The Hidden Emotional Cost of Being a High Achiever (And How to Break Free From It), with Dr Carla Caturia | #630

[Agi Keramidas]
In this episode, you will discover how to stop letting achievement define your identity and start building a more balanced and fulfilling life. Welcome to Personal Development Mastery, the podcast that helps you gain clarity, overcome what holds you back, and take confident next steps towards a more meaningful and aligned life. I am your host, Aggie Keramidas, a personal development mentor and coach, and this is episode 630.

If you are looking to find more fulfillment and stop defining yourself by your achievements, this conversation explores how to stop letting achievement define who you are and how to cultivate self-awareness through small intentional actions. If you're always chasing the next achievement but never feel quite fulfilled, then this episode is for you. Let's begin.

My guest today is Dr. Kala Katouria. Kala, you spent over 20 years in education as a teacher, vice principal, and professor, working with more than 10,000 students and families. In your 40s, you walked away from that career to rebuild something achievement alone hadn't given you, a strong sense of self.

Kala, welcome to the show. It's a real pleasure to speak with you, and I'm looking forward to this conversation.

[Carla Caturia]
Yeah, same here. Thanks so much for having me. I appreciate you.

It's going to be fun.

[Agi Keramidas]
Absolutely, and let me share with the listener or the viewer of the conversation straight away that we're going to talk about achievement, self-worth, how achievement for many has replaced, in a sense, the sense of self or the self-worth, and some practical steps actually to change that. I think it is a very, and let me start with that then, Kala. You talk about, you call it the hidden emotional cost of high achievement, so I would like to hear a little bit about how achievement, for many people anyway, replaces that sense of self that you talk about.

I know I'm going straight into the meat of the conversation, but there we go.

[Carla Caturia]
Yeah, no, of course. I feel myself included. Achievement became my identity, so it wasn't necessarily what I was passionate about, or what I loved, or what I thought was best.

It just became the next level, the next thing. It could be in your career and outside of your career, but I think I started to become someone who I wasn't, and I wasn't hurting anyone. It wasn't a bad thing necessarily, but it wasn't my authentic self.

I had steered so far from who I was into what I needed to be, to be in this position, or be this person in this business. That's where I lost myself, and I was just putting so much pressure on myself to perform versus actually living my life. It was like, we're not here just to work, but that is what, as an adult, that's what it was like for me.

As a child, it was more with grades versus a career. That's how I've had to relearn who I really am now, after I've stepped out of that cycle.

[Agi Keramidas]
You said that you realized that you had steered far away from what you wanted, really wanted to. Was there something, an event, or some experience that made you realize that in order to start changing it?

[Carla Caturia]
I think a couple things. Career-wise, I was watching those above me, my bosses, and saying, they have these good qualities, these other qualities. As a person, I wasn't the thing, but it was just the way they were.

How much time they had to devote to the position, how much energy, and how they just didn't have life balance. Part of me was like, do I want that to become me, where I just become this robot? Then part of it was also that I started to realize that we're all replaceable.

My position was important, but ultimately, I could teach you how to do it. Ultimately, I don't know. I saw a lot of people retire and just have a little party and that was it after 40 years of doing something.

It just came down to a little bit of appreciation for myself and being... Also, was I really helping people in a way that I could truly help them at the deepest level with the constraints of working in a large system? I don't know that it was one moment where everything clicked that I can specifically remember, yet I knew a lot of these ideas started to build up.

Then there probably was a moment where I was like, I made my decision, done, and then just had to figure it out. Yeah.

[Agi Keramidas]
Sure. You said earlier that achievement had become your identity. What I wanted to ask to relate it with someone listening right now, how can they tell whether that is the case for them that achievement has become their identity?

Because it can be subtle and it happens over time. Let's bring that to the present moment. How can we tell?

[Carla Caturia]
Yeah. I think a lot of it comes with your emotional state. You really aren't realizing it, but you're putting a lot of pressure on yourself and that replaces your presence.

You might be overthinking and overwhelmed and up at night. I'm not saying that you should, since we're talking career, not care about your career, but you should have that off button where I've given my all from nine to five or whatever it is. I've done the best that I possibly could.

I'm confident in what I did. Now it's time for me to be with my family, go to the gym, do all the things. I think there's that life balance as well as that perfectionism piece and that fear of failure.

We always want to do a good job. I'm not saying not to achieve, but to reflect on yourself. Am I achieving?

What is it costing me? If it's not costing me much because I have a great balanced life, wonderful. But if I've just become my career, then that's the problem.

