What if reaching your life's biggest milestones doesn't bring the joy you expected?
Tune in to hear Danielle Mcgeough, a certified elite life coach, professor, and podcast host, as she recounts the pivotal night when she found herself wide awake at 3 am, despite having achieved her dream job and personal goals. Through her compelling personal narrative, Danielle shares how this moment of profound unease led her on a transformative journey into mindful planning, holistic goal-setting, and the art of balancing ambition with personal fulfillment.
In this conversation, Danielle introduces us to the concept of decorative planning as a method to manage anxiety and enrich daily life. She offers unique insights drawn from her academic research on storytelling and identity, demonstrating how mindful planning can help you craft a life that's not just successful, but deeply satisfying.
Whether you're a high-achieving professional or a busy parent, Danielle's actionable strategies will inspire you to rethink your approach to time management and personal development. Don't miss this episode!
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05:03 - Decorative Planning for Anxiety Management
11:43 - Approach to Effective Planning Strategies
15:16 - Prioritising Daily Top Three Goals
23:28 - Incorporate Playfulness and Creativity into Planning
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"Let that perfectionism go and do it messy!"
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https://boldbalancedwomen.com/
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I am Agi Keramidas, a podcaster, knowledge broker, and mentor. My mission is to inspire you to take action towards a purposeful and fulfilling life.
Get a free copy of my book "88 Actionable Insights For Life":
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I am Agi Keramidas, a podcaster, knowledge broker, and mentor.
My mission is to inspire you to take action towards a purposeful and fulfilling life.
Get a free copy of my book "88 Actionable Insights For Life":
https://agikeramidas.com/88
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
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Please note that while an effort is made to provide an accurate transcription, errors and omissions may be present. No part of this transcription can be referenced or reproduced without permission.
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Danielle Mcgeough 0:00
As you're making your to-do list, remember that you can also create a to-be list. Go ahead and think how do I want to be in the meeting that I have to go to today? How do I want to be when I show up to dinner tonight? Don't stop at a to-do list, get really serious and playful about your to-be list.
Agi Keramidas 0:24
You're listening to personal development mastery, the podcast that empowers you with a simple and consistent actions to take that will help you create a life of purpose and fulfillment. I'm your host, Agi Keramidas. And this is episode 420. Are you tired of feeling overwhelmed despite your professional success, and yearning for a balanced fulfilling life. By listening to today's conversation, you will discover how to embrace mindful planning and holistic goal setting. You will also learn practical strategies for balanced living, and also how to incorporate playfulness and creativity into planning your schedule and your goals. Whether you are a high achieving professional or a busy parent, my guests actionable strategies today will inspire you to rethink your approach to time management. Before we dive in, if you enjoy listening and appreciate what we'll do in the quick favor I'm asking of you is to click the subscribe button. Now let's get started.
Agi Keramidas 1:43
Today, it is my pleasure to speak with Danielle Mcgeough, Danielle, you are a certified elite life coach, Professor, podcast host and mom. You call yourself a planner, addict and recovering overachiever. You're passionate about helping high achieving working moms to be as ambitious about their personal lives as they are about their careers, enabling them to be bold at work while having fun and fulfillment at home. Danielle, I am delighted to speak with you today.
Danielle Mcgeough 2:18
I'm delighted to be here. Thanks for having me.
Agi Keramidas 2:21
It's I'm excited for this conversation and we will explore I will really try to capture it in something that I read when I was preparing for this. So the thing that I would like to explore with you today is taking a mindful approach to planning as you say in the holistic approach to goal setting, and I like very much this concept. And before we go there, I would like to hear a little bit about you know, your background, in particular, what is relevant to this conversation and I read was reading that. At 35, you had a major sift with something that you achieved, but yet it did not feel how you thought that you would feel. So I would like to hear more about that. What happened during the transition? And what what led to afterwards?
