#448 Why chasing likes and followers is toxic, the dark side of influencer culture, and your path to digital entrepreneurship, with Jet van Wijk.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

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Jet van Wijk 0:00
Do you think that you were created by a god or multiple gods, or the universe, whatever you believe in? Do you think your Creator made you to sit in a job that you genuinely don't like until you retire? Do you think you were made this special of a person to live an unfulfilled life?

Agi Keramidas 0:23
You are listening to personal development mastery, the podcast that equips you with the simple and consistent actions that will help you create a life of purpose and fulfillment. I'm your host, Agi Keramidas, and this is episode 448 Are you tired of the nine to five grind and curious about how to turn your passion into a fulfilling online business, then this episode is for you. As you listen to today's conversation, you will discover actionable advice for starting and growing an online business that offers freedom freedom of place, freedom of time and freedom of money. You will also hear about the mental health implications of social media, especially within the influencer culture, and how to maintain authenticity in this digital world. So mastery seeker, if you are looking for inspiration and actionable tools on any of these topics, keep listening before we dive in. If you enjoy this podcast and appreciate what we're doing, the quick favor I'm asking of you is to click the subscribe button, as this helps us make the podcast better for you. Now, let's get started.

Agi Keramidas 1:43
Today, it is my real pleasure to speak with Jet van Wijk. Jet, you are originally from the Netherlands, and you have transformed your life from corporate monotony to entrepreneurial success. You are a seven figure entrepreneur. TEDx, speaker, author, Business Coach and an advocate for mental health. You specialize in digital marketing and online businesses, and you are passionate about helping people break free from the constraints of traditional nine to five jobs to build fulfilling, purpose driven lives through freelancing. Jet. Welcome to the show. It's such a pleasure to speak with you today.

Jet van Wijk 2:27
Thank you so much for having me, and that was one of the nicest intros I've had so far. So thank you.

Agi Keramidas 2:34
I'm glad that you appreciate the introduction. It is, I think, a short representative snapshot, as I would say, of of you. Yet today, I'm looking forward to exploring with you some different things. One of them is, you know, creating an online business as a freelance with because many people are interested in, you know, doing their own thing and breaking free from the there's a nine to five job, or whatever it is that they're doing. There is also another topic that I'm looking forward to discuss with you, which is what you talked about in your TED talk, and that is the negative effects of social media on mental health. So I think both are quite intriguing concepts, topics not necessarily related at the first glance, but let's see how we can blend both of them together and create a useful conversation for the mastery seekers who are listening right now. What I would like to begin this conversation with is, you know that pivotal moment when you decided that corporate life was not what you wanted to do, and you took some bold decisions. So take us back there. It's a very I believe it paints a picture of understanding you much so much more.

