How can integrating plant medicine, meditation, and ancient wisdom transform your emotional well-being and liberate you from the grip of trauma and negative emotional patterns?
Listen in as emotions therapist and plant medicine facilitator Becca Williams joins us to share her transformative journey from a journalist to a healer. Drawing from her personal battles with childhood trauma, Becca reveals how she developed a therapeutic approach that marries Western neuroscience with the ancient wisdom of yogic science and the subtle power of psilocybin microdosing. Her compelling story highlights the potential for emotional liberation and the pivotal role of plant medicine in rewriting deeply ingrained emotional patterns, paving the way for a life filled with greater fulfillment.
In our conversation, we unravel the intricacies of our emotions, often misunderstood as mere reactions, yet they are in fact a sophisticated inner guidance system. Becca enlightens us on the seven challenging emotions - fear, anxiety, anger, depression, sadness, desire, guilt, and shame - and their significance in our personal growth. Through her insights, we discover how embracing Kundalini meditation, breath work, and mindful movement can serve as powerful tools to constructively navigate these emotions, allowing us to channel their energy towards healing and personal development.
Our dialogue concludes with a touching note on the concept of 'do-overs,' a practice Becca holds dear for improving interpersonal relationships. She illustrates the transformative power of revisiting and reworking negative interactions, which not only fosters understanding and respect but also deepens connections. Join us for this enlightening discussion that promises to change the way you perceive your emotions and their role in your journey to wholeness.
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02:02 - Emotional Liberation Through Plant Medicine
09:06 - Finding Hope in Personal Growth
10:13 - Navigating Emotions as Inner Guidance
20:21 - Struggles With Meditation in Busy World
27:16 - Exploring Emotional Liberation Therapy With Psychedelics
31:30 - Exploring Cannabis and Psilocybin as Medicine
37:28 - The Power of Do-Overs
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"Honey, it's gonna be alright. You're gonna be in a good place - just hang in there."
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Becca's website: https://beccawilliams.org/
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I am Agi Keramidas, a podcaster, knowledge broker, and mentor. My mission is to inspire you to take action towards a purposeful and fulfilling life.
Get a free copy of my book "88 Actionable Insights For Life":
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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
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Please note that while an effort is made to provide an accurate transcription, errors and omissions may be present. No part of this transcription can be referenced or reproduced without permission.
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Becca Williams 0:00
The mind needs a seat at the table, but the mind should not be at the head of the table. The our intuition, our heart should be at the head of the table. That intuition that deep inner knowing from which all answers can come.
Agi Keramidas 0:22
You are listening to personal development mastery, the podcast that empowers you with the simple and consistent actions to take that will help you create a life of purpose and fulfilment. I'm your host Agi Keramidas and this is episode 396. If you want to discover how to use your emotions as an inner guidance system, then this episode is for you. By listening today, you will see how integrating meditation with plant medicine can transform your emotional well being. And you will also understand the way to rewrite your emotional narrative and release trauma. It's all about deep emotional healing using powerful ancient allies. Before we dive in, if you enjoy listening and appreciate what we're doing here, the simple quick favour I'm asking of you is to click the subscribe button. Now let's get started.
Agi Keramidas 1:27
Today, it is my pleasure to speak with Becca Williams, Becca, you are an experienced emotions therapist and plant medicine facilitator with expertise in emotional and trauma recovery. Through your innovative emotional liberation therapy, you blend ancient healing modalities with Western neuroscience and psilocybin micro dosing in order to guide individuals on transformative journeys of self discovery and trauma recovery. Becca, welcome to the show. It's such a pleasure to speak with you today.
Becca Williams 2:02
Thank you, it's so nice to be with you. Also.
Agi Keramidas 2:06
Becca, today, I'm looking forward to exploring with you first of all, there are emotions, and you talk about the inner guidance system of emotions. So that's a topic that I really want to explore with you, but also how plant medicine and in particular, psilocybin and micro dosing of psilocybin can assist with, as you call it, emotional liberation. So before we go there, I would like to hear a little bit about your, the sift in your life and your career, you know, I know that you used to be a journalist doing radio, and you turned into healing and we're very different line of work. So tell me a bit about that shift.
