#380 How to cultivate your consistency and turn your passion into inevitable success, with Rob Dix.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION
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Please note that while an effort is made to provide an accurate transcription, errors and omissions may be present. No part of this transcription can be referenced or reproduced without permission.
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Rob Dix  0:00  
I think a bit of a theme in what I've done over the last 10 plus years has just been trying stuff because it seems interesting not being sure where it's going to go. And then it ends up going somewhere really cool.

Agi Keramidas  0:17  
You're listening to personal development mastery, the podcast that empowers you with the simple and consistent actions you need to create a life of purpose and fulfilment. I'm your host Keramidas and this is episode 380. Have you ever wondered how a deep passion for what you you do can transform the mundane grind into an exciting journey to success? My guest today, Rob Dix is the co host of one of the UK's most popular business podcasts, the property podcast. I have been following Rob since 2016. And his insights have been invaluable to me so it was a privilege to finally connect with him on the podcast. During the conversation, you will discover how cultivating your curiosity and embracing your passion makes consistency and discipline easy. This way, success becomes inevitable. You will also listen to me sharing for the first time publicly how Rob D inspired me to start writing my first book 88 actionable insights for life. Before we dive right into this fascinating conversation. If you enjoy listening and appreciate what we're doing here, the simple quick favour I'm asking of you is to click the subscribe button. Now let's get started. 

Agi Keramidas  1:54  
Today, I am thrilled to speak with Rob, Dix. Rob, you are a Sunday Times bestselling author, investor, co founder of the property hub. And you are also the co-presenter of one of the UK's most popular business podcasts, the property podcast that has been running for over 10 years now. You are passionate about entrepreneurship, sharing insights through your podcasts and books and helping others succeed in the realm of property investing. Rob, welcome. It's such a delight to speak with you today.

Rob Dix  2:32  
Thank you, thank you for having me.

Agi Keramidas  2:33  
I will add here to that introduction a way that I personally I have been a follower of your work since 2016. And third time I remembered, I was been listening to the property podcast on my commute to work at that time every day. And I always found your knowledge and your outlook on life. Very inspiring. So I'm just acknowledging that as my own personal addition to the introduction, that's why I'm so thrilled to have you here today.

Rob Dix  3:11  
Thank you. It's great you've been listening for so long.

Agi Keramidas  3:14  
If you know if anyone had told me eight years ago, when I was listening, that was probably one of the first podcasts I ever listened to in 2016. If someone had told me that, eight years later, I would be having you as a guest on my podcast, let's say you must be crazy. But I would like to explore today some topics that you don't often discuss in your podcast. So rather than talk about investing in property, I would like to discuss the mindset, the habits, the consistency of doing the the little actions or taking the small action, in a way, consider that I don't know about you, I consider that the foundation work. You know, everything else can be built. So let's start with that. Do you think it is indeed the foundation? The

Rob Dix  4:08  
key for me at least has been finding something that I really enjoy doing. And so consistency isn't a chore. Like I'm not good at being consistent on things I don't want to do. So. It's so uh, yeah, I agree that that being consistent taking the right actions over time, is what you have to do. I think some people can force themselves to do it. I can't I just had to find something where I wanted to do it.

Agi Keramidas  4:31  
Would you say that there is a mixture of self discipline and entitle are you so lucky only to be doing the things that consistently I mean, the things that you enjoy doing? Yeah,

Rob Dix  4:44  
I don't. I think I come across as being a discipline self discipline person, but I'm not convinced I really am. I think I've just been lucky to be able to find things that I want to show up and do. And I've got a track record. Have giving up on plenty of things that I don't like to think that's really the secret to it.

Agi Keramidas  5:04  
Probably. And I will I will keep that as an observation that consistency is so much easier when you love doing what you're doing. But I will I will say indeed that I do consider you from following you are very disappointed, consistent person. So it's, it's great to hear the other option, the other part of it. Before we go into the the nitty gritty of that robot wanted to ask something I often ask my guests and that's in their story in the journey, was there some kind of a key defining moment, something that changed everything for you in terms of factions or mindset at some point? I'm sure there are a few. But something may be relevant to this conversation.

