How to Stop Overthinking Your Way Through Change and Start Listening for Clarity, with Sarah Andreas | #582

Agi Keramidas (0:00)
How to stop overthinking your way through change and start listening for clarity. Welcome to Personal Development Mastery, the podcast helping midlife professionals in transition turn uncertainty into clear direction and confident next steps. I am your host, Agi Keramidas.
This is episode 582. If you are navigating a transition, this conversation explores how creativity, embodiment and identity work can guide you through a powerful reinvention. Before we start, if you are a midlife professional in a long-standing career ready for a change, I offer one-to-one coaching to help you stop circling in indecision and move forward with confidence.
As a former dentist who made this transition myself, I know how challenging this can feel. To learn more, visit personaldevelopmentmasterypodcast.com slash mentors. That's personaldevelopmentmasterypodcast.com slash mentors. The link is in the episode description. Now let's begin. Today, it's my real pleasure to speak with Sarah Andreas.
Sarah, you help women navigate the space between who they have been and who they are becoming. After years in leadership and academia, you reached a quite turning point and returned to art using creativity as a tool for clarity and identity change. Your work reframes reinvention as a natural awakening, helping women make grounded decisions about their next chapter.
Sarah, welcome to the show. It's a real pleasure to speak with you today.

Sarah Andreas (1:59)
Thank you. I appreciate you having me on your show.

Agi Keramidas (2:03)
I'm looking forward to seeing the resonance of the topics because you do talk about the exact same topics that the podcast is focused on, at least in its current season. Many of my listeners are capable people, thoughtful people who try to think their way to the right answer. Yet, they may be stuck.
My question was, how does creativity reveal the clarity that perhaps it's impossible to achieve just by thinking alone?

Sarah Andreas (2:45)
I think it's super interesting. In the United States especially, we are trained that logic is the thing that matters. We should be able to think through everything.
What I've realized as I've gone through training and this experience with creativity is that a lot of times we have the answer inside of us, but logic isn't the way to get there. The way we get there is by slowing down, by doing embodiment practices, by learning to think as a whole being instead of just with our brain. Creativity, which I absolutely love to talk about, is not just like I paint, but creativity is not just painting.
Creativity is anything that you're doing mindfully. I run into business people all the time who say, I'm not creative. I can't draw a stick figure.
Reality is we are all creativity, creative in some way. Figuring out what our creativity is can really help us move ourselves to next levels because when we get in that zone, usually it's called flow, but when we get into flow, it allows for opportunities to come to us that we might not have even been thinking about. For example, one of the things that I tell people is you can do creative mindful practices with cooking.
When you're going to cook dinner for your family or for yourself, it's the intention that you're putting behind it and then getting yourself into flow as you're going through the steps of chopping or whatever you're doing to prepare it. Creativity doesn't have to be fine arts. It can be anything.
I even read a coaching book once that said you can get into that same state by taking walks in nature or by spending time with a pet that you love and you're just being in that state of flow and openness.

Agi Keramidas (5:00)
You mentioned the embodiment practices, so I was wondering if what you just described now about spending time with a pet or cooking constitute these kinds of embodiment practices or were you meaning something specific or something different?

Sarah Andreas (5:22)
For me, now there's all kinds of, I'm sure somebody will disagree with me, right? There's always somebody, but for me, I think embodiment practices are when we are getting out of our heads and into our bodies. We're doing something that moves our focus away from constantly thinking.
You know how the best ideas come to you when you're in the shower or when you're doing something and you aren't focused on that problem anymore and all of a sudden you come up with the solution? That's because you got out of your head and more into your body and allowed yourself to think or feel differently about what you're trying to solve.

Agi Keramidas (6:05)
Thank you. The only thing with this experience, at the shower in particular as you said, is that you do not, it happens sometimes but doesn't happen all the time and that's why I was asking about the practice as whether it is a practice as such that takes you out of your head and more into...

Sarah Andreas (6:27)
Yes, you can do it more often, like I do it when I paint. So because I have that, it's something I do a lot, it is a practice for me and so that's where I get out of my head and into my body. I think the big piece of it is being mindful about your intentions with what you're going to do.