[Agi Keramidas]
I think in a way, the people who are in this stage, deep down, they know. I think it's a matter of really bringing it more to the surface and realizing it that they are in a, let's say, imbalanced situation with their life. You said about what it is costing people.

Let's talk a little bit about that. What are the main things that you see people that acquiring this identity of achievement costs them? For me, when I think about it, the first thing that comes as an answer would be the lack of fulfillment, that inner sense of, you know, I'm peacefully doing what I'm meant to be doing with my life, which that's the best way I can explain it.

But add to that list, please.

[Carla Caturia]
Yeah, no, I definitely think that's part of it. I mean, if you are a person who loves your job and feels fulfilled and it doesn't become a job for you, fantastic. If you're someone that leads an amazing life and you have a job that you don't love, but it pays the bills and you don't pay that much mind to it, then that's fine too.

But if you have lost your curiosity, lost your joy, find yourself complaining, you know, just not as motivated or just purely motivated, maybe by money or something else that's this external things, that's where it can be. It can be tricky. That sense of fulfillment, that what I think it's also a doing something that's larger than yourself and not just working for a company that's bigger than you.

But if you work for a company or you have your own business, what are you doing beyond the daily tasks? Are you changing people's trajectory? Are you transforming them?

Are you supporting them? Are you providing something for the environment? I don't know, just something bigger than yourself.

And I think that's what you spoke about, where that fulfillment piece comes from. And the minute you stop having curiosity about it, the minute you kind of, it just becomes mundane. Oh, wait, is this really the road, the path I want to go down?

And if it still is, how can I make adjustments to myself in order to stay on that path, but in a more healthy way?

[Agi Keramidas]
That's great. You mentioned curiosity a couple of times. And I will come to that because for me, curiosity is an element that in my own journey, and I've seen it with others, but I will speak really for myself.

Curiosity was what led me to podcasting, for example, which I've been doing for over seven years now. It started with curiosity. And more than that, my desire to follow that curiosity and not just leave it as, oh, I'm curious about that, but taking action on it, despite not knowing anything about it or thinking that I have a strange Greek accent in my English, who would listen to me and keep on listening and things like that.

So let's talk about curiosity a little bit, and perhaps even more specifically than that, how one listening right now can take some step toward that curiosity that they may have.

[Carla Caturia]
Yeah, I think it can manifest in two different ways. You're saying, I don't know what you were doing prior to podcasting, but you decided to embark on a new journey of podcasting. So that's one way of, I'm curious what that would be like.

So starting something completely new, whether it's leaving your job, starting your own business, whether it's shifting jobs, getting a promotion, or it could just be within what you're doing right now. I'm curious if I handle this presentation this way, or I decide to ask questions in a different way. So I think it comes with not taking it so seriously.

And really, I work with a lot of peak performers. I work with a lot of kids, but they're athletes and performers. And I think one of the keys to having that peak performance and that flow state, and you can equate this to your job too, because just because it's a job doesn't mean you don't enjoy what you're doing.

You can get in a flow of whatever you might be creating at your job. And I think that curiosity is the first step to allow yourself to do that. Because oftentimes, it's, we're too busy.

I don't have time to do that. I can't meditate. I'm not going to go to the gym.

I don't have all these things that you... The wellness piece, we don't... But hey, I'm curious of what if I actually went to the gym each morning and committed to myself, would that affect my job performance even better?

Instead of, I don't have enough time to do it. I'm not even going to be curious about it. I'm just going to...

So I know I went in a couple different zones with that, but the curiosity is really the key to you starting to open up to basically a new life for yourself.

[Agi Keramidas]
Yeah. Wouldn't you say that it is just by starting something and you mentioned gym as an example, even more daily gym, which to me sounds a very ambitious goal, but I liked how you put it. I will say it as an example because it gives the power of consistency and doing something over time.

And after a while, you're looking forward going to the gym because it is part of what you do. So let's talk a little bit about that. And then I'm going to ask you something more practical, but let's finish off with this topic.

[Carla Caturia]
Yeah. I mean, I think curiosity. So like I spoke a little bit about flow and I mean, flow is just what we all want to be in all the time.

And it is not possible yet how much it's really about how many hours of the day can we spend in a powerful state versus how many hours a day in a less than powerful state. So I think it starts with that curiosity. We already spoke about fulfillment, having that passion and purpose.

And I think really challenging ourselves to improve and to have autonomy in our day and what we do and then really master whatever it is we are working on or what we're doing in a career, what we're doing in our lives. And I think without that curiosity, we put ourselves in a box and we're not open. And if we're not open and we're not challenging ourselves and we're moving to the next, I guess I would say like internal level, it isn't necessarily about achieving the next level as far as someone giving you an award or someone giving you a monetary incentive.