Rob Dix  5:52  
I think a bit of a theme in what I've done over the last 10 plus years has just been trying stuff because it seems interesting, not being sure where it's going to go, and then ended up going somewhere really cool. So I started a podcast about property probably about 12 years ago, because I wanted to know about property. And I wanted to know about podcasting. I didn't know that much about either of them. But I wanted to figure out how it works. And so I started that podcast, and on the third episode of that podcast, I met someone else called Rob, he went on to be my co host of the property podcast for now the last 10 years. And that that came about just because I was kind of following my curiosity. Same with my most recent book, the price of money. I started writing that because I wanted to understand how the economy works. And the way that I understand things to check, I understand that Mr. Write them down. And it was only towards the very end of that process that I decided to publish that book. And it's gone on to do very well. But this is. So I suppose in terms of like, your your key moments and things like that. I think there have been but they've always originated from just doing whatever seemed interesting at the time without having any set expectation of where it was going to go. Like

Agi Keramidas  7:16  
what you just said into the thing you said about trying stuff and you use the word follow your curiosity. And that's something that I believe it's very important to as a starting point, and then it is quite similar how I started my podcast, it was following curiosity very quickly. Afterwards, I realised how happy I was and how energised I was when I when I was doing it. I had a boss. So I thought, Okay, let me do more of this. And here we are like, for me, it's six years. There are a couple of things. I You already answered me to some extent about the why you started the podcast and I'm happy with that answer. You said the you you got inspired you followed your curiosity. Is there something else you wanted to add to that with?

Rob Dix  8:09  
Yeah, it was then when when we started the property podcast, which is the one that I've been doing now with the other Rob for 10 years. Rob had, I always credited Rob with a vision like he he had far more of an idea about where it could go, what could be built off the back of it. For me, it was just, I like talking about this subject, I find it easier to talk about it with someone else than doing it so low. So great, though there really wasn't much more of a thought very close to it. So I think he had the vision. But the I think we we were lucky because it was we were we enjoyed turning up to talk to each other. And it didn't really matter if anyone else was listening. As it happened. We started so early that we managed to attract listeners quite quickly because there wasn't much competition. Like if you wanted to hear about property on a podcast, we were at you, you didn't matter if you liked this, you were stuck with us. So we did actually kind of get off the ground quite fast. But I think it really I think I think Rob knew where it could go. But for me, it was just like, this is a fun thing to do.

Agi Keramidas  9:11  
I think from the way it sounds, it's great to hear the different dynamics or the contrast you say one having the vision and thinking of that the other enjoying and talking about something that he wanted to learn, apart from the fact that you know, at that time you said that you were the only or pretty much the only property podcast that someone could listen to. What else do you think has contributed to this? success of the podcast is great success of it.

Rob Dix  9:48  
I put it down to three things. first mover advantage. I'm going to say it again because it was a huge head start like if you tried to do the same again. It would be harder and I think much harder. I think it's important to acknowledge Start, because it's always easy to go, oh, yeah, we did this, and we're so great. But there's a lot of timing to it. The second is consistency, you've already brought up consistency. We have not missed an episode in 10 years, every single Thursday, including Christmas Day, including New Year's Day, including where we got children being born and all kinds of stuff going on. There's always an episode comes out. And I think that matters, not in the fact that there'd be 1000s of the people of people around the country going what is going on, if it was a Thursday morning, and that wasn't the property broadcast. But I think on some level people, people notice and respect the consistency. And it's important to ask keeping that streak is important to us and just showing up and getting better. Like, if you go back and listen to the first episodes, they were rubbish. So just given getting those represent and getting better over time. So that's the second thing. And I think the third is the rapport between the two of us. Because I think that's a It's a magic ingredient in podcasting. All my favourite podcasts are Duo's, I think pulling off an interview show is really hard, you will know this. Doing solo episodes, I think it's hard to hold someone's attention when it's when it's someone's when it's just someone talking away on your own and trying to sound interesting for half an hour or whatever it is, I think the duo format is really good. And we're lucky that we've got a good rapport between us. So I'd say that those are the three drivers to the success we've had.

Agi Keramidas  11:26  
I can certainly understand what you're saying about the rapport between you two, because it's really enjoyable, you know, to listen and the sense of humour and the banter and bouncing back and forth. It's sometimes I wonder how it's very precise where one stops and the other person like you, you have a signal that okay, I'm going to stop now in the other talks. Yeah,

Rob Dix  11:52  
having a producer helps, because you take out all the time that it doesn't work. But for the most part, yeah, we just been doing it so long, we can just kind of read each other about I guess.