Agi Keramidas (6:53)
Thank you, that's important and very useful, being mindful about the intention for sure. Sarah, I will kind of switch gears actually and I would like to talk about transitions, external success yet unfulfilled, on the other hand something in internal that not necessarily is clear or can't be expressed. So let me start with this, why do you think there are so many people or women in particular, since you work mostly with women, that even if life on the successful, they still feel restless or there is something not quite right inside?

Sarah Andreas (7:47)
Yeah, so I think for everyone there's always different reasons but I think at the core of it is as humans we grow and change, we are constantly learning, we're engaging in stuff differently, hopefully we're growing and changing to be better and not to decline, but what I think happens a lot of times is we look externally for confirmation that what we are doing is successful.
So what I discovered for myself is I was working at Harley Davidson dealerships for 14 years and if you would look at, I was in school, I was really successful in my job, I loved it, the people I worked with loved me, it was all really good, but I was leading a ride for Ladies Adventure Weekend which was women from all over the United States come in and ride their motorcycles and we stopped at a restaurant and it had a gift shop and I was in the gift shop looking around and I saw this little painted pony statue and underneath of it it said butterflies fly free and I remember like I held my breath and it almost made me cry and I'm like what is wrong with me and so I left the shop that day really confused about why was I getting emotional over something about being free when everything looks so good on the outside and a couple weeks later I went back and bought that statue and put it on my desk because what I realized was that even though it looks successful it wasn't fulfilling something deeper inside of me and I needed to have some kind of a change and that I think is for some people can be super scary for me it was super scary the idea that I was going to do something totally different than what my plan was the whole entire time I was in this career path and I think when we let fear dictate what we're going to do or we let external expectations dictate what we're going to do I think we live not as fulfilling of lives as we could.

Agi Keramidas (10:21)
How much of that fear or of that perhaps I will broaden it a bit of that resistance there is to do that change how much of it is related to one's identity but I mean professional identity because I have I'm sure you have seen it also that the more time one has spent in a career and there are some careers that are very identity defining for example I was a dentist so that is pretty much you know it follows you around so what I wanted to ask what is the the role there of a long-standing professional identity as you know as a as a break as an obstacle to moving on and doing that change that you mentioned

Sarah Andreas (11:15)
yeah I think our identities are our key to that I think every time we feel that internal restlessness or that we are bigger on the inside than our lives are that that that's an opportunity for us to expand but when we have that invitation to expand to become bigger to to live life differently it's that identity that we have has to shift and we have to be willing to say I'm going to let go of an identity so for you you you had to let go of the identity of being a dentist to move to your next level for me I had to let go of the identity of being the director of operations and training for five Harley Davidson having the cool job right I had to let go of that identity to move into my next level and I believe if if we're growing and if we're trying to live lives that are full and abundant and that we absolutely love that we have to normalize the idea that our identity is going to shift that we are going to be different next year than we are right now that I read all the time and one of my favorite books to read right now is called be your future self now it's by Benjamin Dr. Benjamin Hardy and what he talks about is that oftentimes we think we're not going to change very much but if you look at yourself now and you look at yourself 10 years from now you're going to change a lot if you look backwards at you know what did I change how did I change from last year you are a different individual and the idea is to allow your future self whoever that future self is going to be to help direct that transition to make it easier and what I think a lot of people struggle with is this idea of actually going through that transition because most of us are not given the tools to handle that kind of transition we're taught to think through like think logically make a checklist of the pluses and the minuses and that helps a little bit but the reality is we have a nervous system as well that's part of our body and we have to get our nervous system in line with this change that we're trying to do

Agi Keramidas (13:52)
or we keep self-sabotaging we were taught as you said we were taught to think through it and that is the default way of you know responding to any given situation especially one like this so tell us how how do you help someone let's say loosen this professional identity that they've been carrying for perhaps 20 years or so

