#384 Change Made Easy: How to make personal transformation enjoyable and sustainable today, with Paul Levitin.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION
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Please note that while an effort is made to provide an accurate transcription, errors and omissions may be present. No part of this transcription can be referenced or reproduced without permission.
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Paul Levitin  0:00  
Are you enthusiastic about the change that you're going to make? Not just the result? This is the key here. It is not. Are you enthusiastic about losing 20 pounds? Everyone wants that. Are you enthusiastic about being a business owner? Who wouldn't want that? Are you enthusiastic about being a millionaire? The I call these magic wand goals. Like if you could wave a magic wand and have it handed to you, you'd say yes, I'll accept that I will take being rich. I will take being skinny or fit or whatever it is. The question is, are you enthusiastic about the action steps that you have to take to get there.

Agi Keramidas  0:38  
You are listening to personal development mastery, the podcast that empowers you with the simple and consistent actions you need to create a life of purpose and fulfilment. I'm your host Agi Keramidas and this is episode 384. By listening to this episode, today, you will learn how we can make the process of personnel change not only effective, but also enjoyable and easier to sustain over time. You will also discover the easier framework for consistency in habit formation, which emphasising making the process enjoyable. And you will also find out which is the single most important ingredient to lasting change and ultimate success. Before we dive into this fascinating conversation, if you enjoy listening and appreciate what we're doing here, the simple quick favour I'm asking of you is to click the subscribe button. Now let's get started. 

Agi Keramidas  1:49  
It is my pleasure to speak with Paul Levitin. Paul, you are a certified behavioural change specialist, self confidence coach and host of the change made easy podcast. With over a decade of experience, you dive deep into the essence of Jane's aiming to unlock unlimited confidence and eliminate self sabotage. Through your podcast you educate, inspire and empower your listeners to not only succeed in their quest for change, but to do it with ease. Paul, welcome to the show for the second time, it's such a pleasure to speak with you again.

Paul Levitin  2:28  
Thank you so much for having me Agi. And it's always a pleasure to talk to you on my podcast or on your podcast and our calls, whatever it is, I always enjoy it. So I'm sure today is going to be a good one as well.

Agi Keramidas  2:38  
Absolutely. I was about to say also that because we've had a few now podcast conversations, it's it's certainly something Well, both of us keep coming back to. So it's wonderful to discuss again, and today we will explore change the the science and art of change. And not just that we're discovering how to make these positive life changes with ease. And before we go there, tell me about the change that your podcasts have just had. So we'll be speaking about change. And you've just had a big change in your podcast after a very long time many years. So yeah. So

Paul Levitin  3:24  
I mean, the concept of change is just something I've been thinking a lot about lately. And I've been doing my podcast now for three going on for years. Actually, today when we're recording this. I just released episode number 300 of my podcast, which is a thank you is a big a big milestone. And when I started the podcast, this I was still a personal trainer, I was still doing nutrition coaching. And it was about health and wellness. Also mindset. So the original name was happy, healthy human, because it was just about general things to help make you happier and healthier, which I still love. Something that I still stand behind. I mean, who wouldn't want to be a happier, healthier human, something that I want for everyone. So I want it for myself, I want it for anyone listening. But as I kept going through the podcast, which I do both interviews, and I do solo episodes, the concept of what I was talking about the most if I really dig dug down, just came back to change was It was not what is the best exercise to do or what should you be eating? Or how long should you be meditating for? The question that I kept coming back to is like, how do I help people do that when they aren't? Right? Someone who isn't exercising wants to start someone who says they want to eat healthy, but they keep falling off someone who has read all the books and understands how powerful meditation is, but can't get themselves to actually do the thing. And that goes a layer deeper than whatever the actual habit is that you're trying to do. And it's about the literal essence of change. How do you get yourself to You change what you're doing on a day to day basis, both mentally in your mindset, but then also in your habits and your routines and your actions and your beliefs. So everything just centred around change. And when I started to think about the message that I wanted to put out, I realised that it doesn't have to be about, again, the specifics of a certain type of exercise or the specifics of anything. It's the broader notion of how can we take change, because everything that we want in life comes after a change, right, there's just by definition, if you want something, that means you don't have it. And if you don't have it, that means something about what you're doing has to change in order for you to get it. So again, it can be relationships, it can be money, it can be business, it can be fitness, it can be health, everything is either you're doing what you already need to do, in which case, you're good, or you're not, in which case you need to change. So it's like, that's the big topic that I want to talk about. And so I shifted my podcast to be more focused on change. And then, as you said, the title is change made easy. Because what I've realised is, we all know the change that we need to do. Everyone says like, well, I know I shouldn't be doing this, or I know that if I just read this book and do exactly what they say, I'll get the result. But we don't do it. And that's because change by definition is hard. So when I think about how can I best help people? It's about one, helping them understand the science and the realities and the art of change. And then how do we make it easier so that we can actually do it? And do it consistently? Because, you know, we spoke about this a little bit before the show started recording consistency is the name of the game, you do anything long enough, the results will come. So my, the way I look at things is like it's not about what do you do? It's about how do you make it easier. So you want to do it for long enough so you can get the actual result. And if you can do that, everything else just kind of falls into place?