Agi Keramidas  12:03  
If you enjoy this episode, can you find one person you think would find it useful and share it with them? I'd really appreciate it. It helps the show grow. And you will also be adding value to people you care about. Thank you. And now let's get back to the episode. 

Agi Keramidas  12:22  
I'm going to change direction a little bit. I mean, I could be talking about the podcast or generally podcast, the whole conversation. But let's note I wanted to discuss there was actually in your newsletter not so long ago, it was when I actually reached out to you and invited you to this there was something that you had you had written there that I found very reassuring. I found it very inspiring. I mean reassuring. The sense that when someone that has achieved this level of success with your business with the board custom, Shawn, like you have says that, and I'm going to say in a moment was it is done. Really, I think it is very cool, encouraging for others that are on the journey. However, they have not seen yet. Maybe the results or the outcomes that one might expect after a period of time. And I will paraphrase a little bit what you were saying there on the newsletters. But you were saying that now that you have found yourself, you know, having I think you've said decent success in some projects, you have been looking for ways to achieve this kind of success in other things faster. Escape the multi year grind. And you had reached that the conclusion that this is not how it goes, it's it doesn't happen like this, the answer is to just start and stay consistent. And that was actually your word, consistent, stay consistent, and wait longer than you would like for the eventual and inevitable results. So I think in that phrase, it included many things there. I don't want to analyse it myself. I would prefer if you give me your comments on on this. Yeah, and I

Rob Dix  14:26  
think the there's always like there's always the temptation to take a shortcut, right? Everyone has that everyone wants to get there faster. And when you've I think you can think like when you've achieved something, you built something up. It's easy to for your ego to go, I deserve to be able to and maybe I even should be able to take this and apply it somewhere else. I should have an advantage so for taking this and sort of parlaying it into this other thing, but a lot of the time I'm, that turns out not to be true. And there are multiple reasons for that. But one of the reasons I think, although I recognised myself at least, is when you start something, you're normally not that good at it. And so whatever. So when we started podcasting, we weren't very good. When we then got to a point by doing it over and over again, that we were okay. When we started on YouTube, we weren't very good. So it's easy to go, oh, well, you know, we've got this podcast, therefore, we should be able to take the same formula, the same audiences, same whatever, and build a YouTube channel. But we weren't very good. It's like completely different mediums. Of course, we don't deserve to do well straightaway. And there's no way to get good, other than to spend the time putting the reps in doing it again and again. And I think that that's becomes hard to, for your ego to come to terms with it. And I think that gets harder once you've had success in one area. But you have to, I eventually got to a point of embracing it, and go, well, actually, I wouldn't want to get there faster, because if by some magic, I did get there faster, then I would have some kind of eyeballs on what I'm doing, I'd have some degree of prominence in this thing. And I still wouldn't be good at it. So lots of people will see me being rubbish is better if people didn't see me being rubbish and and it takes time to time to get you there. But then the final thing is I sort of said the eventual eventual and inevitable result. Because I think it is inevitable. If you spend that long doing something, you have to succeed. And in the end, almost because you can't do something for that long and still be bad at it. And if you didn't enjoy it, and you weren't seeing some improvement and getting some rewards from it, you would have given up. So purely by persisting for a decade, almost by default, you have to have some success. Otherwise, you wouldn't still be there after a decade.

Agi Keramidas  16:50  
It's what to say, to appreciate the journey, rather than of course, keep your eye on the destination. But obviously the journey because it is the journey that we experienced the destination. I don't know if you agree it's usually very quickly replaced by another destination if you start to look at it right away. Yeah.

Rob Dix  17:11  
It's all it's all about the journey, isn't it? And you think you I think, well, it's easy to, it's always easy to convince yourself that it's about the destination and you need to have the you need to have the destination, I think a lot of the time as a motivating factor. But I've found that as soon as I achieve a thing, I don't care anymore. Because I'm on to the next thing immediately. I'm sure it'll be healthier to take time and celebrate and acknowledge and blah, blah, blah. But the reality is, that's just not how it is.

