisis and you know, getting the convertible as you were saying and so I know that you have some steps in a programme that you help your clients to upgrades and midlife. So do you want to first of all give me an overview of those five steps so we can get in a bird's eye view of it and then we can discuss in more detail. One or maybe more of them?

Anna Urnova 18:30

Yeah, absolutely. Well, first of all, I would say even though the signs are quite common, what's important is is the message I would like to share with your audience that it's not normal to it's just not normal in a way that it does it doesn't mean that now this is how your rest of the life should be and you should just sit alone except that youth is gone. And basically that's the way you just have to suffer and self sacrifice because believe me a lot of men believe that's the way they believe that's the way they believe that okay, well now it's just kind of downhill from here I literally get a get comments and messages Yeah, it's all downhill from here right. And guys, this is just too early to be downhill from here so and I believe that the first thing is to accept this is common but then see it as an opportunity right see it as an opportunity. Another thing is like a lot of guys do and what you said as when they stuck out because what happens men lose sight they lose sense of direction they lose clarity and and to a man This means law, often loss of energy. These two things are very connected for men because how? Let's say okay, I'm generalising here but let's say there's masculine there's a feminine energy and generally if you're a man that the masculine energy will be dominated especially if that my clients mostly they come they ambitious the criteria that the overachiever often right and then kind of Pace Setter type guys, when they lose clarity and sense of direction, it's like the whole world is falling apart from them. Yeah. So that's why I believe the first step is the most important for men, it's to regain purpose. So regain the sense of direction, because once that happens, boom, the rest kind of dominoes fall into place, not automatically still need some work done. But I believe this is really important. And here, of course, I have a danger of using this word purpose, which is overused and which is such a cliche. And a lot of people are using this word but and I have to say, when men men and men know that they often tell me, I'm trying to find my purpose, but they are looking in all the wrong places. One thing they try to think into their purpose, they basically tries, you know, like, it reminds me like, for instance, in corporate, I spent my time in corporate before I was a coach, we constantly had this meetings where we would create this mission statements, you know, and then the agent that we hired agents, and they polish this mission statements. So they kind of look good, and all of our stakeholder groups would approve, you know, and kind of it would look on paper, and men kind of strive to try to do something like that they tried to define the brand, they tried to put the mission statement, and they tried to put things like I don't know, climate change and sustainability on there some words that they feel will be like, you know, in fashion right now, right. So that that's, that's one direction, another direction. They try to seek look around who's doing something that kind of pays well, but also looks like more fun. And they try to kind of copy paste or, okay, it seems like everybody is a coach now. So I'm a coach now, or everybody's writing in the book now. So I'm, and they kind of try and do that. And I'm saying so fine. The only reason I'm saying it's not the right way is because in my system, when you on the right purpose, the number one sign is that your energy comes back online, you're naturally intrinsically energised. And the best way I can describe it as how my clients do when they on purpose, it's like for instance, imagine you've just had a hard day at work, and you're on your couch, and you don't want to see anyone and you only can maybe browse you know, channels on TV or something on not even that. So when your purpose comes online, and then suddenly you get a call or you have an idea that has something to do with your purpose. And what a lot of men say suddenly they feel energised, or like jump off the couch, or they you know, take a notepad or they take their phone and stuff. And suddenly it's like a door opens, I'm exhausted, I'm tired, and I'm energised. At the same time, I think it's not the only example of being on purpose, but it's one this purpose is a lot deeper than just your mind trying to put a nice mission statement together. Purpose is how users say naturally wired to serve the world to share your skills, talents, gifts with the world, right? I mean, I know it's big phrases, everything but it has a very practical, practical implication somebody may be wired to be a writer and influence the world through words and ideas. But if another man will start copying him, it's not going to energise him, he will be feeling like again trapped and having to write Yes, or imposter syndrome or some or let's say even sustainability, climate change, of course, we will have to be involved in you know, dealing with the mess that we all created as humankind, you're on the planet, but every man has his own way, his own purpose on how he will be involved, right? Again, some may be more of a guide, some may be a problem solver, another guy, you know, maybe write about it, and so on another guy may be having a you know, very, you know, have to work with very technical engineering something technical side of it. So what I'm saying is that the, the first step is to really find why you here so to say and what it is that you want to share with the world and how Yeah, because that will define the, the direction let's say the Northstar of how the the rest of your career and life will develop for you. Right. So that's really the first step and I find that for majority of mid career men once they get this purpose clear, really clear and it's not just connected to the you know, looks good on paper and kind of feels nice when you say it. It energises them makes them wake up feeling Hey, I'm doing that today again, thank God, you know,

