#450 Special episode: A conversation about self–love and healing with my partner of 12 years, Thoko Madzimbamuto.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

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Agi Keramidas 0:04
In this special, unique episode, 450 I have a conversation with Thoko, my life partner of 12 years. She shares her inspiring journey of self, love and healing and the impact this has had on our relationship. If you're seeking growth in your personal relationships or healing family connections, then today's conversation offers powerful insights and practical advice for your own journey before we dive in, remember mastery seekers to go deeper into the episodes. Join us at mastery seekers tribe.com, for more. And now let's begin.

Agi Keramidas 0:52
I have interviewed over 250 people on my podcast, but today I have the immense joy of introducing the most important person in my life, my partner, my soulmate, Thoko. Thoko, for 12 years, you have been by my side, not just as a life companion, but as a fellow traveler on the journey of personal growth through the ups and downs, the challenges and triumphs you have been my unwavering support, my mirror and my teacher. Your journey is one of resilience, healing and the power of self love, and so I'm thrilled to have a podcast conversation with you and share your inspiring journey to welcome How does it feel to be here?

Thoko Madzimbamuto 1:54
Oh, thank you so much. Yeah, it just feels so unreal because I've been here, you know, from the beginning, from the spin of all the podcasts that you've had, and I think I've listened to every single episode that you have released. So it is, I am definitely honored to be, um, featuring in your podcast today and being a guest. And yeah, thank you so much for that, um introduction as well. Hey, there

Agi Keramidas 2:23
is. There are so many things that we could talk about. And now I take this, I realize that this podcast, which will be the number 450 it's, it coincides with our 12th anniversary of being together. So this is beautiful. I was about to use the word happy coincidence, but I don't think it's a coincidence at all. The only thing I will say as a preface, and I don't know if you want to give any preference to the conversation, is, out of all the things that we could discuss, the general frameworks, as I say, of what I how I have envisioned this conversation was to go through some of those, let's say, very significant events or milestones that happened along the way that have determined, you Know, not only our relationship, but also our path of of personal growth. So that's really my preface for the conversation. I don't want, I don't know if you want to add anything

Thoko Madzimbamuto 3:29
to that. No, I think it's, I think it's a good topic to to discuss. I know there's a lot of things that happened that have led to, you know, for us to be where we are now, and yeah, happy to to go with the flow.

Agi Keramidas 3:46
Right in that case, I will start with one of the earliest, shall we say, significant events of your adult life anyway, and that was when you moved from Zimbabwe to the UK. So there was there I know this story because you've told me, and it's such a touching story, and it has a very deep meaning there with when you think about it, of how things happen for us, and yeah, you moved or you you got a one way ticket from Zimbabwe to the UK without having a visa. So share that event. How? Yeah,