Agi Keramidas  17:40  
What the what advice you would give some to someone listening right now and finding ourselves being on on the journey. And maybe getting impatient with all impatient is one thing when you get unsure about this, then probably much more important because it could jeopardise the progress that one has made. So what advice would you give to a person or listen,

Rob Dix  18:07  
it's hard. It's hard to come up with something actionable for this was like, the obvious thing, the only thing is to find, to find enjoyment in the process. Because, like I said, that's what we that's what we've had with the podcast for all this time. And I enjoyed, I enjoyed the process of trying to get better at YouTube, I enjoy the process of trying to write a book. And all of those things are very frustrating endeavours, the whole point of being on any journey is it's going to be frustrating at times. But I think if you can expect that, and then just find fine little hints of success to keep yourself going and judge yourself against how you were six months ago, rather than judging yourself against how someone else is today. Because if you're judging yourself against other people, they're always going to be people better than you at whatever it is you're doing. And so that's just, you're just gonna see the chasm between where you are and where you want to be. But if you're judging yourself for yourself against your past self, and you're just looking for those little indications, even if it's only tiny, it's just like, it's just a message from from someone saying that they enjoyed it or whatever, I think those are the things you've got to hang on to, and ideally, find other people who are doing the same thing to hold each other accountable and keep each other encouraged. That's not something that I've done in any of the realms that we've talked about. But I've started to see the benefits of having a peer group recently and I think that can be something very powerful. Thank

Agi Keramidas  19:40  
you and that was that was actually a actionable I believe so. Thank you for your answer. Let's change gears for a moment that there was something I wanted to discuss about your book, actually the price of money and there is something else for Well, congratulations from the you know that the best selling title, there was something again that I read in your newsletter, which I have referred to a couple of times before. And I probably will again during this conversation, and you said something that it's been 10 years since the time that you self published your first book. And now, it feels like you have become a, quote unquote, proper author having a book like that. So my question, my personal question here always, how does that feel? How is it different than the other numerous books that you have put on?

Rob Dix  20:41  
How's it different? I think the difference is actually in how other people perceive it, rather than me. Because the so I'm published by a proper publisher now. And so that means that I know the cover looks a bit nicer. It's available in bookshops, when previously it wasn't. But nothing's nothing's that different about nothing feels different. To me, nothing was different in the process of how I wrote the book, the book isn't necessarily any better than any of my previous ones. But it just, it looks different from the outside and having that badge of having that that badge of like having a penguin sitting on the book like is a tiny little bird. But it makes a big difference in terms of what other people think. And so like, from that, like, I think is that was a contributing factor to giving us column in the Sunday Times, and then being in the Sunday Times has led to being asked to do TV stuff, and all this kind of thing. And it's just kind of this weird interaction with the mainstream legacy media world where it still means something to have that badge. So that's, that's the reason I went down the publishing route. Because it's like, I know what self publishing looks like, I know what success is possible. Going with a proper publisher might be exactly the same, but it at least creates the possibility of other things happening off the back of it. So it's a it's a known downside, uncapped, upside type situation. And so yeah, it's just funny people, people look at it in a different way, even though the actual products is literally the same. Like I self published the book, then I got published, it came out the publisher is the same book, but people look at it in a completely different way.

Agi Keramidas  22:20  
Yeah, I suppose from my point of view, there is some kind of Christie's having a book in, you know, what a stone's throw whatever, compared to just Amazon. But yeah, there is a but apart from that, no, I appreciate your answer, that it's more about how others perceive it rather than how Zoo? Yes, it

Rob Dix  22:40  
kind of makes sense when you think about it, because you've like, it shows that someone somewhere has looked at it and said, This is okay. And so and everyone, there's, there's far more than anyone could ever read or listen to, or watch or whatever, right. So you've having some kind of gatekeeper, some kind of filter, someone who you can look at and go, I must be okay, that's, that's gonna count for something.

Agi Keramidas  23:04  
I will stay in the topical book for a moment. And I wanted to actually I'm going to share a little story here, which very, very few people know about. So it's probably the first time that goes public, as that's what I wanted to express some appreciation. And let me show you I'm sure you recognise this book. And one of the first ones so for those that, only here listening to us right now, it's called 100 property investment tips. So my little story is that I mean, I had that book since 2017, or something like that. I wanted to write a book myself, since I went into my own personal development journey, which was roughly around that time and 2016. And I never knew what to write or how to present I knew it would have to be to do something with personal development, which had been my passion, learning it and teaching it but I never was sure of what to write and it was a year close to two years ago, I was just idly looking at my bookshelf, you know, when you see your the sides of the books, and I saw that book there and 100 private investment themes. And the idea came to me immediately that Aha, I don't have to write a book that has you know, cohesion, and I mix all the elements that I want to present in a structured way. I can present it like like this, like, peeps, so my initial working title of the book was 100 personal development tips. Eventually, the book worked his way and then it became 88 actionable insights for life. But I want to thank you really for that. inspiration that you you gave me why your book without your knowledge. But you know, I wanted to acknowledge you and tribute as a mentor and someone who gave me that initial spark on how to write the book.