Sarah Andreas (14:16)
they've been carrying for perhaps 20 years or so yeah yeah so I actually just went through I go through this process often and so because I go through it often I work with a coach I have a coaching partner and Rose and I coach and we often say it's about peeling the onion that keeps getting bigger so every time you peel one layer off you get a bigger layer and this last time I was going through it I wrote a book to myself because when I get when I feel that feeling I either paint or I write and I wrote a book and I took myself through these steps so that I could understand it better and then I published it just a month ago it's called step into the ether and what I talk about is reveal render and rise so reveal is where you start to feel that feeling like there's something I'm I have more opportunity there's something bigger and what I what I talk to people about is that's not about taking action that's about really slowing down and listening to yourself reflections writing journaling taking you know I talk a lot about walks in nature but really letting your mind slow down so you can feel something different and the one thing I think that's really important when you're in this stage of figuring it out is it's really easy for us to go have a conversation with somebody else and tell them hey this is all this stuff and we let that other person's perception change or influence what our vision is becoming of what we're becoming next I think for for you to really live a life you love you have to kind of do some of that journey by yourself so that you can really start to understand what is it that I really want what is it that's really calling to me right now and not try to rush to the answer too soon it's um easy for us because we're we're impatient and we like at least me like to get there faster because it's like that feeling is not fun right most for most people feeling stuck or feeling like you're not quite something's not quite right that's not fun and so it's it's easy to try to rush to whatever the right answer is but the reality is if you slow down and take a step back and just breathe like do yoga find a creative practice do meditation whatever it is that helps you slow down and really marinate on the idea that something's shifting and let the answer kind of develop I think you get to a better answer so doing those kind of practices and you're shaking your head so I'm assuming that you've experienced that but doing that then lets you get to the next stage where it's about exploring what all those feelings are about and finding like okay here here's my opportunities here's the things what what would my next life be like what is the next piece of this journey for me and I love that I I love that we don't have to be stuck in one identity even even if it's an identity that you absolutely love there's going to be a time where that doesn't fit you anymore and I think the more you have those kind of mindful tools the journaling working with a coach who and I think it's important to understand that you don't need a coach who's going to tell you what to do you need somebody who can listen and ask you questions to help you think through it that's

Agi Keramidas (18:22)
exactly right what coaching or at least the proper coaching is about it's not about providing the the answers that's hardly the case I'll come back to something you you said and you mentioned the practices to to reveal and then you said there is the next the second stage was rendered so I would like to hear a bit about that I suppose it is the actual action that leads you to the

Sarah Andreas (18:53)
the rise which was the third one yeah yeah so in render what I think we're doing is more of the visualization of what our next piece of our journey can be um I am a big believer in um and I should come up with a name for this but basically what I've discovered in my life is that if we hold our plan with a closed fist and we have like hey this is my this is where I'm going this is going to be my new identity this is going to be my new thing that we really limit the opportunities of um for even greater things because we're so stuck on this plan as humans which is I think humans are just fascinating but we have mental blinders that when we're focused on something allows us to only see things that fit into that specific narrative or specific plan and so if we can teach ourselves to really hold our plans and our new identity and what we're trying to achieve in an open palm which means that there I'm open to all opportunities that come with this that gives our brains that naturally filter stuff an opportunity to say okay here are some other possibilities that you may not even be aware of because you were so focused on this and when I started doing this practice I have had so many more amazing opportunities that and and paths in my life that I would have never had if I stayed focused on what my original plan was when I started the process and and for me learning that when I feel stuck I'm in this process of reinvention and it's okay it helps me move through that process a lot faster because if you view it if you feel like hey I'm stuck this is a problem um I I always associate this with midlife crisis for people the only reason it's a midlife crisis is because they don't have the tools to work through it it wouldn't be a crisis if you understood what was happening and you could work through it and so I think a lot of times in our lives um we feel that that feeling of I'm stuck I I can't figure out what's going on but I just well I don't like this feeling um and we let it spiral versus being oh this is this is another growth opportunity for me and this is a process that I know I'm going to go through it helps to stabilize you because you know oh it's a process I'm working through it and the way I do it is I I journal I do reflection I talk to a coach I do some mindful practices and then I start to envision what the next future step is going to be

Agi Keramidas (22:13)
this is great and it is actually what I was hoping to to get or to elicit from you so thank you for this uh answer uh I will also uh go briefly on something as you mentioned the word reinvention in your answer right now and I understand that you there is some reframing that you do with that word reinvention which I would like to hear because there is awakening that's the two parts of the sentence reinvention and awakening and the reason why I'm asking is because and you said midlife crisis I when I refer to my own personal you know period of transition I refer to it as midlife awakening rather than crisis so I would like to hear your thoughts on that on the reframing on the awakening and yeah you know what uh what what changes when one