Thoko Madzimbamuto 4:30
so thanks so much for asking that, because I think this is something that we both have in common. I know some people that have shared or listened to your podcast, they know this is similar to your journey that you've had. And for me, this is, I think this was the beginning of many things and many realization and many changes in my life. And you know, as an 18 and a half year old, leaving everything that you know behind, leaving your family. Leaving your friends. And, you know, live in a country that I was born in and I grew up in, was scary, however exciting at the same time. And, you know, as you mentioned, I had, I didn't have a visa when I was leaving my country. You know, all I had that time was a dream. You know that this was going to be a life changing opportunity for me. And you know, I remember just, you know, having my suitcases with me. I think I had two suitcases as well, you know, in each hand and leaving, like I said, everyone behind. And that was, like I said, the beginning of my journey. You know, my life, and, you know, a change in circumstances, really, you know, I'm from Zimbabwe, and as you know, people call Zimbabwe like third world country, I'm going to use the quotation. So having finished high school, I really didn't have many prospects for me. I didn't really know where my life was going to go, but this opportunity came, and, you know, I'm so grateful for my family for helping me with this transition. And you know, as you sharing what we fast forward a little bit when I actually arrived at the airport, and like says, an 18 year old, really young, which is a dream of a different life and a better life. And I think that was the beginning of just knowing that some things are just meant for you. What the events that happened on that day? And you know, this is back, gosh, it's quite a long time ago now, but I just remember it so vividly, waiting to go through immigration. And because that was saying, getting that visa was my like, my passport, really, to a new life. And I remember just being in this queue waiting to go on to see an immigration officer to get my visa to enter the country. And the queue was not moving. So many people were being asked to sit down. And that time, there was a lot of people that were in, you know, they had the same dream as me, but some for some people, it didn't happen. They were sent back. And you know, that was, this was actually in full unfolding in front of me, and I could see people being asked to sit down. Some people were crying, and I was just standing there, and, you know, I just thinking, is this going to be me, you know, being asked to sit down? And I had no idea. And this queue wasn't moving. And there was another queue which was next to me, which was like, there were people in transit from America. So obviously their self, you know, them being served, was a lot quicker. And that queue finished, and there's just me standing in this queue, and I was like, the last, probably one of the last people in the queue, and this immigration officer just say to me, also, you know those people that help, you know at the at the airport, you say to me, you know you can go to that line because they finish serving people. And usually, you know, when you think about if you're in a queue, is the first person who's or the next person to be served that gets to go first. However, I was, like I said, towards the end of the queue, and I went on this, you know, this line I got served, and my exchange with this immigration officer was just to say he was there for a reason for my life. He was you. I don't know who he is. I don't know his name. However, I think it was that was the beginning of just realizing that some things were just meant for me. I mean, I went to this immigration officer, he was smiling. And what I had heard about the immigration officers, they do not smile. They're very straight people. And he was smiling. It's such a warm smile on his face, asking my reasons for being there. I explained it. I shared all my documents that I had, and he picked up the stamp, stamped my passport, and he said, Good luck. And you know when you just think about certain things being aligned, certain people being put in your path. This was the beginning of it for me. And actually, maybe I was that age where I was able to acknowledge this, that this is what's going on. Yeah. So that's how my, you know, journey into coming, you know, moving to the UK, started at that time

Agi Keramidas 9:14
when I hear that. For me, the reflection that comes is that moment that things change, you are in a queue, and at one moment, one person comes and picks you and takes you to the other queue, which you have the outcome that happened, whereas it could have easily not happened. And when I think of it like that, how one moment can determine our life. I mean the word destiny comes to mind with this. And it's, it's, you know, humbling when you think of it like that. This is my own reflection of this story. Let me move to the next very significant event. That is much, much closer to the present moment. That was when we went, that was in 2015 when we went to Cappadocia on a pilgrimage journey. And there you had an extraordinary healing experience while we were walking and you were about to cross the bridge, the only thing I will let you share this story, because it is, I believe, a powerful story. And of course, the difference that that event made in your life, it was incredible. So for me, the only preface, I will give us a factual of what was going on. We had traveled to Cappadocia with a group of people led by my dear friend, Shaman, northern dear Alexander. And that was the first time you actually met him in person. And during that journey, that pilgrimage. One day we went on a hike, and we went along a river, and at some point there was a bridge, a pedestrian bridge crossing the river. And Alexander said, this is the bridge of destiny, where you can leave something behind as a symbolism when you cross the bridge, and he shared it from the shamanic perspective, I will conclude painting the picture, and then I will put that in your from your perspective that we were about 12 people or so, and 11 of us have passed through the bridge after doing that, and here you are the only one left behind on the other side of the bridge, not moving at all, hesitating. So it was obvious that something was happening there. I went to reach for you, and Alexander helped me. And he said, No, let her, let her. And I did. So