Rob Dix  25:24  
Thank you. You're welcome. And we probably nick the idea of someone else to start with, like, I remember that. We come up with all our best. Everything's recycled, isn't it? So? Yeah, that's for

Agi Keramidas  25:34  
sure. But for me, it was important, you know, to be able to thank you like that, because it feels great absolute that thinks. Yeah, there are 100 of this or radiate have that in many forms. But for me, it was the catalyst, you know, to express something that I didn't know how to express. There is one, I will ask one more question about the book, because it was something I again, I read, you were talking you were referring that about the last 10% of the book, you know, you have the 90% of the book. So takes 90% of the time and 10% of the book that I think it takes the other 90% of the time. So tell me a bit about that.

Rob Dix  26:22  
Yeah, well, you might have had some insight into this yourself. It's, yeah, it's, it's painful, like you think, I don't know what it is, you think you think you've written the book. And the process normally goes, you'll to like write a draft, you'll think it's okay, we'll give it to someone, they'll point out the 400 ways it's not okay, then you'll go rewrite it again. Realising that, yes, they were completely right, you'll write it again, then you'll get do a draft, it's actually quite good. That's actually quite good. Now, we'll just make a few tweaks. And those tweaks go on forever. And it's so annoying, because, for me at least, like, I'm not a natural finisher, I've, I get my enjoyment from starting stuff. And so by the time the a decent draft is done, I've had my reward at that point. And then it is his grind to get through actually finish off all the last bits and get the books as painful. So I think it's worth acknowledging because if you obviously, if you're aware of it, then you can find you can least be prepared for it and go, Okay, this is part of the process. And if possible, maybe partner up with someone where it's more naturally their skill set and get some help from them. But yeah, I I love starting books. I love starting books. I don't mind writing books, I hate finishing books.

Agi Keramidas  27:45  
I'm glad that you have gone past that, at least with some of the books and you find them because it's Yeah, yeah, if when they are unfinished, no one can read them. So you can't really make the impact or influence others. Yeah, I will change this. Again, Rob. I mean, I have the so many things that come to my mind. There were a couple of things that I wanted to find out. Because I don't remember ever hearing the answer. I'm sure you have said it. But again, it's probably not very common. And one is the the your nickname, the property geek that you are referred to for a long time. Now. I will tell us what does this title mean to you? And how does it reflect your passion for property? Oh,

Rob Dix  28:41  
I don't remember there being an amazing reason for it. I think it's just like, I think just a bit of a bit of branding. Like it's better to something like that is more memorable than just the name of someone you've never heard of. So I think it was kind of it. But then there, I think I like to take a somewhat geeky approach to things in terms of like really understanding them. So like they're, like, there's loads of ways to do property, right? There's loads of ways to do everything. But in property you can, like you can really, you can really dive in and you can really be hands on, you can just get out there and negotiate, you can just leave there are loads of different personality types and skill sets you can use. Mine was more analytical. And it was about like trying to really understand the the fundamentals of how it all works and coming at it from a numbers point of view. So that's yeah, it was that's, that's why it's accurate. But the purpose of it, I think was a bit of branding. But it's stuck

Agi Keramidas  29:38  
in I think it's you still signed us the proper thinking with and let's there's one other thing, resetting with your background. I found out I didn't know until recently that you have a background in psychology and cognitive neuroscience How has this background influenced your approach in investing? And what you do? I think

Rob Dix  30:09  
I always had that interest and not back. This was like, what, 20 years ago or something, I studied this. And so at the time, I think psychology was a lot less mainstream. Now a load of the stuff that I was learning about back then is like turned up in bestsellers by Malcolm Gladwell and people like that a lot. All the kinds of concepts are very well known in a way that they weren't back then. And lots of people because those are better. Lots of people obviously find this stuff interesting in the way that I did back then. But I think just having that having the understanding of how, like, everything is, I mean, this is ultimate cliche, but everything comes down to people, doesn't it like property is clearly very much about people. It's the most personal investment I think you can make. But it's the same for everything. And people are weird, and an understanding that is helpful and not expecting the world to work in a mechanistic way. And but I think that's really why property stuck with me in a way that lots of other things didn't. It's like, it's that it's that people aspect that made it more that kind of caught, kept my attention more than investment in the stock market or anything else. But then, by the time I did get to thinking about the markets and the economy and everything else, it's important to remember that that's all about psychology as well, like if you think about things like booms and crashes like that, but that's largely psychology, like at a mass level, and just like, and for everything that's going on in the world, everyone has different views about what is happening and why it's happening filtered through their own psychology, there is no objective way that that this is the case, this is why it's happened. Everyone is just some 10 people have been given exactly the same set of facts and generate different explanations for what that means and why it's come to me. And I think that's really useful to keep in mind. Just have that thing that well, this might be what I think, but that doesn't mean it's true. And someone else could be thinking something completely different. So that's quite helpful.