Sarah Andreas (23:15)
shifts their way of looking into it yeah um so I'll start with this the very first time I realized I do a lot of reframing of words was on networking when I first thought I was going to go into business I thought I have to start networking with people and as soon as I said the word networking my neck would start breaking out just because I was so nervous about doing that and what I realized is uh I worked with a coach I work with a lot of coaches is that networking is really about meeting making friends with people and staying in contact and so I was like oh I can do that like I can make friends and talk to people that way and so for a lot of of my experiences there are times when there are words and I think this happens to everybody when there are words in our life that we assign a negative connotation to it because of an experience that we've had and then whenever we're presented with the possibility of that word whatever the word is it's networking or it's midlife change or awakening if we assign the word crisis to it then all of a sudden it has this connotation that it's bad and I love that you reframed it as midlife awakening because then it's a good thing right it's an experience that you get to do to change something phenomenal to something even greater and I think that a lot of times we need to pay attention to how we're labeling things which is why I use the word reinvention versus midlife crisis or identity shift or anything like that because wow reinvention gives us lots of opportunities to do something totally amazing versus oh I have a problem I'm the problem I need to change something about what I'm doing yes indeed and tell us a bit more about reinvention yeah so I what I realized this last time when I wrote step into the ether is that I personally I must just like it must be something natural for me I like reinvention every couple of years I reinvent myself or what I'm doing or how I'm doing something I like that kind of change but what I realized is that a lot of people get scared in this time of transition and they freeze and then they stay in relationships or jobs or life that doesn't fulfill them and so they're living these lives and they have so much more potential than what they're doing and I think there's an opportunity for reinvention in that there's an opportunity um to to become somebody different and I think as long as you're breathing and you have some mental capacity left we have that opportunity to become more to to do something more to do something that's more meaningful and fulfilling for us every year I try to have a word that is or a a sentence that I'm like focused on in the last two years my focus has been living a life I love and I am living a life I love and I'm shocked at how many people I run into who are not living lives they love and if you're not living a life that you love you need to do reinvention you need to figure out what it is that you do love that excites you that makes you passionate and I hear it you hear it all the time in business world they're like find what you love and you'll never work a day in your life or find what you love and the money will follow and so many of us get get our blinders on and we're like life can't be any different than it is right now and I don't love it but it can't be any different well yeah it can be it takes work and that's that's a part of life it's like build your own adventure figure out what it is and then and then take the steps to move towards it and I just think the world would be such a better more positive place if more people were living lives they loved and that they were passionate about.

Agi Keramidas (28:06)
Absolutely, and what you said just broke to my mind that phrase that most people would choose unhappiness over uncertainty. Because when you step into a new role without even knowing very well what that role might be, that brings a lot of uncertainty. And the default for most people unfortunately is, well, I'm saying unfortunately, but it's a basic human need to have some safety, some predictability, to know what's happening.
So uncertainty is an element that we also have to embrace in a way in order to move there. We need to leave that familiar and predictable, whatever it is, the identity, the job, the circumstances behind so we can explore what is ahead. I mean, we can't discover a new land without losing the eyes of the shore.
It's not possible. You have to go in uncharted territory, which is different for each person and scary. It can be scary, but it can be very exciting also.
So I think that's where I wanted to go with this.

Sarah Andreas (29:36)
Yeah, I love that. When I figured out the name for step into the ether, that's the exact thing I was thinking about, was you have to step into the unknown. And it's like as soon as you do that, the universe, God, whatever you believe, comes up to meet you.
And every time you take another step, it's another step towards that thing. And there's opportunities that open. The other thing that I did when I was first starting this transition was I told myself, I'm going to be afraid.
I'm afraid by nature. I think some human nature, probably for a lot of people, is to be afraid of the unknown. And I made the decision that I was going to be afraid, but I was going to do it anyway.
And if I didn't do it right, I would pivot and do something different. And I think it's so important for us to do it afraid, to do it uncertain. I mean, we can build safety nets, right?
We can help ourselves. We can support ourselves through that. But if you don't take the risk, you're going to just be living a life that's just average.
And I think we're meant for more than that.