Danielle Mcgeough 3:20
Yeah, so, you know, rewind about eight years. And, you know, I think about one particular night, it was probably three in the morning and I was wide awake. I don't know, if you've ever found yourself up in the middle of the night, your brains just turning, you know, you're thinking about your To Do lists what you could have said should have said the day before, and you know that that used to be me every single night, you know, I'd be up the anxiety would be turning and you know, at this particular time, like you said I was probably around 35 And I just had my first kiddo, which I was really excited about. We tried to get pregnant for a long time and it finally happened. I was pregnant with my second kiddo. And I just earned tenure. So I'm a professor at the University of Northern Iowa. And I have my dream job in a lot of ways. You know, so I had been working on the school really my entire adult life. I was probably 20 When I decided I wanted to work in higher ed. And so you know, I did all the things I got the master's degree, I got the PhD I, you know, went on the job market, got a job and like earned tenure. And rather than feeling rather than feeling elated, I maybe felt relief but like I just I felt flat and overwhelmed at the same time. And so here I was like sitting up, you know, in the middle of the night and I had pulled out a planner and some stickers. I was like surrounded by stickers because a student had done a presentation and one of my courses about decorative planning as a way to help manage your anxiety. So, you know, when she would sit down and plan our weeks and make her to do lists and things like that she'd feel really, really anxious. So her therapist had recommended to her, like, decorate it, put stickers on it, and I was like, ah, stickers, I can do that. And so, you know, I was doing this, but I was also like, this is kind of dumb, it's three in the morning, and I'm putting stickers on. And, you know, it was one of those moments, though, where you kind of feel silly, and you don't really know where it's going. But it ended up being a really profound moment for me, that led me on this path of researching, you know, time management and goal setting and personal development. And, and I've been studying identity in my, in my professor work, so I study storytelling and identity, and how people perform identity on a daily basis. And now I was really thinking through it from a different perspective of like, what does a identity based approach to goal setting look like? And what is the role of, you know, mindful planning, combined with this identity based goal setting? And how can that help us create the lives that we want to live, that are rich and fulfilling. And so, you know, here I am, you know, how many years later and I know of two kiddos. And I've taken on different leadership roles at the university, I, you know, have a business in a podcast, and I'm probably doing more than I've ever done. And yet, like, I have loads of energy, I'm excited, I don't feel flat at all, I have direction. And, you know, I'm able to shut off work at the end of the night, too, and just be present with my family. And we have wild adventures. So let's get
Agi Keramidas 6:57
right to here and from this different perspective that you have before, and now there was a phrase that I read that you used, and I would really like to expand on that, because I think it will help us to you know, as as lovely and wonderful it is to hear your part of the story for someone who listens now that wants to implement, you know, a similar sift without having to find themselves at three o'clock in the morning, or have burned out or, you know, before it's in that point, I think it is, you're gonna be useful to find out how they can do something like that. So the the phrase that I really liked the you said that you were tired of trying harder, and you were ready to try easier. And I think in this short phrase, there is a lot of wisdom contained. And I would like to hear what you think about this, mostly about the trying easier, because I think the trying harder. Most of us certainly the overachievers among us. They know very well, what that involves, but please give me an overview of this concept.
Danielle Mcgeough 8:31
You know, I actually came up with this phrase of trying easier while talking with a friend actually, I think she Angela, my friend, Angela came up with it. And we were like, Oh, I'm just like, so tired of trying harder and striving and striving. And I think that one thing that's a little bit counter intuitive is that when we put into practices that sometimes sound harder, right? Like, oh, taking time to reflect, taking time to plan my week, having clear goals, breaking those down. It sounds like more work. In fact, like I didn't want to set goals, I was so resistant to it for a while because I was like, I don't want to add pressure to my already pressure for life. But like what's counterintuitive about this, is that when we take up and prioritize healthy practices, it actually makes everything easier. And so one thing, a question that I really, really love to ask myself on a regular basis is what would this look like if it were easy? And you know, if there was one thing that I could do, that would make everything else easier? What would that same be? And you know, sometimes those things are deceptively simple. It's, I'm going to sleep. Right? I'm going to feel my body with things that support my focus and concentration. I'm going to take a little bit of time to relax and meditate and journal and connect with my Self. And so what I think is really interesting is, many of us resist those things because we don't feel like we have the time to or the energy to, or whatever, because that feels, you know, harder. But it's actually what allows us to try easier. And I think that taking a dull, awesome, like a delightful approach to life where like, you can set the light for goals, you can set goals to put stickers in your planner. And, you know, how do you how do you just have fun with some of this stuff. And all sorts of things started to unlock, and it really does feel easier.