Agi Keramidas  6:51  
That's a great answer you just gave me and let's dive deeper straight away with what you said one thing that you said about me? Actually, I think you use the exactly the phrase that changed his heart. I think that was exactly how you said so can you tell me why do you why is it saying so hard? Even though we realise that all we need to do is to make that change, you know, to start exercising or to, to quit smoking? Or to go to the gym or whatever? We know it. But it's hard. Why is it hard?

Paul Levitin  7:29  
So what it all boils down to is that thinking is easier than acting. Right? One of my people who listened to my podcast, no, my biggest pet peeve is people say, well, like easier said than done. It's like everything is easier said than done. Because it's easier to talk than it is to act. It's very easy to talk about doing something, it is not very easy to do the thing. So whatever you want to do, again, like you said, is it quit smoking? Is it have a better relationship and talk to your spouse after a fight? Is it be an entrepreneur is it sending our tough email, whatever it is, the thought of doing the thing is theoretically easy. The action of doing the thing is hard. And when I say hard, I mean this or the level of physics. So everything in the universe comes down to energy, right? We exist with energy. So humans need energy to live, I need energy to be talking to you right now. I need energy to keep my heart beating, I need energy to keep my brain on that humans get energy in the form of calories that we eat from food. But all living things exist on energy. plants get energy from the sun, fire needs energy isn't even a living thing. But you need energy from the wood and that combust and create energy. So that universe exists and an energy exchange. So when I say hard, all I mean is that it's more energy expensive. So doing what you're already doing is energy cheap. The status quo, staying where you are, takes less energy than change. By definition, anything that you are going to change takes an extra output of energy that you are not already doing. If you're sitting on the couch, getting up off the couch takes more energy. If you're already doing something, changing that thing, by definition takes more energy. So it's not about like they're like, Oh, this is so hard or anything that that it's just physically, your body is made to conserve energy. Because all living things want to conserve energy because that is survival. And yet everything you want lies on the other side of change, which expends more energy. So that right there is the internal paradox that we're always struggling with, where it's like everything you want, takes energy and all your body wants to do is save energy so that it can survive. And so instantly, whatever you want to do is going to be hard just from that and then you add to the fact of like, you actually know have to know how to do it and you have to do the thing and it's still challenging and like a million other things cascade after that. But that is the point of the by very definition of creating change, it's going to be harder than doing what you're already doing.