Jet van Wijk 4:08
Yeah, definitely super excited for this conversation. So, yeah, basically, I, you know, was fresh out of high school, and one of my dreams was to become a spy. So I tried to apply to the police academy in the Netherlands, but unfortunately the positions were frozen because they need to calculate that there's jobs available in five years. And unfortunately there were no jobs available. So I kind of randomly chose International Hospitality Management, and I'd actually never worked in hospitality before, so not in hotels, not in restaurants, but I had this gut feeling, and I felt like, Okay, I feel like I should choose that study because it's close to Business Administration. But I heard you could travel abroad in your third year to Bali, Bangkok, South Africa, or Doha, and that's what pulled me. And I was like, Okay, I'm going. To do this study. Then in my third year, I did actually four months in Bali and four months in Bangkok, and this is where I saw people working from their laptop. And I asked what they were doing, and they told me, yeah, they were just traveling the world working online. And this was 2017 so it was kind of still new at this time, you know, the whole concept of laptop life and working online. So from that moment, I was hooked. But because it was my third year, I kind of wanted to finish my study, you know, and get my degree. So in the last year of the study, you do an internship, and I got the pleasure to do this for Hilton Hotels in the UK, in London, and this is where I had, really that corporate experience working for, you know, really big organizations such as Hilton Hotels. I was in the HR department, you know, maybe you know some about it. But really that corporate London culture, you know, of sitting in your cubicle office, and, yeah, you know, going to the pub on Fridays, and that was like your highlight. Um, but for me, the the biggest, let's say, you kind of, I would say the situations of the office definitely played a role in me realizing how, yeah, how it was just not what I wanted. Because we were working for HR, for Hilton Hotels, but our office was located in the basement of a hotel, so it was basically an office with no windows, no natural air. And I think even in the Netherlands, this is probably not even allowed, I think, as an office condition. But I was working there, and I was already sorry to doubt, like, Is this really what I imagined? Like this, this glorious job for Hilton, which is a big company, I was imagining how I was going to climb the ladder and get promotions and, you know, work my way up the corporate dream. But then in that office, I was like, This doesn't feel right. Like this feels like literally the rhetoric, you know, like I feel so lifeless, so depressed here. And then the big, the big turning point, I would say, for me, was when I got offered a job at the end of my internship. And it was a really big promotion. It was like marketing communications, you know, person for the whole UK and Ireland, for Hilton Hotels. And I looked at my managers there and the people above me, and I just saw how overworked they were, how burnt out they were, still living in apartments in London, you know. And I was like, if I'm going to take down this road, I can keep on climbing. But it seems that, you know, I was looking into my future, and I was like, I don't think I want this looking at them and how burnt out they were and, you know, kind of unhappy in their life. And that's when I made the random decision, and I said, Okay, you know what? I think I can always go back to corporate, but I have this gut feeling I have to figure out this online thing. And I had really no clue where to start, what to do exactly, you know, but that was a moment I was like, Okay, I have a job offer here on the table, but my heart is still with those people I met a year ago in Asia. We were working and traveling the world, and my heart and my mind were still thinking, jet, what if it is possible for you? What if you could do that? And that's yeah, when I, when I made that, made that jump and decision to decline the offer, and yeah, to go out on by myself, basically.

Agi Keramidas 8:42
And I understand that you went, you went through the process and became an influencer, as we say, and then realized that this had an impact that you were not expecting. And actually, let's start with this yet. Do you want to share with us? What were, you know, the realizations that you made after you became the influence. I don't know. How many followers do you have on your you know, the big time, you know, combined. So I can get an understanding.

Jet van Wijk 9:18
I think it was not, at least, like, for my words. Now it was not that much. It was around 40k followers. Of course, I started, so I came out of corporate, moved back to Asia, and that's when I was like, Okay, I'm going to be travel blogger. And of course, yeah, that same with being an influencer, and it's kind of potato you're posting for hotels, and you know, you're getting paid to post for hotels or things like this. So I started that. I grew to 10k followers pretty quick, because again, it was 2000 maybe 2019 at this point then. So it was kind of still fresh, you know, also the influencer industry. So I was growing really quick. And then I got to around 4050, Followers, let's say at the peak of my influencer career, yeah, and at that time, you know, I was getting paid good money, and I was pretty happy with that, but I just realized how toxic it was for my mental health in terms of

Agi Keramidas 10:17
that's what I would like to ask you more about that. What you say about how toxic it was for your mental health, so please elaborate on that. Tell me exactly what to what you mean. How was it toxic? Yeah,