Agi Keramidas 10:47
If you enjoy this episode, can you think of one person that would find it useful and share it with them, I'd really appreciate it, it helps the show grow. And you will also be adding value to people you care about. Thank you. And now let's get back to the episode.
Agi Keramidas 11:05
Tell me then a bit more. Because I want to hear something even more specific than that in terms of, let's say planning? And yes. Can you tell me something that you maybe a practice or a way of planning? And what kind of term are we looking at when we plan like that? And we're looking at weekly, daily, or annually, all all of them in different intervals? So if you can give me a little bit of the way that you I know it is what you do. So I'm interested to hear your approach to planning. How do you plan on how do you teach your clients to plan that's probably more important.
Danielle Mcgeough 11:54
Yeah. So I think that the very first stage for me I call planning for clarity. And the reason for that is how do we set foundational practices around planning that also our personal development. So rather than thinking about scheduling, you know, to do lists calendaring, as time management, I really think about planning as personal development. And the first step to that is setting up what I call a rise ritual. And what that cooperates is reflection, intentional planning, sensory activation, and embodying your new story. And so one of the things that I think is so important is reflecting, because when we think about planning, it's very future oriented. It's like, what am I going to do? But I really think that you need to engage in some reflection that goes, you know, like, what's working? What's not working, you know, what would this look like if it were easy? And that those reflections, hope you show up in the future the way that you want to? And then, of course, you know, there are some just actual planning skills, which I really like to have daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, and yearly practices. But you know, on a daily basis, one of the first things that I would recommend that people start with is just having a daily top three. And the way that I think about this is pretty simple. It only takes about five minutes is if there were three things at the end of the day that if you did you would feel satisfied, you would feel content, you would feel good about things, what would those three things be? And what that allows you to do is practice prioritization, because I think that so many of us have been so inundated with choice that we prioritizations a struggle. And when we're in cycles of busyness and overwhelm, and being scattered, we also don't we lose sight of what we like, you know, and so, when you do that, but then to recognize it, that is data that you're collecting on yourself. So do that for about two weeks. And then look, are there trends and patterns in your daily top three? And you know, if an alien came down and found your daily top three, what would they say your priorities were? You know, and what, what are you doing, like, for example, like what I'll find a lot of times with people is they'll be like, Oh, my health, I'm going to work on exercise. So they put on their daily top three, and then they never do it. Well what's going on there? Like what do you either need to change so that you are prioritizing your priorities? Or maybe This isn't the season this year. And you need to get real with yourself and honest with yourself that this actually isn't your priority right now. And that doesn't mean that it can't be in the future. And that can be really hard sometimes is to get honest with yourself about about these things.
Agi Keramidas 15:18
Indeed, and you know, the question that you said to ask everyday, what are my top three priorities? Just by asking this question every day, that is a great opportunity for reflection, because you come up with answers, and then of course, prioritizing them and doing them and then reflect in also, I think, how whether you've done them or not, and looking back at regular time, so thank you for that. There was another thing you said you mentioned, if I got it correctly, you have some human you said they arise ritual, is that how you said I did with I like very much. You know, immediately when you say that, the more probably common phrase that we use for the same thing is morning routine. Yours sounds a little bit different. So tell me first of all, how I like because the the word routine and the word ritual have a different energy to them. So I like the word ritual. So tell me a little bit more about that a bit.