It's more of, I don't know, can I think differently about this or can I have a different perspective on this? Or when I go to work and I get annoyed, maybe I'm going to try not to get annoyed. I'm going to look at it a different way.

So I think it can be applied many ways. And I think it starts with that kind of just like, I wonder what this would be like. I wonder if this would be even better than I thought it would be.

[Agi Keramidas]
It's certainly a very powerful way to start a sentence, a question to yourself. It is a very strong beginning for a question into self-inquiry also, because some answer will come up when you start saying, I wonder what would this or that. Carla, you spoke a couple of times already about flow state and being in that flow, that powerful state.

For someone listening right now that would like to go there more often, what is something practical that you recommend one can do to go into that state more often or easily? But let's speak a bit more practical than the identity or the other more deeper layers.

[Carla Caturia]
Yeah, so I think it starts with daily and weekly habits, which your habits become your routine, your routine becomes your life. I mean, we talked about the gym, that's a simple one. But I think just take it one step back and then get into the habits.

The cycle of flow starts with struggle. You have to struggle. You have to try to be figuring this out.

Should I take this risk? Do I have the courage to do this? Whatever it might be.

And then releasing that and saying, okay, let's just take a job for instance. And you're working on a project and you work on it all morning. And then you've come to a point where you can't figure it out.

So then you go and you take your break and you, I don't know, go for a walk and you release it. And you notice it's that whole thing of like, I was in the shower and I had an idea. You have to release it and then come back to it.

And you tend to then step into that flow state. And your ideas start flowing, whether you're writing or you're creating. And then I think a lot of us forget also, once we come out of that flow state, we have to recover.

So we have to recharge our batteries. We have to do the things that matter for us, for wellness, and really create habits in our day that give us the time to take a break as well as recharge. So on a daily basis, all of these, to get into this flow and stay in this flow, there has to be gratitude.

There has to be time for ourselves. There has to be a good amount of sleep. And it's a lot of the basics.

Yet, before we jumped on this call, we talked for a minute about implementation. And that's the thing. It's not like you haven't heard that you need eight hours of sleep before.

That's not new. That's old news. But are you actually committing to yourself in doing that?

Are you taking a few minutes in the morning to just, I don't know, drink your coffee and say like, wow, I'm just so grateful for fill in the blank. So again, not groundbreaking, but the problem becomes is that we go, I don't really need to do that. I'm too busy.

Or that stuff doesn't work. Well, of course, it doesn't work if you don't implement it.

[Agi Keramidas]
Absolutely. And most people know what to do, but they don't do what they know. It's not, as you said, it's not groundbreaking.

Being in a state of gratitude or practicing some gratitude exercise or self-care and sleeping and eating properly, all these things contribute. And I think anyone would agree that, yes, I know, it makes sense. This is how it is.

Whether they're doing it or not, of course, that is a different topic. And that's, I think, that what I would like to perhaps help someone today that is not, that perhaps there is a little bit of a missing link there between listening to something like this, for example, and putting it into practice. So to a person like that, what is your message to her listening to us right now?

[Carla Caturia]
I think it has to start with small steps to go from zero to 60. You're going to maybe do something for a week and you're not going to continue. We all know that.

So do you have to run a marathon next week just because you said you want to start working out? No. But is it fair for you to show up for yourself 15 minutes a day and go for a walk?

Yeah, that's fair. So I think it's small bites. And it's also, it comes down to the action.

But if you don't have the belief, then the action, if you haven't made that decision, you don't believe you can do it, and you will do it, and you deserve to do it. And the belief is huge. Because if you just believe that it's not going to work, then why even bother taking the 15 minutes to go for a walk?

But if you truly step into it, and you're like, I'm grateful that I have these 15 minutes, I'm going to commit to myself, this is what I'm going to do right now. And then you start to stack evidence that you can. So it might be daunting for you in this moment to take 15 minutes, because you may have failed before.

But if you continue to look at how you fail, then you're just going to fail again. But if you start to look at, oh, wow, I saw a bird out there when I went for a walk. And then I met a new neighbor, whatever it is.

Oh, you're stacking evidence that this is a fun activity, and my brain likes this. And then your brain starts to rewire itself for, I can do this, this is good for me versus I'm a failure.

[Agi Keramidas]
Yeah. Yeah. I like that, the stacking evidence as you do it.

And what came up for me when you were saying that, is that when you set something like that, a new habit in you that you want to implement, set yourself up for success, not failure. So put something realistic that makes it very easy for you to do it, or very difficult not to do it. So if 15 minutes is a lot, put five.