Agi Keramidas  10:03  
Exactly. It's the inertia of something that that is moving in a specific direction or not moving at all, it takes much more energy to because you mentioned physics, and I liked very much this analogy of expanding energy. And it does make absolute sense. The question that really comes after that, is that, okay, so it doesn't need to expend the energy more energy to change. What will drive someone to use that extra energy? Because it might be the default not to spend it. But still, many of us do take the action, even though it requires a significant change in how we will distribute our energy, as you said, so is there a key factor? Do you think that will determine whether you will go ahead and spend the extra energy or return to the default of you know, however, things are?

Paul Levitin  11:06  
Yeah, I think there is right, so what perfect word inertia is the exact word right? It's the Newton's first law of motion, right? An object at rest will remain at rest unless acted on by a greater force. Right? And the power of inertia is what keeps us stuck. So what is that greater force that you're asking? Asking? So for one, it's like, we do have did so you think if that was the only thing was that, like the need to conserve energy, we would never do anything, we would just be sloths that just like did literally the bare minimum. And you see that some people do live that way. So we have inside of us humans and all animals do again, this is balanced by the need for striving, right? So that we have the need for survival, which is to conserve energy. But then we also have the need for striving, which has to do to do more to get more, especially in humans, we are a social creature, we have a social hierarchy. So we do have the drive, to want to succeed and to raise our status and to get money. And to you know, this is obviously this is talking about hundreds of 1000s of years of evolution that now expresses itself through to having more social media followers, or just being better looking and having a fit body or having a spouse, all of these things are ways that we have learned to express ourselves and raise our status. Because that also doesn't does equate to more survival because we are, we are, we are a creatures that again, like exist in in a pack, right? We're pack creatures. So everything comes back to survival. Now, so you see those two things are kind of countered to each other, right, like one is expending more energy. But in a roundabout way, it is to make us more likely to survive, right? Meaning I can go out, right, everything I think about cavemen, right, it's like, inside of the cave is safe. There's fire inside of the cave, I'm safe inside of the cave, outside of the cave is dangerous. Outside of the cave, there's tigers, there's lions, there's snakes, anything can happen outside of the cave. But if I stay in the cave forever, I will starve to death because I need to eat. So you have to balance those two things, there is a level of we will seek seek danger or put take ourselves out of that comfort in order to better our own our own status and our well being. But now we're the difference maker is and this is what my whole thing is like, where are you it's a spectrum. And where you fall on that spectrum, very much has to do with genetics and the way you were raised. So a lot of people are out there, like these are the David Goggins and these people who are just like, you just got to get up, you just gotta go, you just got to be motivated, just like that person was just lucky enough to fall on that end of the motivation spectrum, where they are more motivated by the get up and go than they are by the sit down and stay. And then you see someone who is morbidly obese, someone who knows they're like, I need to exercise. I am dying from not exercising, but cannot get themselves up to go and exercise. So where's the disconnect there? Well, is that they don't have that same genetic predisposition to want to go and strive. They are more on the side of the comfort, because, again, everyone has it in them, we just have it at different ratios, right? Like the people who are they talk about on social media, a billion people on Instagram, I think 10 million make content, right? Most people are on the side of consuming rather than creating. But if you see that, and you're comparing yourself to the other side, and you think that Oh, I must just be broken, or I must just not have the motivation or I must just not have the willpower. We set ourselves up to fail, because now it feels like I am less than I'm doing something wrong. When the reality is you're playing by a different set of rules. You're trying to play to the rules of someone whose genetic predisposition is different than yours. And that's setting you up for failure.

Agi Keramidas  14:59  
If you Enjoy this episode, can you think of one person that would find it useful and share it with them, I'd really appreciate it, it helps the show grow. And you will also be adding value to people you care about. Thank you. And now let's get back to the episode. Great. So let's talk then about these people in particular, Paul, because obviously with us, you mentioned someone that is very easily motivated or very disciplined to also because I think discipline also can lead to, you know, expand in the industry, because and I know from personal experience, how it can overcome things, but I think it's more important to others, this people that do not find it easy to use discipline or something external to overcome this inertia will use again, and because you use the word, genetics and predisposition, what other approach is there for these people to find the reason? I will use that word, to actually go ahead with the change the action?