Jet van Wijk 10:32
I think because the success of an influencer is so much tied to getting attention and getting likes and followers, because big brands would want to work with you as long as you have a lot of comments, a lot of likes, a lot of followers. So the first thing is already that you're starting to do everything you can to get attention, which means that maybe now I know right, subconsciously you are analyzing and looking at your posts and seeing, okay, this post, it only got five likes, so I'm going to stop posting that. And this post got 100 likes, so I'm going to make more like that. And in this way, subconsciously, you start to basically cut off certain types of content, and you start to adjust towards what your followers actually like. And this is where I realized that, you know, you're completely one, changing yourself because you start to do what others want instead of what you, deep down, actually liked. And for me, how this looked like if we visualize it. I started as a travel blogger, which is someone who posts beautiful landscapes and, you know, amazing cultural experiences and tips and travel hacks, but that ended up with me being in a cute dress on a beach somewhere, because that is what people liked, and that is what people gave the most attention, whereas deep down, I started completely different, and I was, of course, also younger. I was, I guess, I just turned 20. So you know, we are more we are more perceptible to be influenced as well at this age, because our frontal lobes are not developed that far. We don't have that risk risk reference ratio yet that far developed. So, you know, we Yeah, it is easier for us to get conformed and to get influenced into doing something that maybe initially isn't actually like us and doing things that are, you know, for other people, or because it gets attention, or because it gets liked. And now imagine the attention which makes us feel good because of the endorphins and the happy hormones we get because we gotta like. Now imagine that that's linked to money as well. So more attention you get, the more money you get in that industry, which means that you're starting to do lots of things to make sure that you get more attention and then influence your industry. In general, just had a lot of dirt with it. I met a lot of influencers who were literally saying, Hey, I'm promoting this lipstick brand, but actually it smells so bad, and I don't like the color, but the next day, they would still make the post for the company to get paid, but deep down, they wouldn't recommend it to their best friends, you know. So it was just very dirty, toxic industry in general, and I feel like a lot of people don't know that before they get into it. Yeah,

Agi Keramidas 13:23
that's great to you know, to know and to share. And you know, it's only for me listening to that. It only makes me realize that you know the integrity that you come to expect from a person, or at least, I do. Not everyone has it, but regardless of that, there were two things really that I noted from what you just said, and that was the starting to subconsciously change the content that you create according to what the the audience will like, and the other was the actual liking, which you said, chasing attention, and how that drives and changes our behavior, what we post online, what we Do and so on. When did that shift for you? Yeah,

Jet van Wijk 14:24
it was actually the moment. I mean, I mean, it was two points really for me that highlighted that one was living with another influencer and seeing her literally tell me how bad it is what she has to promote, but then still promote it. And personally, I was really selecting brands that I really stood behind, but it just showed me again that this, the industry in its own, was just broken. It was just so fake, and I didn't want to be a part of that. And then the second moment was definitely when, you know, I realized that I was, I think I was laying in bed at night, and it was very late, and I. Still had to post. And it's again, this pressure that you know that if you don't post today, it means you didn't, you weren't able to get likes and followers today, so maybe less brands want to work with you. Uh, brands would only pay you if, of course, you post consistently, you get the likes and you get the followers. So I was laying in bed and I still had to post, and I knew that it wasn't just as easy as just hitting post, because if I wanted to up my likes and followers and engagement, I also had to engage with other influencers, and that was also one of those dirty things where all influencers, they comment and like each other's post to boost the algorithm. So I knew that if I posted I still had to spend at least another hour commenting on other people's posts. Like, oh so nice, babe. I love this post, because if I didn't, I wouldn't boost my post enough. And that's when I realized, like, wow, I'm posting something I don't even like. I'm just posting it because it performs really well. I'm now also fakely engaging with others in the hope that they will also engage with my posts. And obviously you keep refreshing and checking if it got likes and followers and if it didn't, you feel so bad about yourself. So that's the night when I was like, Okay, I have I want the freedom. I want to travel the world. I want to be able to work from my laptop, but I will not do it in this way.

Agi Keramidas 16:21
So tell me about then, the freelancing, and actually, what I would like to hear even more than you know, the the details of your transition to that is, let's assume someone listening right now has been thinking of doing their own thing. You know, there is this, I would like to do something online or start my own thing. As you know, many people, unfortunately, never take the step to do that and remain in the unfulfilling career. So I wanted that to be, you know, the lens through which you give me the answer of doing the online business, creating it, and some elements practically from your wisdom and experience that the listener can, you know, be Inspired by and even take action on. Why not? Yeah,