Thoko Madzimbamuto 11:59
yeah, so it really warms my heart every time I think about that day, that moment, and that experience with Alex, because it really transformed, like the biggest struggle. I would put it in those words that I had, you know, during that period, or since I was, you know, a child really is from a very, very younger age. And you know, as you shared, you know, when that was my first time meeting Alexandra as well, Alex and you know, when you told me about your friend, I was like, Oh yeah, Shaman, okay. I just really didn't have many expectations, you know, from my encounter with him, but you know, as you shared that we were on a pilgrimage with him. And you know, for people that have worked with Alex, or that have been in his space, you know that it's you know, when you're around him, his energy and anything you can feel his presence, you can feel his presence, and every moment that you walk, or everything that, anything that you do with him, it's like a meditative process from the beginning. And, you know, like as you shared, we got to this bridge. We'd been walking for some, for a while or and we got to this bridge, and he as a practice, he got us to do that time was, you know, where we were before we crossing the bridge was our life as it was now, and crossing the bridge would be our new life. And he shared about for us to think about something that we wanted to leave behind before crossing the bridge. And for me, I just really didn't have anything that I thought I wanted to leave behind or resolve. I struggled to come up with something, and everybody had gone, and I just could not get on a bridge. It was so difficult for me to get on the bridge at that in the beginning, as I said, I didn't know what is it that I wanted to share, to leave behind and forgive, and, you know, and resolve. And I think I was actually facing the opposite to the bridge, you know, and I just could not get myself to get on this bridge. And I just started to cry, crying, I remember, started crying in that moment and and it just came to me that I'd been holding on a lot of lot of resentment towards my mother at that time, due because of, you know, things that happened in my childhood that I didn't know and I couldn't really understand when I was a child. I mean, there was some some cultural stuff there as well, and it was just difficult for me to let go of this resentment, this anger that I felt towards her, and I will use that word, because I know that's one of the like, always vibrational, you know, energies that you can be in anger, and I was still holding on to this, and somehow I just, you know, because it came up, I knew this is something that I had to. I had to work on and I started to say, You know what, let's, let's, let's see where this is going. And then I got on the bridge, took my first step onto the bridge, and it was difficult. It wasn't an easy thing to do. You know, when you're holding on to something for over 20 years? Oh, it's not easy to let go. However, started walking on this bridge and took another step, and then took another step and got to the middle of the bridge, or roughly thereabouts, and I started to feel lighter. I just started to feel like, like something was changing in me during that moment. And as I walked to the end of the bridge, I felt so much lighter. I felt so relieved. And the incredible thing is, no one asked me, what had happened, nobody. No one asked me, what is it that I wanted to resolve? And got to the other side of the bridge, and we carried on walking. However, that moment I cherish for the rest of my life, and that always wouldn't be with me, because what happened that day, that moment, was very significant, and it changed my relationship with my mother forever, really, yeah, such a beautiful moment and such a wonderful moment that I experienced that day. Do

Agi Keramidas 16:33
you want to share a bit more about how it changed your relationship with your mother?

Thoko Madzimbamuto 16:38
So I think when we got back to where we were staying, you know, as a group at that time, stealing cuppadocia, I wanted to speak with Alex about what had happened. And yes, you know, we sat down and asked him, Alex, what happened, because I still don't understand what happened that moment on the bridge, and I didn't tell him really, a lot of what I was going through with that time. And I just said it was to do with my mother. And he said to me that moment, I know every time I talk about this, I do, you know, get quite emotional. And you know, he told me that I I saw my mother as a human being for the first time, and not what society expects her to be. And you know, he went on to further explain to me that, you know, she made decisions that she made during that time. You didn't understand. However, she was just another human being trying to figure it out, trying to do the best that she could. And she said, when you say to me, when you decided to let go of what you were holding on to, is because you acknowledged that rare on journey, you acknowledge she was a human being, and those words really transformed, like I say, it was just a continuation of this transformation. And you know, when we got back from that trip, I remember having a conversation. I spoke to my mom on the phone. She didn't know where I'd gone or where I was, and, you know, during the conversation with her, she told me that she loved me, and just hearing those words from her, because I hadn't explained to her what had happened or what I had been working on, or how I felt. I don't think she really even knew how I felt about our relationship. And, you know, just hearing those words from her, just it was amazing, and then she's just reflecting on that. So I think what I realized was that it probably wasn't the first time that she said those words to me. However, it was the first time I heard her. Is the first time I really connected with her. And it was beautiful from then on. I mean, you know my, you know my journey and with, you know, with my childhood and things that happen, and, you know, without going, going too much into detail, and, you know, like so decisions were made when I was younger, and I didn't understand, however, just acknowledging that she did the best that she could with, you know, the situation that it was, and It was the best decision that she ever made for me as well, because I wouldn't be here where I am right now without those decisions being made and but I heard her for the first time. Yeah,