Paul Levitin  16:18  
Yeah. 100%. So I think it's beyond finding the reason, right. This is exactly perfect example, right? People started like, oh, just find your why. If you have a deep why you have a deep seated reason, then that's how you show up. But that doesn't work. Right. Again, that that sounds good, but it falls apart once you just scrutinise it a little bit. Because I was a personal trainer for a long time. I had clients who would come in first conversation, okay, why? Why is this important to you? I'm a dad, I want to be there for my kids. Those people dropped off just like anyone else. I literally had a woman come to me, I remember this so vividly. I was right, it was my first couple of months or two as a personal trainer. And this woman came in for her first initial screening was like a free session. And she's like, I was like beach, I didn't even let me get to my spiel, I usually have like a little like sales pitch I would do. She was like, I just came from the doctor, the doctor says I need to lose 100 pounds, I'm morbidly obese, and I have diabetes. And if I don't change, I'm going to die. Literally, for Batum, I'm going to die. So I'm like, okay, like, like we do the workout. After the workout, I take her into the little office, I'm like, so here's the pricing, here's what the personal training costs, which do you want to buy? Just I didn't even do my sales pitch, because I just assumed that she was like, this is a little bit expensive. I think that I'm gonna have to think about it. Because like, you just told me, you are going to die. And you're telling me that you have other priorities for where you're going to spend your money. So like, she's like, Well, yeah, I have bills. I'm like, you cannot pay bills if you are dead. So once I learned that, I saw literally someone telling me that their y was staying alive, and they were still not going to do the thing. Again, I've had parents telling me that they want to do it for their kids, and they still fall off. It's like the Y is not enough. If it were Simon Sinek find your start with y would have solved everything. 10 years ago when that book came out. It's amazing book, but it doesn't solve all of the issues. Right? So like having the reason like these are these are all Pete right? Having grit, having discipline, having motivation, having a why like all of these buzzwords, and these things, they're great. And for a certain subsection of people, they will work for the people that they work for, they work great for and again, this is the this is the problem is that we look at these single things as if there were an answer, because we'll see we'll read the book. And they're like, well, people like this respond like this. And it's like, all right, but everyone is so different. We exist in such a vast spectrum. So what have I found to be the again, so if now if I look at for all the people who that will work for that have worked for them. So that's great, but how do we help the people that that won't work for, and to me, that's why my whole thing is changed, made easy, because all I can do is make it easier for them so that they have a better chance at winning, because human nature is going to be to avoid hard things. And again, not I don't mean this in the sense of like, again, oh, it's hard, like you just got to grin and bear it. It's just like your body, your brain will only allow you to do so many challenging things at once. We only have so much willpower, we have so much energy. And life is harder already. You're talking about, again, losing weight, or you're talking about starting a podcast or you're talking about having a hard conversation with your spouse at the end of the day, when you have a job that is you're not sure if you're gonna get fired from and you have kids who are dealing with X, Y and Z and your mom is sick and your sister just called you and and the government is going through an election and you know you as like there's so much stuff that life is already hard enough. So now we add a luxury, which anything that we're talking about change is a luxury because by definition, you are surviving right now without it. Right so even that woman who said I need to do this to live or I will die. It's like that's still a luxury because she's alive right now. So it's not killing her right in this moment. So that change is still a luxury for her. So anything that is going to get you to expend more energy more time, more money. that there is a luxury, you have to make it. So stupid easy, that all of the reasons against why you shouldn't do it, and why you won't do it, we can wipe those off the table.

Agi Keramidas  20:11  
That's great. I get that. So and it's very useful the way that you describe it to make it stupid easy to say. So let's really go into the nitty gritty of that. Tell me one or two strategies, maybe or something that one can use to make things easy in such a way? And I know it's a general question, but let's get something more, you know implementable?