Danielle Mcgeough 16:32
So this is a little bit of my so I have a graduate minor in anthropology. And I think you feel a little bit of that Anthro nerd out here. So I really like to distinguish between routines and rituals, and habits and practices. And the way that I sort of see it is that one, when you have a habit, for example, it is supposed to be done over time, so that it becomes unconscious. And that's awesome. We don't want to like to have to be super conscious about everything all the time would be exhausting. And so habits are really you know, they're automized, they're automatic. But the difference between a habit and a practice than is that a practice is something that you do over and over again, but you want to remain mindful with it. And then a routine is basically habit stacked, and a ritual is practices stacked. And so one of the biggest differences between a routine and a ritual is that a ritual asks you to remain present and mindful for it. And so I always joke that, like, I want my dishes to be a routine, I don't really want to be that mindful. But when I'm doing my planning practices, or thinking about my priorities, or scheduling my time, I want to stay present and mindful for that. And then the other thing is, is a ritual is transformative. Original transforms us from one state to another. So we might think about like marriage as a ritual, right? We have these ceremonial rituals. And throughout different cultures, they transform us, you go into a marriage ceremony, single, you end married, partnered, right. And so the idea is that a ritual should also shift you from one state to another. And so that's part of what I hope people do is go okay, where are you starting? What's the state that you're starting in? And how do you want to shift that state by the end? And that's also what really transforms our planning practice is from time management and time management hacks to actual personal development and growth.
Agi Keramidas 18:56
You talked about the ritual, US mindful. And I really like that. And, you know, for me, you said that there was a an anthropology major and for me, what is I find fascinating personally, is the words that we use the language and how it changed in one world with a very similar meaning can completely change how we perceive something. Sure. I think if someone is struggling to do my morning routine, one thing they could try to do is look at it as a morning ritual instead, because even the changing the work will lead to a different perception of what what it entails. But thank you for this answer. It was very useful, I believe, and there was something else that you mentioned very quickly, but I wanted to come back and ask you more. During the rise ritual you mentioned embodying your new story is not affirmations is what what, how is embodying your new story? How do you practices or teach it?
Danielle Mcgeough 20:12
Yeah, so I think that stories are so important. The stories that we tell ourselves about ourselves the stories that we tell others about ourselves, the stories about that we tell about others that are infused into our own sense of self. And so one of the things that I really hope people do is once you've decided this is the transformation that I want to enact. Right? I want to move from this state to a next, how do we rewrite a story about who we are and how we show up? And, you know, we might think about this in terms of, you know, Dr. Benjamin Hardy, has some work called be your future self. Now, how do you write a story or create a vision of who your future self is? And get really, really clear about that? But then, you know, for me, part of it is, what does it look like to embody that? And it's not to just tell ourselves that story. But what does that look like in practice today? And so really, part of this is, how do we move it from an idea to an action. And we might even connect that with, you know, James clears work on like atomic habits and his identity based approach to habits where, you know, it's not that you write it, so you want to be a writer? And what are the practices and the habits and the routines and rituals that a writer takes on. And so a lot of this is, you know, getting really clear about our own stories, and then translating those stories into something that we tell us something that we do,
Agi Keramidas 21:55
how do you go from getting clear on them to embodying them, because onboarding is something different, it's way much more than being clear on it. So any, any tip on how to actually embody them? Once you're clear? Let's say you're clear with them? Yeah,
Danielle Mcgeough 22:14
I think that that's where planning is so important, because it's saying, Okay, what is one thing I can do today? 10 Act, my future self. Now, what is one thing that I can do, in the way that I show up to work in the way that I talk with my kids? And, you know, in my own commitment to actually doing my daily top three, right, and so some of it is translating that story. And so what happens in your planner, what happens on your calendar, and what you actually are doing? And so, you know, I do think that that's where a lot of us get hung up? Is this shift from the stories that we tell to like what we're actually doing? And so, you know, I think that there's a lot of different barriers that come between those things. But a lot of it really is for me, how do we map that story now, onto your daily calendar, and the actions that you're doing and how you're spending your time we vote with our time? How are you voting?