Agi Keramidas 25:05

the word that comes to my mind is enthusiasm. Enthusiasm during used. Exactly. Yeah. So absolutely yes, that is I think it's almost

Anna Urnova 25:17

feels a little bit childlike, not childish, not childish, but almost childlike kind of you remember when we were children and there was a new play and we couldn't wait to wake up and it's like going to bed was such an interruption to what we were meant to be doing. That's kind of how it felt.

Agi Keramidas 25:38

Absolutely. And I will only add this with the purpose that you trying to find it or look for it is really not in my experience how it works at all, because it's not somewhere waiting to be found. It's something that you create, with your actions with your everything that that you do like you, like you compose a song course, that's how you a purpose goes from me. Yeah, let's get, let's get an overview of the other four. So one was the birth canal Foundation, of course, and I'm glad you expanded on it. But let's get an overview of the other four, and then look into one more of them in more detail, because we won't have time to go through five.

Anna Urnova 26:35

So a lot of so once you found purpose, which is your right, it's it actually has to do with your connecting to your internal internal gifts, your the way how your energy works, and what you really enjoy sharing and doing in the world the most. Right, so it starts from within, and then already I, for instance, help guys to see how it could actually show up in the real world. So to say, right? And once the purpose is clear, they know okay, well, I'd love to be doing this for the rest of my career and maybe life right, then the second step is important because a lot of guys, they actually wouldn't even give themselves permission to explore the purpose because they feel that that would mean for instance, let's say they would decide that they want to be become a coach or run their own business. They believe that they don't have the skill sets and experiences needed for that. So a lot of guys actually believe, Oh, they go through the process like that, Oh, I'd love to do this. But you need a degree for that. So I won't be doing this, either, I'd love to do this. But for this, I don't have the relevant experiences. So they kind of cut the process of reconnecting to what they really want to be doing here, by deciding they do not have the right skill set. So that's why the second step is very important. We actually claim what I call claiming your gifts. So then purpose, you find your purpose, you get on purpose, then you claim your gifts, then the third thing we start to do, and you mentioned that already, it's about acting right. So then we start already, what I say shifting into the new identity, we create a new identity of who you really want to become and we start shifting into that. It's maybe easier said than done. But what it means that, yeah, what that actually means is that instead of kind of ideating and thinking, well, for instance, let's say how can I let's say you want to become a writer, right? And instead of sitting there and ideating, about your book, and how you're going to write this best seller, we actually find an opportunity here today right now how you already can start being arrived here. Because guess what, you will never have a best seller until you until you already become a writer, right? You do not become a writer after you have a bestseller. It's the other way around. So we actually find a ways and one of the ways it would be for instance for you maybe to already start publishing articles writing chapters of your book and publish them as articles on LinkedIn, for instance, or other other resources. So you already become a published author. And then you connect to other that's we go to the next shift. So then you connect to the world of the right and you become the writer before you actually have your best seller published. Yeah, because what I'm saying and what we see that when you sit in the cubicle, for instance, and you're logistics manager, there's no way you will write a best seller like that. Being a logistics manager you need to find and you how you already how you already know how you write it, you still will be a logistics manager, but you will also start growing this identity by acting as a writer as on what the writers do. They write what they do as well they publish, what else do they do? They engage with the audience, right? They get feedback, they write more and so on. So that's it. Basically, the third shift and the most important way we, you develop the new identity and you start shifting. First it's trials, it's trial shift is, for instance, let's say, I would like to be, I don't know, a movie star. So maybe coming on your podcasts and trying to at least speak into a camera would be a good, nice first step. Because if I've never faced a camera in my life, right, and then I always dream to be a Hollywood star, that gap is so wide, I will never get there. So the third step is very important is that identity starts shifting, so that you start trying these identities and new suit. And you get more and more comfortable to the point that at some point, you say, You know what, I'm going to wear it now. 24/7 by by the other one by by the auditor. So that's the third step. Then comes the fourth step, which is also important. I know I mentioned it a little bit. This is about using the net shifting your networks, right? Because guess what, writers, they have different networks to let's say, a logistics manager, head of logistics, right? If you write your networks come from other writers and publishers and editors and promoters and audience, right. Your professional network semis. Yeah, so you and it's very important to shift those because if you let's say logistics director, who's trying to be arrived, I'm giving like a bit of extreme example, but it happens actually, it happens. And I personally help men do this transition. But you then go every time to logistics conferences, and then you talk about you being a writer, they will look at you as an ugly duckling. It's like, Who are you here? Why are you here? What are you doing? You're crazy, right? We are here. We're discussing logistics. We're not talking about publishing a book, right? The worlds are different. So you got to you know, how you say you become the sum of five people, you know, right? Up