Paul Levitin  20:39  
Yeah, for sure. I mean, and again, we have to have that because if not, then I'm just throwing out a bunch of things. And that's going to make it harder, like what Paul said, to make it easy. How do I do that? And that makes it harder. Right? So that defeats the whole purpose. So I literally created a framework that's literally called easier. It's an acronym easier EA si er, right? Because it's like, how can I make this as easy as possible, just follow this framework. And so when I give this framework to people, and I'll give it to anyone listening, I have it like as a checklist. And the way I use it, I implement this as a checklist when you're thinking about implementing new habits, new routines, new behaviours. You use this checklist to see like, is this something that I'm actually going to stick to? Because again, we said already, consistency is the name of the game. You can work out once it doesn't do anything for you, you can go to therapy, once it doesn't do anything for you to meditate. Once it doesn't do anything. It's about what can you do for the long term. So easier as a checklist you can go through to see is like, is this something that's worth committing to? Because the last thing I want is for people to start something, they're not able to be consistent, and then they fizzle out. Because then you get the worst of both worlds. You tried, you gave effort, you gave time, sometimes money, and you didn't get the result. And that creates a sense of learned helplessness and your brain and learned helplessness is when your brain goes, I'm not going to keep trying to do these things. Because every time I try, it doesn't work. So what is easier, I'll go through quickly, or we can do the whole thing. But the biggest one to me is e right. So E stands for enthusiasm. Are you enthusiastic about the change that you're going to make? Not just the result? This is the key here? It is not? Are you enthusiastic about losing 20 pounds? Everyone wants that? Are you enthusiastic about being a business owner? Who wouldn't want that? Are you enthusiastic about being a millionaire? Do I call these magic wand goals? Like if you could wave a magic wand and have it handed to you, you'd say yes, I'll accept that I will take being rich, I will take being skinny or fit or whatever it is. The question is, are you enthusiastic about the action steps that you have to take to get there? So it is not? Are you enthusiastic about having a podcast that just reached 300 episodes like Yeah, cool. People are high fiving me like love that. Are you enthusiastic about the annoying things about recording the podcast editing the audio, having no clue what you're doing? Learning all the things and, but for me, I was because I love podcasting. And I love speaking clearly. I'm on a rant right now. You know, I love speaking I love podcasting. I love talking to people like you. So even though I had to do things that were uncomfortable and annoying and hard, it was worth it because I was enthusiastic. Right? So that's the first part. A write easier, right? A is available. Right? So what are you using? What's available to you? Right? So a lot of times, that's what resources do you have? Time? Money, energy attention? Are you asking for more from yourself than you can then you have available to give? Right? So people are like, well, I need to go to the gym two hours a day. It's like, Well, do you have two hours a day to give to the gym? No. Well, then you're setting yourself up for failure before you're even starting. S stands for straightforward, right? Can you tell me in simple, straightforward words, how to get from A to B, from B to C, from C to all the way to Z? Can you can you actively explain what this process looks like? Because, again, complexity is the killer of dreams. And if it's too complex, that gives your brain a reason to go. I don't understand this a mountain, right every. Again, I always go back to the using the gym as an analogy just because I was a personal trainer for a long time. And I think everyone has had this experience of going to the gym. I used to call this the deer in the headlights look, I could tell people who wouldn't who had no clue what they were doing. Because they would walk into the gym, they would look around and they look like a deer in the headlights and I would wash them and sometimes they would just turn around they would walk around for a little while and they would leave without ever having done anything. Because it was too much going on. There were too many machines. There was too many noises it was clanging it was banging. They had no understanding what they were doing. So you know and to combat that you have to make it so again so stupid simple, so straightforward. That if you