Agi Keramidas 19:55
there is a question that comes to my mind to ask you, which I hadn't thought. About but since you said this story, is there someone listening that they have some similar in a similar way, I mean anger or resentment, or their mother? What's one thing you would tell her or him

Thoko Madzimbamuto 20:22
have the conversation, because sometimes it's just a simple misunderstanding or just a lack of knowledge about the situation, or, you know, it could have been like a word that wasn't saved in the right way that the other person didn't take, you know, took offense to and as in my case, she had, as far as I know, she had no idea how I felt. Because, you know, I could say those decisions were made 20 years ago. And for some reason, you know, and as well, I know it's not just so for like the children, or it's also for the for the parents, if there is, you know, ever situations that maybe happened to with, you know, with the children or and if you feel sometimes like there is a bad distance between you and your children, I would just encourage you to have a conversation. Just talk to each other. And, you know, sometimes, like I say, it could just be a simple misunderstanding, or it could just be a simple explanation, could change everything. Yeah, we

Agi Keramidas 21:31
do, and I will speak from my personal experience, we do take to tend. We do tend to make assumptions when we don't know the information from the other person's point of view, and depending on it's anyway, that's a different topic. Yeah,

Thoko Madzimbamuto 21:49
I mean, I would add to that, because, you know what you've got thing, like, we're humans, and it's human nature, sometimes when there is gaps in things that we tend to want to fill the gaps with our own understanding. And, you know, it's like, it's a, it's like a scientific thing. I think it's a or a biological thing. I'm not really sure exactly, but, you know, I've heard that. You know, when there's a gap in the brain, the brain will try to feel fit, you know, fill that gap in. And it might, the information might not be true, but however, just, you know, conversation, just sit down and talk, and it can resolve so many misunderstandings and so many problems or so many issues. So I invite you to have the conversation. If you something that you want to resolve, just talk.

Agi Keramidas 22:36
Thank you. Let's move on a bit forward, down, down the line, since we started with going chronologically. So it's it's a nice way of presenting events. Yes, I will move two years after that event in Cappadocia, where we went together for the first time to Tony Robbins event, UPW, unless the power within and you know, personally, I have spoken so many times about that event, etc, but I would like to hear you know your experience, your thoughts, would change for you at that time, at that event in 2017 and Of course, that was, I will add that one of, or probably the first, or one of the first, anyway, of the personal development events or seminars that we did together, because we have done together quite a lot of them, but in particular that one, because it was the first, it was so powerful for me. It was transformational. I would like to hear your experience of the first encounter with, you know, Tony Robinson, his event that time, yeah,

Thoko Madzimbamuto 23:52
and I think you know which we just saw fortunate that we do a lot of these events together. We are on this path of personal growth and personal mastery together. And I remember that first event you know, Tony Robbins. And for me, the I think my journey in this lifetime is about self, love relationships, resolving anything, anything that you know might be challenging. And I think for me, like what I realized it that Sony Robbins event, and I remember he does this exercise where he takes you, I think it's part of the dickens process, and then he takes you through, you know, what if things don't change? And then what I really like about that is like he takes you to when the change has happened. And I think for me, just realized, I think again, on this journey of, I think myself, it's like self love, mastery, if I can call it that, because I think that's, you know, at that event, that's something that became a not. I was bit I was aware of where my journey was going with that, and because we were doing these events together, it's, you know, it's, it really helps because, you know, you can have a better understanding of the other person, what they're going through, because I was there with you, and I was seeing your reactions as well about, you know, what was going on at that time. And I just had, you know, this love for this journey that we both, you know, we're both going through and and obviously, with that event, it was much more transformational for you. And I think for me, it's because I'm, I went there the open minded, I really didn't have any expectations of what is it that I wanted to so I wanted something to come up, you know, and I wanted, you know, my my higher self, to guide me with what is it that I wanted to transform, I wanted to work with? And it was, again, self, love and relationships, and the expectations that I had about our relationship, you know, just realizing that it starts with me, and it starts with how I am, how I'm feeling, how and then then that then translated into anything else that I do, you know, our relationship with you, you know, with my parents, with with anybody, really. So I think for me, that was also the beginning of work, you know, realizing this journey of self love must renounce, to call it, yeah. So that was my experience of being at Tony Robbins,