Agi Keramidas 23:26
Let me ask you something else. What role will you have been talking about, you know, planning, maybe not so much about goal setting, but I suppose some of the principles are very similar. But in planning, what role does it play? Playfulness, creativity, fun, all those things? How, what role do they play in? How can one incorporate more of those into you know, the practice or the ritual? Yeah,
Danielle Mcgeough 24:06
so I love that question. I was just in conversation with someone yesterday, we were talking about how, you know, if you're like, Oh, I do strategic planning, or I'm a goal setter, I, you know, high performer people think that you're really, really rigid, and that you are super, super serious. We're talking about how like, we're actually incredibly goofy people. And you know, it's funny because we both had, you know, who I was chatting with, we both had backgrounds in theater, and there's so much play in there. And what's really interesting is that that play has to be that play is purposeful. You don't always necessarily give it a purpose when you do it. But the play is purposeful. Because eventually you know, in theater, you do have to have a show that goes up at a certain time and there's an audience it's like waiting on you. So, you know, you got to be thoughtful, and you have to deliver. But also you recognize that that play does something. And so you know, when it comes to planning, one, I truly believe this sort of there's freedom and discipline idea that when we have a plan, it actually opens up space for play. But I also think that we can plan to play and that there can be a playful element to it. Because, you know, for me, I'm more likely to do anything if I make it fun. So, you know, put stickers in your planner, right with a really flippin nice pin, you know, make it delightful. And like, so that's always a question that I like to ask people is like, all right, you got to clean your house, how are we going to make it delightful on a pump some jams, I'm gonna dance around with my kids, I'm going to we're going to turn this into a competition, who can get this cleaned up the fastest? You know, like, there are ways that actually making it fun making it delightful incorporating play into the things that feel like, feel like the rigidity is so important. But I also think that when we have clear plans, it actually opens up space for spontaneity.
Agi Keramidas 26:23
And all that brings me reminds me of what you were saying earlier about the mindful being mindful of what is happening because when you're doing that you are sensing, it's a great way to be present in the in the moment of what is going on, rather than traveling mentally elsewhere. That's great, Diane, thank you very much. I have before I start wrapping up this conversation. The first thing I want to ask you is where will you direct a listener that has enjoyed listening to this today and wants to find out more?
Danielle Mcgeough 27:08
Yeah, you can listen to me geek out a lot more about planning and goal setting. On the podcast plan goal plan. If you are interested as well, I have a free mini audio course called Bold and balanced. And you can find that at Bold, balanced women.com. And it will basically walk you through a mindful delightful way to delete delegate and automate so that you can free up some time so that you can then you know, have time to do your planning practices and create that ritual. And so go get it.
Agi Keramidas 27:45
That's great. And I have two quick questions that I always ask my guests, Danielle. And the first one is What does personal development mean to you?
Danielle Mcgeough 27:59
You know, for me, I just really truly believe that as humans, we are here to live full, wonderful lives and that we are constantly evolving. So either you can be mindful about that personal development and how you evolve, or you can just let it happen to you. But you know, it's gonna happen. And so, um, you know, I think that personal development to me really means taking a proactive approach to the way that we evolved throughout our lives.
Agi Keramidas 28:29
Okay, dancer, and hypothetical question. If you could go back in time and meet your 18 year old self. What's one piece of advice you would give her?
Danielle Mcgeough 28:41
Do it messy? I think I would just you know, let that perfectionism go and do it messy.
Agi Keramidas 28:51
That's great. Danielle, I want to thank you very much for this conversation. We had you know, I will. We said before we started recording, you measure the phrase jamming out so have remember it in now and I enjoyed jamming out with you in this conversation. I want to wish you all the very best with your both your personal and your professional life. And I will leave it to you for some actionable parting wisdom for the listener that has listened so far. today.
Danielle Mcgeough 29:36
Yeah, I would say that, you know, as you're making your to do list, remember that you can also create a to be list. And so, you know, go ahead and think you know, how do I want to be in the meeting that I have to go to today? How do I want to be when I show up to dinner tonight and you know things feel a little bit rushed before we start the kids The next activity so, you know, don't stop at a to do list get really serious and playful about your to be list.
Agi Keramidas 30:12
And before I end today's episode, if you enjoy this podcast, can you think of one person that would find it useful and share it with them? I'd really appreciate it. It helps the show grow and you give value to people you care about. Thank you. And until next time, stand out don't fit in!