take away the options of not doing it. So i e a s AI is imperfect. So perfection is an unobtainable ideal. We know that perfection doesn't exist, right? People will talk about this all the time. You cannot To be perfect, but you have to not only accept that, but embrace if perfection is impossible, that means you have to be okay with taking imperfect action. Right? Imperfect Action means you have to embrace the failures. Every failure is an understanding of like, okay, this isn't a flaw in the system. This is a part of the system. I was supposed to be here, because perfection is impossible. Imperfection just means that I'm trying. I'm iterating. Right when I record a podcast, and I go and listen back to it, and I was like, Oh, I was recording through the wrong microphone. The whole time. i This just happened to me. I have this big, bulky, super high tech mic, and I had it set to record do my iPhone mic. So it sounds like I was recording through a bag of sand. And it's like, oh, well, that sucks. You know, but that's fine, because that's imperfect action. I keep moving forward. The second E is for exponential. Exponential, is how many? How much do I get out of what I'm putting in? Because this is where I am. This is where I think a lot of people mess up. They do one for one trades, right? They think Win win, right? It's like, oh, it's Win win, you go to the gym, you, you lose weight, and you feel better, right? The gym is like therapy, that's a win win. Again, if Win win was enough, you would already be doing it. Win Win is not enough. You need win, win, win, win, win, win win. So for me, an example is riding my bike. When I was living in New York City, I started riding my bike to work instead of driving. So it was actually faster for me to ride my bike than it was to drive because I didn't have to deal with New York city traffic. So that's a win. I was also then getting exercise. So if I rode my bike to and from work that was 30 minutes in each direction, that's another one. I also didn't have to deal with parking, which cost me like $10 a day. That's another one. I was also getting sun on my skin, which I wasn't doing when I was working in a gym because I was indoors indoors all day. That's another when I was also listening to podcasts, which was helping me in my craft, because that was now I was having a little bit more time to listen to podcasts. That's another one. I also didn't have to do cardio at the gym now because I was already getting an hour of cardio in inside and outside of the gym. So in the same time that I normally would have driven to the gym. Now I'm getting my cardio and saving time on my workout. That's Win Win, win, win win win win. That's an exponential return one input, which is just riding my bike, and I'm getting so much backward. That's a habit that I'm not going to want to stop. And still to this day, I ride my bike almost everywhere, because to me, it just makes it's like how could I not? Why would I ever like it like it just doesn't make any sense. So I need to look for inputs that get me outsized returns, that you're not only going to sit and trade one for one for so long. But if you can get one for 10 For one, 100 For one, that's a trade that you will keep doing. So that's the type of stuff I'm looking for. And the last thing R stands for repeatable. Again, we started this off consistency is the name of the game. Repeatable means Can you do it not long enough to get the result? Can you do it forever, right, going back to the diet, they right so many people started, like I'm going to diet down for the summer, when you tell me that what I hear is I'm going to diet for a certain amount of time, and then I'm going to stop. And when I stopped doing the diet that got me the results, even if I do get the results, I'm gonna go back to doing what I was doing before. And when I go back to doing what I was doing before, I'm gonna go back to what I had before. So when I start with a new client, when we're talking about mindset, when we're talking about any type of changes that we're trying to make, and I asked him, can you do this forever. Because if you can't do it forever, there's no point to start. And if you don't want to do it forever, then you started wrong from the beginning, which was you didn't start with enthusiasm. Because if you started with enthusiasm, it should feel good to do it forever, you should be fired up about doing it forever. And that's a habit that will keep going forever, you'll get compound interest, because you'll get better at it as you go. And it's doesn't feel like this monumental change doesn't feel like something you're fighting back against. It feels like you're swimming with the flow of the of the universe of energy, rather than trying to swim upstream.