Agi Keramidas 26:27
yeah, I will come back. Because you mentioned the self love a few times, I will come back to that, but because you also said the expectations, you reminded me of what Tony Robbins says, trade your expectations for appreciation, and your life will change in a moment. And it is a very profound phrase. When you think about what expectations versus appreciation, they're completely opposite. You You talked about self love, and I think in many ways, the the importance of that is obvious, or it should be obvious anyway. But I, I know that self love and healing, but self love in particular is one of your main drivers, that drives your journey. So I would like to hear your reflection on this, yes,

Thoko Madzimbamuto 27:26
and I think you know with this, and like I say some of I think this journey for me in this lifetime, because this is something that I have battled with when I since I was younger. Because, again, I know with certain things that happened, you know, in my childhood, and things like that. And you know, because you sort of, you sort of doubt who you are, and you sort of doubt the love that you know, that that people around you show you and you know and give to you. You know, however, when you really start to, you know, peel things back and actually look at things, not maybe so much as a whole, sometimes in isolation, or could be moments. It could be events. It could be people. It could be, I realized that there was so much love around me. There was so much love around me from, you know, my family, from my friends, from, you know, people that were in my life at that time, or anybody that has tried to do anything to help, they could not have only tried to do that from love. However, it's when you don't feel that love yourself for yourself, and it's something that is within you go outside to try and find that you go outside for people to try and fill that gap, that void. For you, I'm only smiling because our relationship has really taught me to go within, because there was moments. I'll be honest, I don't know if I think I probably shared this with you, that I was looking for that love that was missing in you, but however, you know, and however with our relationship, like you've you know, You're your own person. You're working on your own stuff. And it's like, if I haven't got that inside me. How am I expecting somebody else to fill that void? And I remember this is a conversation I had with Alex as well, and he was saying, we all have love within us. And he kept telling me about your love every time I talk about, you know, love and this is hard, because this person does this, and this person does that. And in his He kept telling me that you know the love is within you. You don't need to go and find it anywhere else you you know, you try and realize that it is within you. And you know, I know you've had so many podcast guests you know, and I've listened to many stories that you know, people have shared about their journey and their. You know the path that they've been in. And everybody talks about going within, and when you're going within, you're going within the self. And if you're thinking about love, it's not out of air. You know it is, and it's hard, because you know certain things happen that you know your judgment gets clouded with certain things. And, you know, we've got the brain as well. We've got the mind that tells us how things should be. However, you know, sometimes it's about going from here and just going here. And that journey, it's such a short journey, really, when you think about anatomy, however, it's such one of the most difficult journeys to do, and just, you know, feeling the love within yourself. There are so many things, obviously, that you can do. However, just stop looking, I was told myself, to stop looking to the outside for that. And, you know, make the journey within. And that's helped me with, like healing as well. Because, you know, with the self love that I was, the love that was looking for my mom, it was always there. But it was, I wouldn't say bad, it was always there. However, it was there in a different form to what I had I was expecting, like what you were saying. I guess about trading those, you know, expectations for appreciation, was appreciating. What is it that you know is here now? What is it that has been done for me that's been good for me? And that's where you'd start to realize, actually a lot of things were done out of love for me. And then start to realize, you know, that actually it's already there. I don't need to keep looking out there and trying to find, I'm not saying I'm there. It's a journey. It's an ongoing journey. And you know, this is conversations that we have in our relationship every single time that you know, we're growing together, we're discovering these things together. However, I cannot give you what I don't have within me. And just like having those realizations that the expectations that I've got for other people I really should be having those for myself? Yeah,

Agi Keramidas 32:10
yes, it comes from within. Just the same, like happiness. It's not something that you can get from anything outside of you. There is a, well, spring inside. And I like what you said about this being it looks like a very short journey, but it is not an obvious journey how to navigate this, but it is a very meaningful journey, because it changes the way I see it now. It changes your perception of what life is and how to operate in this experience that we are having. Do you want to move? There is one other event that I wanted to to discuss for me, it was very significant. I know for you also was very significant, and that was our 10th anniversary two years ago, which we actually spent that not talking to each other and not not talking to anyone else, for that matter, because both of us were doing the 10 day silent meditation retreat. If I'm not mistaken, our anniversary was on day seven or summer just after the middle of the so we were we spent it like this, and it was the first time we did either of us. We did the silent meditation retreat, and for 10 days to add to that, because it's not like a couple of days or one day. 10 days is a long time. So how has that experienced? Experience, shape, kill that 10 day silent meditation, course,