I don't know, whatever it is that would make it very achievable for you, easily achievable. Say, of course I can do that. And then you can build up with this rather than saying, I'm going to, and setting a very difficult or more difficult to achieve once that initial motivation wears off.

So I like that idea.

[Carla Caturia]
Yeah. And I think you have to look at your day because I've sat with people before who say they have no time to do all this. And I found literally like four hours in their day that they can do, that they can spend.

I mean, you can spend the full four hours doing all these things we're talking about, but we kind of tell ourselves these stories. And if you don't work on your limiting beliefs and start telling yourself a different story. So there's a lot of time we don't realize that we spend doing things that are taking us away from our goals.

And well, one, we have to have goals. And then two, what are the actions and activities and things that are going to take us towards our goals? And who are we spending our time with?

And all of those things, if you want to get to the next level, emotionally, socially, whatever it is, then you have to look at, break it down to your weekly and your daily routines.

[Agi Keramidas]
Carla, I'm going to switch gears. We've talked about this for a while now, but there is another topic that you talk about, and I would like to go into that a bit as well. And that is the element of nervous system regulation or emotional regulation.

And let's talk about the problem that there is there and many people don't realize. And then we can discuss about some practical methods one can improve. Mm hmm.

[Carla Caturia]
Yeah, I think your state is always number one. So your emotional state, you can't create from a disempowered state. And I don't you know, you can't create anything you but you know, so emotional regulation, you starting off your day in a state of gratitude, moving your body, positive thinking, and it's not as easy as it's not just positive thinking, but it's true belief.

I think all of that has to come before you can, you know, and that has to be start with habits. But before you can truly like, begin to build a solid foundation and transform. So you need you need to have the awareness of, oh, that doesn't feel right.

Okay, I'm starting to go down this road. And before I spiral, let me make sure I jump into an activity that's gonna, that's gonna get me back to where I need to be emotionally. But I think we oftentimes ignore that we just push through and then we're grouchy, or we're upset, or we're frustrated, and then we spiral.

And, but I think in that moment, we have to make the decision. But prior to that, our proactive strategies, such as breath work, such as yoga, such as meditation, such as praying, um, moving our bodies, workouts, you know, the list goes on journaling, there's so many strategies we can do. We don't have to do the same thing every day.

But we have to make sure that we have these strategies in our daily routines. And then the more we do that, the less time we have for the frustration, anger, and all those other emotions. And then you start to realize like, oh, that that old me of overwhelming anxiety, I mean, it pops up, it's not like it goes away completely.

But you're not going to spend a lot of time in that zone anymore, you're going to be over here in the, like, I feel pretty good zone.

[Agi Keramidas]
And what I like you call them strategies. I think the when you dedicate some time every day into doing these strategies, as you called it, think of it sometimes the equivalent of putting on in the morning, if especially when you do it, putting on an armor and getting ready to go out to the, the battle of the day, metaphorically speaking. I think it is, it builds and that's why I'm bringing it up because emotional regulation, when you really need to have the emotional regulation is not in the morning when you're writing in your journal.

And it is during the day when something unexpected happens when chaos strikes in a sense, and then you are your emotional urges come up really quickly and really powerfully. So when you have started doing those practices every day in the morning, when you have the ability to, you know, be in an environment that you can build that up, then it is so much easier. Of course, you will still be there will still be the emotions that come up, but we will be better coped to handle them.

I'm trying to choose my words carefully there and not change them or anything like that. But handle the emotional surge that may be coming up.

---
[Carla Caturia]
Yeah, it's kind of like almost like building your emotional shield, you know, and it's not, it's not like you're putting that shield on because you're protecting yourself per se, but you kind of are, you're protecting your energy, but you're also, you know, like, I don't know, when I walk into a room, I want to project out this positive, happy energy that is just flowing. I don't want to walk into a room and the opposite. And I think, you know, the key is, like you said, um, really just like doing that when you don't need to.

So if you already need to build your emotional armor, it's, you've already got, you've already passed that point. It's, it's the daily practice of, and you really have to decide like, who do I want to become? Like, what do I want my, my editing identity to look like?

What do I want my next, who do I want to be in three months, six months, a year from now? Like if I want to be different, okay, so what am I going to do today to make that a small shift? Um, and I think, yeah, really having the awareness to, and starting off with just recognizing your patterns, because if you start to recognize your patterns, instead of blaming the guy next to you at work for he's so annoying and that's the problem.

No, it's not the problem. He's there for a reason. He's trying to teach you a lesson.

And once you learn that lesson and you learn your patterns, then you start to have more power over your, yourself and your emotions and your brain.