Agi Keramidas  32:07  
Thank you. It's, it's useful to understand like that, boss that what you said about the people that and, you know, communication and negotiation, all these things. And what you were just saying right now, there is, there are two quick questions that I always ask my guests, Rob, to the end of the conversation before, before I ask them, What is the best place for someone to connect or find out more about what you do.

Rob Dix  32:43  
So if someone's interested in property, then go to property hub dotnet, you'll find the podcast and a newsletter that I write and all manner other things. If you're not so interested in property, then you can go to my website, Rob dicks.com, or OBD. IX? Because that's where you'll find my newsletter and writings about random other subjects.

Agi Keramidas  33:03  
Yes, I will said already about the newsletter. Thank you, Rob. And I have done two last quick questions. And the first one is What does personal development mean to you?

Rob Dix  33:22  
An interesting question. And I think personal development to me just means it means always kind of always, always pushing yourself a little bit and not being content. So there's, I think it's important to try and hold two contradictory things in mind at the same time. So that being being satisfied with your life and grateful for your life, and grateful for the wonderful things that have happened to you and everything else. Super, super, super important. But also, you've got to be a bit dissatisfied, because you've got to want more, whether that's more more knowledge, or more fitness or more relationships, and more something. And so, of course, the way to get any of those things, it's not to sit around hoping that it just falls into your lap, it's to go out and do something yourself to make it happen. And so that's I think, where That's where personal development comes in for me. So it's just doing that doing that work on yourself to get yourself a little bit more of what you want and to see what you're capable of. Thank

Agi Keramidas  34:30  
you. And one hypothetical question. If you could go back in time and meet your 18 year old self, what's one piece of advice you would give him?

Rob Dix  34:41  
Well, I know they'd ignore it. So that's okay. You can say anything, right? Because isn't that the whole point like 18 year olds, you can tell them anything. They don't get to listen. I so I had a lot of fun. In my 20s does work in the music industry. It was good. Right. But it was I don't think it was until my 30s that I started getting a bit more deliberate about the choices I was making. And I think there's obviously, like your 20s is when you've typically got the fewest commitments and the most energy. So that's where I would encourage myself even though I wouldn't, to be to think things through a bit more to think about, think about where I wanted to end up, I have a more deliberate plan in place for how to get there. Because I've, I have, like I said, right back at the beginning, I've just kind of followed whatever seems interesting. And that's ended up in a really good place. But I think that I know people now who are like that, right? So where do I want to be? 40? Well, that means my 30s be here by 25. I need to be here, what's gonna get me there? What career choices can I make, etc, etc, and do all that, and I, I think that's probably the way to do it being more in being more intentional about about where you want to end up and making use of all that time and energy that you've got, I encourage myself to do more of that.

Agi Keramidas  36:07  
Robot want to thank you very much for this conversation. We had I really enjoyed it. And it was a real pleasure to have you on the show today, I want to wish you the very best with both personally and professionally with what you do. And I will leave it to you for your last parting words.

Rob Dix  36:28  
On the spot. Ah, I don't think I've got it great words of wisdom. So I'll just just say, thank you. It's really cool to to hear that we played some small part in what you've been doing. And isn't that isn't that the cool thing about all of this, you just do stuff and you have no idea how it's going to affect someone and it just happened in really random and unpredictable way. So I'm glad that we played a part in that and congratulations on everything you've done.

Agi Keramidas  36:52  
And before I end today's episode, an open invitation to you listening right now. I invite you to find me on social media and send me a direct message about anything you prefer. You can tell me who your favourite guest has been so far, or who you would like me to interview next or what topic you'd like to hear. So drop me a line and I look forward to chatting with you. Until next time, stand out don't fit in!