Agi Keramidas 31:54

to the average? Yeah, absolutely. Makes sense. Yeah, around people that will support what you're doing next, rather than blocking you from

Anna Urnova 32:05

they already on the other side. And what's important for them, it's normal, the world that you're aspiring to enter is their world. It's normal for them. It's like the ugly duckling when he met the swans, they never knew they were ugly, right? They will live the world of swans it was normal for them. Same here. If you start mixing with other writers, you realise it's normal to write it's normal to I don't know, attend writers conference or something, right? It's normal to meet with your audience and Oh, go go on. I don't know, the trips, where you promote your books or something like that, right? So that's very important, because actually, people underestimate people know, now networks are important, but they don't underestimate the risk of bringing your new identity when it's still very young, very new, very fresh, very roar to the wrong audience. And the wrong audiences actually, or the wrong network is the network that know you in the old identity. Often, that's where you will face face rejection. And often there's actually the closest people to you, it may be your family members who say, Are you completely crazy? Are you out of your mind? Because they are so invested. They care for you. They don't want to you to fail, and they're so invested in who you were so far, right? That they find it hard to imagine, for you to be successful in that new world new identity. That's why it's really critical. It's even more critical than maybe previous steps, but not to look for validation from the wrong networks, but seek the network's right away for whom the worldview you want to create is normal. It's already the lead. Yeah, like, you probably have

Agi Keramidas 33:54

never had a podcast. Yes. And the fifth one, and

Anna Urnova 33:58

the fifth one is you got to act, you got to act rather than think about it. And for that, you need to seek help. I found that the biggest block for men actually, it's not the same for women here they are very different is that men somehow have a belief that they need to figure it all out on their own. Yes. And they have maybe even shame or guilt seeking help and appearing vulnerable to the to others. Right. And they somehow blamed themselves that they haven't figured it all out. But men need to find external help, because when they find external help, it's already by the way, action. They already even by going out and seeking someone to say, You know what, I want a career change. That's what I told you before my story and how men came to me when we were working on something else in coaching and they would be like, You know what I really want I want to change my career. I want to pivot I want to you know, have another role. I want to have my own business and often how was the First person they've ever articulated that to. And by articulating that, they actually heard themselves saying, that's what I really want. It got out there. And they asked me for help. And even if I, I try my best to help, even if I wasn't the right help, I would refer them for, you know, further, find another help. And that's how by actually saying, that's what I want, please help me that when a man starts acting, finding the right resources, right help. And that's when things started happening in the real world, rather than just in your head, nothing. Nothing ever. Nothing ever happens if it's just in the head, right. So that these are the five steps. So from purpose, claim your gifts, shift their identity, use the right networks, utilise the right networks, and seek help start acting.

Agi Keramidas 35:55

Thank you. It's like the, you know how one leads to the other in some way. And I believe you have a master class that you discuss these things in more detail. And so where will you send the audience to? Listen to that or watch it?