Thoko Madzimbamuto 34:08
yeah, wow. That was quite an experience. And I guess for me as well, it was because it's every time I go to like this event, so every time now, now I'm doing events or anything that's got to do with my own growth, it's, you know, it's about peeling another layer and just discovering what's underneath there and just working with whatever it is that I discover at that time. And I think I remember I shared this with you after we, we'd got back and, you know, we, we've been on this, you know, personal development or events together for a very long time. However, that does not mean that our relationship is perfect. It, because there's always things that, you know, there's times when I'm like, he's done this. Why is he doing this? To me? Why is he doing that? And, you know, I realized like, the more that we do these events, or the more that we work on ourselves to grow, there's always something that keeps coming back. And for me, that's that self love, and that's that healing, and that's growth. And, you know, like, it's because, like, this is still coming up, because there's still some more work to do. And I remember, like, being at the, you know, at the 10 daily basin, and just working our relationship again, working on myself, and I think I started to realize that I had everything that I needed within me to make our relationship work. However, as well, there's this tendency that this person needs to do the Agi needs to do the agonies. And I remember even during that those meditations that would have would sit down for hours, and a lot will come up, and a lot will be like, you know, having this dialog. And obviously the part of that is like, we need to try to learn to not to attach to the feelings and the thoughts that were coming. And, you know, sometimes I would have, you know, somebody that's been to the past, and I would know some of the phrases that Goenka uses, and I remember, like, thinking about, Oh, but that's happened. That's happened. This is difficult in our relationship. And then he'll come, he will say Anita, which means, you know, changing, letting go and just and I remember one point we were walking outside, you know, during one of the breaks. And I just remembered that I'm so lucky that you know of God and should be, you know, I'm grateful that I've got Agi in my life. And it just came as a as a thought at that time. And I was like, this, all these expectations I'm having of him. And I started to, like, look at where those expectations were coming from. And I started to feel that some of them were like voice that I had, that were still looking to feel and, you know, but just even though we we spend our 10th anniversary separately, you were there, you were present, and, you know, No, you were just actually sitting on the other side of the room. But we weren't allowed to look at each other. We weren't allowed to like even gesture each other, or anything like that. But just knowing that, you know it's okay, well, this healing journey together, you're working on myself, and that acknowledgement is what that we're doing this together. You know, it was just, it was quite, it may, it made me like, relax a little bit as well, and just accept that I cannot make you do anything. I cannot change you. I can only do this for myself, because there is times when I'm like, why are you not doing this? Why are you not being this way? However, just realizing in those moments that because, like, say, you sit for hours, you cannot escape your mind, you cannot escape your thoughts and just acknowledge, you know, okay, that this is what's coming up. Okay. What does it mean? And for me, like everything that keeps coming up, or like an event that keeps coming up and it seems negative, it's just a way of, you know, your higher self, telling you that there's still a little bit more work to do. There's still a little bit more, you know, to do with this. And I think for me, just acknowledging that no one is perfect, even for myself, I'm not perfect, because Self Love starts with just being kind to myself. It was, yeah, I remember just being such transformation and the fact that we spent it step, not like talking to each other or anything like that. We're doing anything to celebrate, as like most people would do, however, that was our sort of celebration, because that's something that we'll always talk about, and we'll always remember. It's been such a special moment for you know, for having our anniversary. So yeah, I think I'm so grateful that we did this together,