Agi Keramidas  28:56  
It's a great framework. And thank you for explaining it's so detailed, and yet at the same time very succinctly. So thank you there is actually wanted to ask you since the moment you mentioned it, and then you refer back to it right at the very end. That was their enthusiasm, and you said enthusiasm, not about the outcome that you will have as a result of the change. But for the process of the end the action of the change. And that is obviously a mindset thing, you know, because you might have the enthusiasm already and that's great. You're already way advanced in a way to do it. But if you don't have the enthusiasm about the change, how would you approach the mindset shift that needs to happen? Because you know, and socialism you can't really create it. It has to come from within. We can show we'll have to look At the tangent A different way in order to allow that to determine the enthusiasm to come through. Yeah,

Paul Levitin  30:09  
so one again, be enthusiastic. If I had to even make it even more succinct, the whole thing would be enthusiastic. I mean, if you if you this is a framework that I start to live live my life through? Am I enthusiastic about it or not? Because that tells you everything you need to know. If I'm enthusiastic about it, it feels good. I'll keep doing it. If I'm not enthusiastic about it, it doesn't feel good. I won't keep doing it. So to your question of like, what do I do if we're not enthusiastic? I would challenge you the listener, whoever to think, why are you doing it then? Right, because and the next question is like, well, I have to write I have to do it. So some things that I'm not enthusiastic about, but I challenge that as well. Because what do you really have to do in life? breathe, eat, and that's only assuming that you want to continue living? Right? So you have to you have to say that, like, everything that you think you have to do is is captioned by something that because you're trying to do something else, right? Like, I have to go to work? Well, no, you don't? Well, I have to go to work because I want to continue to put groceries on the table for my family. Okay, like, so. But now, can I find a way to do that, that I'm more enthusiastic about? Right? I have to exercise right? People say exercising is is so healthy. My doctor told me I have to exercise. Okay, again, like no, you have to exercise if you want to live longer. Are you enthusiastic about living longer? Yes, I am. Okay, well, let's break it down. What you are thinking about exercise is probably a very narrow view of what exercise could be. Because when most people think about exercise, they think about a gym, they think about a treadmill, they think about lifting weights. I mean, I could see how you wouldn't want to do those things. What about Zumba? What about pickleball? What about kayaking? What about hiking? What about yoga? What about dancing while you do the dishes? What about carrying your kid on your shoulders and going for a walk around Disneyland? What about a million other things that can be exercise, same thing with a job? Well, I have to go to work to make my paycheck. It's like, I don't know. I mean, there's lots of jobs out there, there's you can go online right now and find a different job, you can become an entrepreneur, you can reduce your cost of living so that you don't have such high expenses, so that you don't have to do so much with your job, there's always other options. And when we can find the one that we care about that actually we are enthusiastic about that is automatically the direction that we will go, right. So you can you can use this as literally the guiding light. Because again, like you know, when you feel it you're like, and a lot of this comes down to we have to break out of the paradigm of being like what I have to do, and realise that like, Yes, I understand there are realities, right? If you're a parent, you have to provide for your kids. That's fine. But then there is a way like there is a lesser of evils, right like that, like at that point, you can still find the thing that you're most enthusiastic about. Out of all the things I you might say like, well, I want to be an entrepreneur, but I have to have a consistent paycheck. So alright, well, there's a lot of options of what that can look like for you. Right. So it's like we paint ourselves into a corner, because we think that there's a way that things quote unquote, have to be. But the first thing we have to understand is that nothing has to be anyway, everything is a decision. And everything is a choice that you have made, you are where you are because of decisions that you've made throughout your entire life. And that means where you get in the future will be a accumulation and accumulation of the decisions that you're making from this point on. So everything can change, as long as you are an active decider in that process.

Agi Keramidas  33:32  
That's great. I liked the differentiation between the heft to the change and the enthusiasm that comes and you know, what was coming to my mind while you're describing this was that if you're not enthusiastic about the saints itself, then find the change that you are enthusiastic about because it will make such a big it's does make the trains easy when you're enthusiastic about it. You have you know, it's the wind behind your back it is you don't have to, as you said it's like swimming on along with with the flow there are these invisible forces if you want that really push through. So thank you. That was a wonderful, answered and yeah, the enthusiasm and it's certainly the key and that will hold that as a key here from all the the very detailed and useful things that you shared. Paul. I think we are we have certainly and I hope we have inspired the positive change to someone listening that wants to do the next step. So I will ask you since the this the end During the conversation, there are two things. First of all, before I asked you those things, please, where will the listeners of this podcast find you about sugar? They can continue their journey with you. Yeah,