[Agi Keramidas]
I think in a way, uh, the key to, to dealing with all these situations and solving all these issues is you've mentioned the word a few times is having the awareness to actually see them as they are, uh, and observe yourself, recognize the patterns, as you said, but the awareness itself, having the awareness is, uh, I believe personally the, the utmost key to that. So what's your number one tip for building one's awareness?

[Carla Caturia]
Well, I think it starts with like listening to your body. Number one, like if you feel something in your gut or like that, you know, that intuition piece, if something feels off, you have to start questioning yourself in that moment. You know, what, what is the reason why this is, is happening right now?

Is it, you know, and then as soon, you know, you have to shoot, you have to like listen to what's so right away, do you notice that you blame someone else or you projected something or you, what, what were you thinking in that moment? And that's the hardest for people. Cause it's easy to go, go say like, Oh, I had a panic attack or I, I don't know, got angry and yelled at someone.

Well, that's what you, that's the action you took, but you have to rewind that and then go to, you know, what, what triggered me? And, and then now how do I handle that? And so like learning, having the awareness comes from really listening to your thoughts.

So it's part of the reason why affirmations work and affirmations alone don't work just saying it one time, but really believing in having the gratitude and feeling the feeling, believing that I am wonderful. I am beautiful. I am great, but like believing it, not just saying it.

And the more you believe those positive thoughts about yourself and about your surroundings, the less you have those triggering thoughts. So it's, it's just, you can't think two thoughts at once. So those, those for lack of a better term, positive thoughts and affirmations are replacing those negative ones.

And that's where you, where you get that self-belief from. And then once you believe it, okay, like you're unstoppable, but until that point, you're going to just keep triggering, triggering, triggering, triggering. So yeah, awareness and, and then being honest with yourself, like, you know, just got to be honest with yourself.

You know, that's, that's the key.

[Agi Keramidas]
That's very important. And sometimes, uh, not, not talked about so much to be honest, seeing yourself, uh, yeah, as things are not as you would like them to be. It's, it's, it's not easy to be objective about ourselves.

I know myself included. I get it. Yeah, of course.

I will. I will raise my hand up as well.

[Carla Caturia]
Absolutely.

[Agi Keramidas]
Before I start wrapping up this fascinating conversation we had today, where would you like to direct the listener or the viewer of this conversation that wants to learn more about you?

[Carla Caturia]
Yeah. If they want to learn more about me, um, I'm on Instagram, Facebook, it's an easy place to find me. I have a YouTube page.

Um, I have a free course that I just created for teenagers. Uh, so there's a lot of places out there. I just kind of like to provide a lot of information and, um, hopefully, you know, people can pick up some tips, strategies, things they can learn about themselves.

Um, so it's all under my name, Dr. Carla Kateria, you can search me up.

[Agi Keramidas]
Thank you. And thank you for, uh, the, the breadth of topics that, because we talked about quite a few things in a short amount of time. And I don't, and I also think we didn't just scratch the surface.

There were some deeper elements here and there during the conversation. So, uh, we discussed about curiosity, awareness, uh, fulfillment, also um, flow state habits, you know, emotional seed, uh, so many things. What, uh, I actually want to thank you for sharing all this with us today and to wish you all the very best with your work and the change that you're making in the country, your contribution.

Thank you so much. I appreciate that. Oh, thank you.

I will leave it to you for your parting words. And what final message would you say to someone that has listened to us for the last half an hour? What is, uh, what would you like to leave them with?

[Carla Caturia]
Yeah. I mean, I would, I would just encourage them to take action on one thing. They don't have to do 10 different things.

You don't have to implement a whole new routine, but is there one thing, you know, you can commit to for yourself this week? You know, like could be any of the strategies we talked about anything else in their lives that they may realize they need to shift and they don't have to go from zero to 60, but just, you know, take one small action every day and built upon that. And before you know it, one small action becomes a habit, a routine.

And now, you know, you're stepping into the new you. So if you're interested in growing yourself, just starts with one small, small action today.

[Agi Keramidas]
Thank you for listening to this conversation with Dr. Carla Caturia. I hope it has given you a fresh perspective on the hidden emotional cost of high achievement. One practical action tip to remember from today is to choose one small habit that you know will support your well-being, whether it's taking a 15 minute walk, practicing gratitude, or simply pausing to notice your thoughts and then commit to do it every day this week.

Small, consistent actions build evidence that you can trust yourself. And over time, these actions become the habits that transform your life. Join us every Monday for in-depth conversations and every Thursday for shorter episodes with insights and tools you can use.

If you appreciate what we're doing here, the small, quick favor I'm asking of you is to click the subscribe button. Until next time, stand out, don't fit in.