Anna Urnova 36:15

Yeah, thanks again. Well, the easiest way to remember it's just my name on our nova.com If you go there, you will see free training. You can even do our No no.com/free training, which is my masterclass. It's also if you go and find me on LinkedIn, you will see the link to my masterclass there. And I'm trying to promote it the best I can, it's completely free. And it's 45 minutes where I try to condense everything starting from symptoms and sign that you need to recognise, then explaining the five shifts in detail. And then it's very important. I also give examples of the real clients, real men who are stuck and how they use the five steps and very different creating very different change and pivots in their careers. Yeah, so it's actually very, very practical and you can use it but if not, you can also connect to me and ask questions because I also provide certain number of free consultations and where if you for instance stuck How can I apply this five sheets to me my situation doesn't seem to be correct, then I can help you look and see if it can be applied and how Yeah, so that's also available there.

Agi Keramidas 37:20

Thank you that's it is you know, there are so many things that I could personally share because I really understood so many things have gone to so being a man who has gone through and still on it because I don't I don't think it's ends and at some point there is it is a it is ongoing. So thank you for all this very useful things you shared with us today. And I have two final questions with quick questions which I always ask my guests and the first one is What does personal development mean to you?

Anna Urnova 38:03

Personal development means to me is becoming your best self let's say I believe that whoever you meant to be in this lifetime is already in you the essence is in you and it's really revealing this essence to the world right so that that's to me personal development it's not attaining goals outside of you it's really like unleashing the essence that core of you and finding a way to serve the world with it to be useful to other people in this world and create value in this world through applying your true essence.

Agi Keramidas 38:39

Great answer and if you hypothetically speaking if you could go back in time and meet your 18 year old self what's one piece of advice you would give her

Anna Urnova 38:50

Oh girl 18 year old self that's a great question How have find a good coach is not just necessarily coach it could be a mentor to be in your corner I there was an emptiness in my corner and there was a lot of shyness and fear I had back then and that created a lot of stuckness I'm not complaining but there was some so I believe it's really important to have not just one person to create like a create like your personal coaching and mentoring team people who are in your corner will be cheering you on giving your feedback honest feedback helping you Yeah, I would I would I would suggest look for mentor and also be happy trust the tap being happy. I was happy. But I often felt guilty for being like happy not being maybe businesslike enough or something like that. Not working hard enough. I'd say like a little bit chill and you have the right to be happy that probably the two messages I would give my 18 year old self.

Agi Keramidas 39:57

Thank you. Thank you for this conversation I'm wishing you all the best to carry on helping your men. The clients overcome this midlife crisis upgrade awakening we used many words for this I will leave it to you for your last parting words and maybe some action that the listener can take just now after finishing listening to this, or what's one next steps they could take to progress that upgrade? Yeah,

Anna Urnova 40:39

well first recognise, it's an upgrade opportunity. Okay, so we are made we are meaning makers as humans and when we don't see meaning into what's happening, we kind of spiral down. So my message if you find somehow yourself stuck losing meaning in life, and that affects your energy, ask yourself What if this is a signal for me? What is the this is the opportunity and there is a bigger meaning you know, and there's something bigger available to me even this thought kind of sets you to look for this opportunity rather than you know, go into victim mode right? Which is nothing ever good happens when you're in a victim mode, right? And if you see opportunity, I would literally say Auggie asking for help. I think it's number one thing it doesn't matter even if you ask the wrong person, they will refer you on and on. What I'm saying with with asking for help what happens we send out the signal out there into the world I want change I am worthy of more I know there's more available to me. So if there's little voice saying there is more available to you, it means there is more available to you. So ask for it. Ask for help seek it ask for guidance, push doors right and of course I mean there's always my side and you can do my masterclass if that would be your first step I would I would love it for you. But any help any any articulation that you want more is already will set you on the right on the right on the right path. Never Settle. Never settle for less than you feel you're you're meant to have endure in this lifetime.

Agi Keramidas 42:18

And before I end today's episode, if you enjoy this podcast, can you think of one person that would find it useful and share it with them? I'd really appreciate it it helps the show grow and you also add value to people you care about. Thank you. And until next time, stand out don't fit in!