Agi Keramidas (30:58)
I completely and wholeheartedly agree. Sarah, one more question practically for someone who has been listening to us this half an hour that we've been talking and feels this nudge that, you know what, this is really, it speaks to me. I would really like to do something with it.
What's one thing you would tell her if she was right here now?

Sarah Andreas (31:33)
Yeah. So I, of course, have resources. If they go to my website, there's all kinds of...
I write all the time. I blog, all that kind of stuff. I do videos, and I have some online courses and stuff like that.
Of course, a couple books. But I think make the commitment to yourself that even if you're afraid, you're going to do it anyway. And the other thing that I find super helpful when I'm trying to do transition is I usually create a mantra that tells me what the new truth is going to be because it's easy for us to have old stories stuck in our head about our truth.
And I'll give you a personal example. So I am transitioning myself to be a really successful business owner and to have a role at the college where I work. And that was really nerve-wracking for me.
And what I did was I created a new mantra that says, I'm relaxed, I'm present, I'm creative, bright, and confident, and I live from this place. And when people interact with me, they feel comforted and they feel inspired. So I'm telling myself that new truth because often we have to create conflict in our head, in our minds, between an old story that we have running through our head about how we show up and what we want our new story to be.
If not, we live by default so often. I'm sure you've probably experienced this where you drive home and when you get home, you're like, did I stop at that red light? Because you're on autopilot and you're not thinking about what you're doing, which is really great to be on autopilot so you don't have to think about everything all the time.
But it can sabotage you when you're on autopilot because you don't think about it and you don't question. So you've got to create mechanisms that help you question the things that you believe that you're capable of and the things that you believe you want to achieve in your life because we have society, we have family and friends, we have all these different people giving us stories. Usually when we were younger and I think about it as like a simulation, right?
We assimilated all those stories. It doesn't mean that there are truth. And so we've got to find ways to make sure that what we believe about ourselves are truly the truth.
So I reprogram myself anytime I'm doing something new. I'm like, here's my new truth. And I work through that until it just becomes a part of me.
It becomes a part of what I believe. And I think that that can make a huge difference for anyone who's listening to start there. And of course, I'm a big fan.
Find a great coach. Find somebody who can ask you the hard questions.

Agi Keramidas (34:57)
I like that. You mentioned that already numerous times during the conversation. And I agree.
It is so important. There is only so much we can discover inside the confines of our own mind. It is a closed system.
We can expand it, but it needs some kind of different awareness. So thank you for the continuous reminders. Sarah, tell us also, where can the listeners find more about you?
Where do you want to send them?

Sarah Andreas (35:34)
Sure. So I have two websites. SarahAndrees.com.
And that is my website that has my art. It also has links to my Kajabi site, which is the Soul Zen Studio. And both of those have resources that are some reflections, videos, training.
And then, of course, my art, which I think is a visual reminder of change and transformation.

Agi Keramidas (36:05)
Thank you. I want to thank you very much for this conversation. I believe there were so many practical.
I will insist on that. I think I mentioned that to you before we started recording, that it's always my intention to give practical elements, and there were plenty in this. So thank you very much.
I want to wish you all the very best with carrying on your mission and your reinventions and everything that comes with that. And I will leave it to you for your part in words.

Sarah Andreas (36:49)
So I would just tell everybody, embrace the journey. Embrace your journey. There's so much hope and opportunity there.
And, Aggie, thank you so much for having me on. It was such a pleasure to get to talk to you today.

Agi Keramidas (37:05)
Thank you for listening to this conversation with Sarah Andreas. I hope it has given you a useful perspective on how to embrace change, release outdated identities, and step into a more aligned version of yourself. If you are a midlife professional in a longstanding career, ready for a change, I offer one-to-one coaching to help you stop circling indecision and get clear on what's next.
As a former dentist who's made this transition myself, I know how challenging this can feel. To learn more, visit personaldevelopmentmasterypodcast.com slash mentor. That's personaldevelopmentmasterypodcast.com slash mentor. The link is in the episode description. Until next time, stand out, don't fit in.