Paul Levitin  35:16  
we love that. I mean, this is the type of stuff I love to talk about, again, the podcast is change made easy. How do you make the habits, the behaviours, the routines that you want to make easy. So come listen there. And I will offer to anyone listening, I do have that easier framework as a checklist that you can print out or keep on your computer or your phone so that you can run your decision making process through that when you're thinking about adopting a new habit, a new routine a new behaviour. So I'll give Agi a link to that so people can download that for free.

Agi Keramidas  35:48  
That's great. Paula, I want to thank you very much for this really intriguing conversation. And I want to wish you all the very best with your noble mission of making things easy for for others. And of course, because it is very recent with your your new branded podcast, so I'm wishing you all the very best with that. And I will leave it to you with some actionable parting wisdom.

Paul Levitin  36:22  
Yeah, well, that, again, big on action steps, right. And all of this is just theory and it's just jibber jabber if we're not actually taking action. So two things one is I want to preemptively get out ahead of what I know people are going to say, because when they hear this, they're gonna go again, like, but what about the things that I have to do. And I want to make a distinction between short term and long term goals. Because for short term goals, sometimes you can get by with just pure willpower pure motivation, pure discipline, right, it's like I have to turn in this project, by the end of the month, I have a wedding coming up. So I have to lose 20 pounds, I have to whatever it is, it's like there's a deadline on it. And it's short term. And that's the type of thing you can grit your teeth and bear through you can white knuckle your way through, anyone can do anything for six weeks or six months even. But the things that we're talking about, here are the big questions of life, health, wealth, happiness, these things do not end, you don't get to say, okay, I'm good. Like, I, my personal development is good, my body is good enough, like I'm 40 now and I get to lock it in and like just coast until I'm 80. That's not how this works. So if it's a short term thing, and you want to just I mean, I would still say approach it through a lens of enthusiasm, you will probably enjoy the process more, but you don't have to. But when it's a long term goal, the only way that you can do it is is this way. And the people who push back against that will always say like, well, I know someone who achieved a lot from just like just sheer willpower, like they just they just did it and like, and then what, right just to zoom out a little bit and say and then what, oh, then they gain the weight back, oh, then they stopped doing that thing, right? Everyone has a story of starting a business losing losing a bunch of weight, meditating, doing a thing, and then they stopped doing it. So all of this stuff that I'm trying to do is like, I don't want you to create a change that you cannot keep up. I am not here to help someone, again, do something for six weeks or six months, and then go back to the life they were living. Again, I said before, if a change is worth making, it's worth making forever. And if you take nothing else away from this, it's live with enthusiasm and find the things where you can be enthusiastic about both the end goal, but more specifically about the day to day activities that will get you there because that will make you know you're going to be enthusiastic about the thing that you get it but you're also going to enjoy the process as you're on your way. And if you enjoy the process that in turn makes you more likely to keep coming back. Right How much easier is it to do the thing if you like doing the thing in the first place. So whatever your thing is, again, it doesn't matter if we're talking business relationships if we're talking fitness if we're talking health look for a different way to see it again if you're if you're like the thing that I've been wanting, I'm just not enthusiastic about my action step would be I challenge you to find a different way to that same result that you can enjoy the the root there more than the one way that you think that you quote unquote have to do it because I guarantee you there's another way that you can get there. That doesn't feel so yucky.

Agi Keramidas  39:35  
I hope you found the conversation insightful and you have a good idea of the action you will take as a result. Paul also interviewed me on his saints Made Easy podcast and in the next episode out on Thursday, I will be sharing that conversation with you a very different one to the one that you've heard. Just listen to also be sure to check out Paul's Change made easy podcast for some incredible insights until next time stand out don't fit in!