Jet van Wijk 17:24
so I always see it like this. I don't think everyone has to work online or start an online business, but what I want to highlight is, first, you and me even talking to each other. It is so special that we are able to communicate, that I'm able to go to the beach after this with my dog, I'm able to walk, I'm able to talk, I'm able to have this human experience. I wasn't I didn't come to this planet as a microphone or as a rock. I came as a human. Okay, now keep that mind frame. So do you think someone as special as me or someone as special as you or the listener. Do you think that you were created by a god or multiple gods, or the universe, whatever you believe in? Do you think your Creator made you to sit in a job that you genuinely don't like until you retire? Do you think you were made this special of a person to live an unfulfilled life, that is my first question. And then again, that doesn't mean that you have to start an online business, but it just means reflect on where you're at. Are you truly happy? Are you truly living up to your full life potential that you have because you have a human experience, and the chances of death are already so small. So you should live every day doing what you love the most and chasing the things you want to do in this life, because you know you deserve that. So that's the first frame of mind. If the answer is no, you're not living that life right now, then you can do two things. One, you could find a regular job that just fits your passions, your hobbies, your interests, your life, your schedule, already more that would already be my first you know thing to encourage. Now, the reason why I say that working online and building a business is an amazing vehicle to fulfillment is because freedom, I think for me, it's very important in terms of being able to do the things I want in this human experience. And freedom comes in three levels. So the first one is location freedom. For me, that is, I want to be able to travel the world, but also, if I have to go home to my parents tomorrow because something happened, I can go for a lot of my students, people that I work with, it is being a mom or being a dad and being able to spend more time at home with their kids, location, freedom. The second part of freedom is time freedom. So this means that you are able to make your own schedule. Few reasons for that, yes, could be kids, but it could also be that maybe, you know, I have a friend. She has ADD or ADHD, you know, she feels like she's more productive in the night, or sometimes she can't focus. Now, in a regular job, you're put in this box. You have to work these times at this condition in this way, but at least if you have your own online business, you can also adjust it in terms of maybe your health issues or maybe just the way that you are as a person, the times you prefer to work. So the second one is time freedom. Now the third one, which will come with a big note, financial freedom. Okay, what does that mean? I don't go around and I promise people, you can be financially free. Because, to be honest, this concept, it doesn't exist, because the more money you get, the more money you want. And it doesn't stop. For me, what financial freedom means is, yeah, again, being able to have those experience I want in life, that is financial freedom, not having to worry about it. And the truth is, we do live in capitalistic world. So to be able to live, we need money. That's just a fact. We can't get around that. But here's the big part, if at least you can do something you genuinely are passionate about, something you genuinely love, then guess what the time that you are working to make money, at least, will feel like less like work. Because if you truly love what you're doing, you probably know that time flies. It doesn't feel like work. You're enjoying what you're doing, and again, that brings you closer to I'm in life. I'm a human I'm doing whatever I want to do. This is my experience. So yes, we have to make money. That is correct. But I'm saying that if you can do that in a way where you have time freedom, you have location freedom, and you're making money by doing something you love, so it feels less like work. For me. That is what true success looks like. That is what being in your purpose and your fulfillment looks like. And that is why I can highly recommend working online. Now, working online is for a lot of people listening, also maybe a big question mark, a big concept, because you have 100 ways to work online, guys like there's so many options out there, and especially, again, relating back to social media, of course, as soon as you watch one of my videos, you'll probably see 10 more gurus talking about drop shipping and MLM and this that affiliate marketing. You know, it's very overwhelming. I understand that. So if you've decided you want to make a change, and that is working online, or there, the second step is what way to work online suits you the best. Now, how can you find this out asking yourself, what are my current skills and capabilities? What do I really love doing? Now, in my case, I tried after influencing, I tried MLM. I did affiliate marketing. I've been in crypto. I had a web shop, I had a blog. Literally, there's nothing I have not tried or done in the online world. I just found out. I don't know if you know this graph, and if I can say this, let's say explicit words, but you have this meme or this graph, it's like, the more you fuck around, the more you find out that is what I did. And I feel like sometimes that is needed. You need to kind of fuck around to find out, what do you actually love? What fits you? What are you good at? Well? So for me, in the end, it turned out to be that I loved being in the high ticket services space. What does that mean? I learned a skill, a marketing skill. So this could be copywriting, it could be email marketing, social media management, managing podcasts. These are all skills, skills that anyone can learn. Doesn't matter your age, doesn't matter where you come from. You can learn a skill now, when we learn this skill, we can now offer it as a service to a business online who needs your service. So there's already a demand for it. There's already businesses out there looking for copywriters, looking for podcast managers, looking for social media managers. So this is the thing I love the most, that it's based on a skill you can learn, a skill you can offer a service to a business. It's like, very straightforward, very realistic as well. And then, of course, this high ticket services business you can offer at different levels, and that is, you know, also in terms of what we do. I started out as a freelancer, so offering marketing services to businesses on my own, I got good at that, and I hire team members. So now I skilled it to an agency. Then I got really freaking good at what I did that. Now I was confident enough to start courses and coaching programs and e learning so but at all these stages, what I'm selling, what I'm offering, is high ticket. Services to businesses or people that are looking for it. And for me, that turned out to be the business model that was the most logical to me, that I do think is the most beginner friendly as well, and the most scalable once you're in it. But again, it could be that maybe drop shipping fits you better, or print on demand store or affiliate marketing, that is not something that I can tell someone. I can just speak from my experience. And in my experience, I fell in love with selling high ticket services, and especially because you can connect it to a niche that you love. You know that is, for me, the most important part, because otherwise, you're just going to make another nine to five for yourself. If you end up doing something that you don't like, that doesn't connect with you, I think it's important that you focus on, yeah, doing it in a niche and an industry that you are very passionate about. Yeah,