Agi Keramidas 39:01
and so am I, for many reasons, and what you were just saying reminded me also for conversation we had a few weeks back. And it's related. You know, when you been in a relationship, when the other person triggers you. I think that's the word that we're using. Triggers you because of how they behaved, or what they said, or what they didn't say, or whatever. Again, the word expectation comes to mind because we are we have them all the time. But remember when what we were saying that these three years when the other person does something or say something that evokes an emotional response in us, which on hindsight, then we look at it, why did I feel like that? Why did I behave or react? React is a good word in in such a way i. We realized, and that's what we were talking that conversation, that these triggers are not something to be afraid of. It's actually a blessing, something to be grateful and welcome when they happen, because they bring out the unresolved trauma we have within us. So you wouldn't be able to trigger me, if there wasn't something that got triggered by by that and that thing that is, it is so wonderful as an opportunity to grow the self awareness and realize more of you know, there is this part of me again, the self, the term self love comes to mind and self healing of these past traumas or situations or whatever it is in there. So yeah, what are your thoughts in that? That's, I'm happy to that we share that also as well, because I think it's, it was, for me, a revelation that the triggers are a blessing the trauma comes up for me to heal it. So I might not be able to process it at that time, and I may still be reacting, but I becoming more and more aware of it.

Thoko Madzimbamuto 41:14
Yeah, and it's like you say something that's very important. There is that awareness. Because, you know, sometimes even when these traumas do come up, or these things that come up that need to be resolved, it's not so much about, you know, in that moment, I need to find a solution. I need to find a solution. Sometimes it's just about acknowledging that, you know, that's come up and, you know, obviously the goal, and obviously everyone the goal is for us to heal and to try and resolve whatever this is going on. But however, it's like that awareness, it does go such a long way, because, you know, the moment you become aware things don't, don't, then don't happen automatically. Because you know, as you know, in our relationship, we've been together for very long time, sometimes certain triggers will come and without the awareness won't talk for days. It's

Agi Keramidas 42:09
I remember the early days of that, yes, exactly.

Thoko Madzimbamuto 42:13
And you know, even though there would these events would happen over and over again, I would be not talking to you for days over and over again. However, it's just like now we're starting to have this awareness. And you know, I think with the with awareness is what would have kind of found useful or important for us is to talk about it. So for example, as well, if I say something or I say something that I know might have potentially triggered you. I check in now, don't I sometimes, like I say, I'm noticing this. I'm noticing this. Let me know if I'm, you know, what I'm saying is right, or if I'm not, what I'm noticing is right, because also, I don't want to get into this point of like, I start to take on, which is something that you know you're aware of that. I used to take it on as something that I've done or something that I've said that has sort of triggered you, and then I start to take the blame, trying to blame myself for the situation. But now I check in with you, just so that both of us are aware, because then it helps my own awareness to say, Okay, next time maybe I need to say things slightly different. And you know, because we we know about, like, the love languages, that's something that we talk about as well. And just when you're aware of, you know, the other person, or you're aware of, like, how you are and how you are relating to the other person that helps bridge that gap of someone has done something wrong, and I'm angry at a person, or mad at this person. I mean, it is, obviously, it's a journey, something that we're still working on. And what I do like now as well. Sometimes I appreciate is sometimes when something has happened, you actually communicate now and you say something, I'll remember you. Sometimes you say, I'm trying. And sometimes that just really warms my heart because whatever I was sort of feeling at that time, and because we've, you know, we've, we've now developing this openness about our feelings, our emotions. And I'm so grateful because I know some of that has happened because of your buddy, Jamie, that you talk about stuff, and you learn to, you know, express your emotion. If anybody hasn't listened to that podcast, it's very it's for men, especially transformational, because I've seen the growth that's happened from that those conversations happening, however, just talking, I mean, just holding grudges or holding certain things, it does not solve anything. You know, check in, you know, checking in maybe in a polite way. And sometimes you don't have polite words to say, just check in with the other person to say, Okay, I say this. I'm noticing this. Let me know for what I'm noticing is correct. Because, again, it could be a simple misunderstanding, but again, that comes with awareness, as you mentioned, like awareness of which is something that happens. You know, it's a journey. It's not something that you just wake up and one day you're aware. It's because of certain situations. Questions I've been in that awareness does grow over time. Yeah,

Agi Keramidas 45:08
this has been such a beautiful conversation, and in in many ways, I took some it took some unexpected turn. So I'm really grateful for, you know, having this conversation, there are some things. Well, as you know, I have my quick questions for you, which I will ask. Before I do, I will take an initiative, and I hope that you don't have any objection, I would invite the listeners, the mastery seeker that resonates with or has resonated with what you say, to reach out to you through the mastery seekers tribe, which where you're a part of the new community and connect. But I will leave it to you, unless you want to say it in a different way. No,