Agi Keramidas 25:57
thank you. And it does, of course, make sense to do something that is related to your skills, your capabilities, I would also add to that list, also to what you love doing, so not just because sometimes we are skilled at some things that we don't necessarily love doing 100% and I appreciate what You're saying that there are so many different ways, obviously you said 100 maybe it's more online business. And of course, they are all different. However, I wonder if among all of them you, there is a common challenge that people face, no matter where they go, especially, you know, before they have reached the level that they can look back and say, Okay, I've made it in this career or path or business, so in, let's say, the early stages, not not the first day, But I mean, you know, when you start to figure out how things are, start having some clients, some work. Is there, you think, any common challenge that inevitably you will face when you're going through that? Yeah,

Jet van Wijk 27:19
definitely, I would say, and it's funny, it is a bit connected to social media. Again. I think the common challenge and the main issue I see right now with people, and also people in my surroundings communities, is sticking to one thing and trying it long enough to get the result or to see a result. You know, so with all these videos and content we are seeing online right now, they might start one thing today, but then maybe in a week, they see something else, another video, and they think, Oh, that looks easier, right? Because you just started one week. So it's maybe a bit tough. Maybe you have questions, but that looks easier. Let me go to that. Oh no, let me go to this. So this is what I call, yeah, it's shiny object syndrome, right? You see other things, and you actually don't have conviction. You don't have discipline, conviction and commitment to one thing. So what my suggestion is, do research, pick one way to work online, and stick with that for at least one year, really, at least one year. Don't try anything else. And once you found a way to work online that you want to do, and you made that commitment to yourself, I'm going to try this. Then find a mentor that matches where you want to go, so that actually you successfully completed that. And then again, the second thing we're going to do is we're going to go on an information diet so you found a way to work online now. So you're going to stop watching hundreds of videos about other ways to work online. Stop it. The second thing you're going to do is you're going to choose one mentor you're going to learn from, and you're going to listen only to his or her podcast, to his or her courses, to his or her advice. You're going to tune out all the other gurus and information, because I see it like this. Let's say we're making a brownie, and I gave you my grandmother's recipe that's been in the family for years, my precious recipe, okay, I give it to you. Now, your neighbor comes and says, No, I think you should add a little bit more of this spice. And now your friend comes over, no, you should add more of this now, in the end, the recipe will be ruined. It will taste probably horrible, and you are upset because you didn't get the result that you wanted. But it's you. It's because you didn't follow the initial recipe. You started adding other information to it. So go on an information diet and focus just on learning from one mentor, one way to work online, and I believe truly that every way you can work online, you can succeed anyway. That's why I'm not disregarding any of them. But it's about having the discipline to do it longer, long enough to get good, and then it's about the discipline to do it long enough to grow it for. Further. And a lot of people, they fail because of that, because they don't have the discipline to stick to one thing and one mentor long enough to find out if obviously it works. But I believe that if someone has the success story, they made a course or program or information that traces back their steps like a recipe. So if you follow their steps, it is very, very, very, very likely you're gonna get a similar, if not the same, result. But a lot of people don't follow through long enough to find out

Agi Keramidas 30:37
yet. Thank you so much, because this answer and these two components of it, sticking long enough with something and ignoring the temptations of the next next thing, which I suppose, and I will put my hand up, because I've also fallen into the trap of this for four years before I realized that there was this could be endless. You need to stick with one thing for sure, and also what you said about, you know, finding a mentor, and the analogy you put with the recipe of the brownie, I think it it makes it very, very clear for someone to understand that when you start mixing things up, it's not necessarily going to make it better. It might, but it's unlikely. So yes, sticking with the recipe. As you said, it's a great idea. Yet, where can people find out more about you and what you do and connect with you? Yeah,

Jet van Wijk 31:41
totally. So it's very simple. My website is literally my full name.com, so yet, phoneview.com my Instagram is also yet fun week, and then with an X behind it. If you have any questions or you want to know something, you want to learn more, then feel free to send us a message there, or you could always book a free call as well, just to chat about if freelancing is for you, you know, and otherwise we can point you in the right direction, of course. And yeah, I would say, even listening to this episode, feel free to shoot me a message on what you thought about it. I'm always super happy to connect, you know, with everyone

Agi Keramidas 32:17
before i That's great. Thank you. Before I wrap up today, I have two quick questions to ask, and the first one is, what does personal development mean to you?

Jet van Wijk 32:33
For me, personal development is really the person I have to become to achieve certain goals and certain milestones. So a lot of the things I achieve now, even the TEDx talk or awards, I really look back at, okay, what did I have to become and step into in order to get there? And often that is all personal development. Is the characteristics, the mindset shifts I had to make. And I actually, I really love it. So for me, it's the person you had to become to achieve your business successes. That, for me, is personal development.

Agi Keramidas 33:10
And hypothetically, if you could go back in time and meet your teenage self, let's say 17 year old self, what's one piece of advice you would give her? It

Jet van Wijk 33:21
would be to stay authentic and to listen to your intuition. So you know, keep going and doing what you want, stand up against conformity and stay close to who you truly are, and then everything in the end will work out. Yeah,

Agi Keramidas 33:40
I like that very much, especially you use the word conformity. And you know, with social media conformity, it kind of those two words resonate with each other in my head anyway. Yet I want to thank you very much for this conversation. And I believe there were some very useful and towards the end, some practical, also elements that you shared. So I appreciate you very much for this. I want to wish you all the very best with your life and your career, and I will leave it to you for your parting wisdom.

Jet van Wijk 34:22
Yeah, no, thank you so much for having me on this podcast. Was really lovely. Conversation. Even made me think as well a little bit, you know, about things deeper, which I really love. And yeah, I would say my parting, you know, words would be to remember how special you are you deserve to design the life of your dreams and make sure that you feel and you really try to live in alignment with your purpose and what you want to do, because it this is your human experience.

Agi Keramidas 34:55
And before I leave you for now, I have one last question for you. Do you seek to master your life and live with purpose and fulfillment? I'm sure that by now you have realized that personal development is a lifelong journey, and it's great to be able to share this journey with like minded people, to support and to be supported join our free community, the mastery seekers tribe, and be a part of a growing group of people who value personal development, like you, go to masteryseekerstribe.com. Until next time. Stand Out, don't fit in!