Thoko Madzimbamuto 46:06
no, I'm more than happy. And I think, you know, because when you when you're growing and when you're healing, by healing yourself, you're helping heal the world, heal humanity. Because we were all energy. We were all the same, and you know, like, say, I'm, you know, I'm open to anyone who wants to have the conversations about, you know, my journey, what I'm, you know, my healing journey, self, love, yeah, mastery, seeker, strive, is where you'll find me. I'm sure Agi will leave the links in the, you know, the show notes. But yeah, you know, I'm more than happy if I can, because, like I said, this is a journey that I'm still on. If I can help somebody just, you know, maybe just start to think about certain things more than happy to have a conversation. Yes, definitely. That's

Agi Keramidas 46:51
great. So Robin thinks of what does personal development mean to you?

Thoko Madzimbamuto 46:58
Personal development means self love, healing and discontinuing on that journey. Because I think, you know, I guess I explained the healing starts within and it starts with me. If I'm not healed, then there's no way I'll be able to or if I haven't got the self love, there's no way I'll be able to give that out to, you know, to the world to do money to anyone really. I'm sure most people know the saying you cannot pour from an empty cup. You know, sometimes it's difficult. There are times where you might have to pour from an empty cup, but it won't last long, because that needs to be refueled somehow. So and for me, it's like just being on this journey to self love, mastery, personal mastery, and just being, you know, being open to whatever life you know throws my way, and just sometimes acknowledging that I don't know, sometimes I feel like you know, some things in life are written. Some people say that. But however, just being on this journey and just accepting that, you know, what I have is enough, um, whilst I'm, you know, trying to being on this journey of developing myself, however, sometimes acknowledging that what is within me is enough, and just, you know, being grateful for That and acknowledging that whilst, you know, growing um, and mastering my own personal growth.

Agi Keramidas 48:26
And hypothetically, if you could go back in time and meet your 18 year old self, what's one piece of advice you would give her?

Thoko Madzimbamuto 48:35
Oh, I know I've had this question so many times, and now you're always like, if I'm asked this question, I'm going to ask, answer it this way. But for me, if I could go back, it would be, I think I shared this a little bit earlier on about the journey that I've been on with. You know, with the healing my relationship with my mom is have the conversation with whoever that person is, my might not be. I'm your mom. It could be a friend, it could be a son, it could be a daughter. You know, have resolve, whatever it is that you know, you might feel like it's it's never going to get resolved. There's no way that is going to happen. By I invite you to have the conversation, just talk, you know, just If, however, whatever means that the conversation happens. But I would encourage you to just have this conversation with whoever you feel like. You know, there's something that's unresolved or there's something that needs healing. Because, you know, I never really, I, even though I never got the opportunity to have the full on conversation with my mom, you know, I know from like an energy point of view, of spiritual point of view, she knew how I felt, you know, and she knew how much I loved her. Unfortunately, she's no longer here for me to have that conversation. And. That's why I invite you. If that person is still here, please do have that conversation. I invite you to just talk and so that would be if I could go back. That's the message that I'll give myself. Just it might be difficult, however, try and find ways to heal whilst you still have the time.

Agi Keramidas 50:24
Thank you so much for this conversation, this truly special podcast conversation, any final thoughts, any parting words with how would you like to end this? For me, I'm overjoyed. Thank you so much. This was it's been a long time we've been talking about it. Finally it happens, and I'm so grateful.

Thoko Madzimbamuto 50:52
Yeah, no, I just really wanted to thank you as well for having this space and this platform for you know people to share their journey, their stories, their inspiration, because I've also been inspired by the people that have been here on your podcast, and they've also been part of my healing journey, part of my self love. And I just really want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for everything that you do, you know, for being who you are, and for being in my life, and you know, for us growing together, and when I get emotional, you know, being on his journey, that we are on together, and I'm so blessed and really grateful that you are part of you know, you're in my life, and we're doing this together. So thank you so much. Appreciate you. And I've always wanted to say this, stand out. Don't fit in!