Becca Williams 2:55
So let's see, I'm going to try to give you the abridged version, but I came into this life with a difficult childhood. And, and it was volatile, it was dangerous. And I had a parent who was mentally ill who, who met medicated with alcohol, and, and was angry and abusive. So that's what I was raised in I was I was I was in that pressure eyes space for all all my childhood. And so coming out of it, there was a lot of trauma associated with that, of course, you know, when we're young and you know, we're 1617 and we know that we feel yucky, but we can't really connect the dots. And, and actually beyond that as a, as a young adult and into adulthood. I searched, I looked under a lot of rocks to feel better, you know, from, from, from from, you know, the western approach, which is talk therapy, and to spirituality and, and meditation. But all of those things did not work for me. And you know, there was this draw it was it just it hurts because of the anxiety and being you know, going out or interacting or whatever, but at the same time, okay, it was such a strange thing that growing up I was in. I was rejected. I mean, I was I was neglected. I was abandoned. I was the message for me growing up was that I was inconsequential and unworthy. And so it was beaten into me, right. And, and so I I need it. And so for me growing up, I needed as much attention as possible. You know, as human beings we're looking to avoid rejection and seek approval. And so this is what I was doing. And and so I found I found, I found, I was a writer. In school, I studied journalism. And in college, I studied journalism. And I found television, I found television news. So even though I loved to write, I found that when I was on television, right, that I got attention. Oh, Becca, you know, you're so smart. You're so you look so good. You're right so well is because I had no internal resources. So I even though I loved being a journalist, so we have to look at this right, as far as our professions are concerned that there's always a part that we're attracted to. But what's the other piece? What is the underlying piece, and for me, it was getting that attention. So I really struggled for decades, getting that attention. And I was, you know, in therapy, and, and so about 10 years ago, this work called Emotional liberation found me. And it was about feeling into how I was feeling and why I was feeling it, and what do I need to do about it, and there was neuroscience involved, but it really leans and leans heavily on yogic science, and the Kundalini tradition, which is a very active expressive form of, of meditation, I, you know, I call it the unmet imitation meditation, essentially. And what it does just goes in and then stirs up these emotions that are tethered to the trauma. This is what we learn in yogic science. Yeah. And, and we're able to stir that up, so that we're able to process it and release it. And when I started doing this in 2014, I went into it with the creator and developer of the work. Who has been a longtime mentor for me, now, among many, many other important mentors. But I studied with him for four or five years, and I was certified as one of his first students, because it's so new, he wrote the book called senses of the soul and 2020 13. And then I engaged with since 2014. And and once I, I was able to heal myself from these, these, these emotions that I was a slave to because you know, something would come out of left field. Somebody would say something, somebody would do something or an errant thought, and I was off to the races. And I did not want to live like that anymore. As people who do live like that. No, I don't want to live like that anymore. So once the started, what can I say? evaporating? I saw live through a whole new set of eyes on the I was re I was reset, I was I was reset. And coming out of this. I was producing a television show at the time. I said, Oh my gosh, you know, I'm looking around. And I'm seeing these burning bodies of people who are in, you know, who are wrestling with trauma, and it's like, Oh, my God, I have something that can help these people. And so I really did. I said, I don't want to do that anymore. I want to do this. So I have I have carved out a practice over the last 10 years in doing this work.
Agi Keramidas 8:26
I highlighted the word reset that you said towards the end, but also the I will before I move on, there is one question that comes to mind. You said at some point that you had tried all sorts of different things and they will not working for you. And my quick question is what would you say to someone listening right now that finds themselves in that spot is that they have tried all sorts of things, as far as they are aware. But still they don't feel they have made much progress in terms of, you know, releasing any burden or whatever it is that troubles them. In the subconscious. What would you tell them?
Becca Williams 9:08
Well, I can tell them that there's hope that you don't have to feel this way. And I would certainly mirror to them what I went through and you know, that old line about the teacher appears when we're ready. I probably massacred that quote, but you you get the gist. We get the gist here. And and for people who come who who connect with me. I think the timing is right. I tend to think that from you, the hundreds of people that I have worked with over the years. There seems to be a through line in that people are in awareness, they are on an awakening path. Now you could argue philosophically that we're all on a continuum. And of moving toward wholeness, but I like to say that, yes, we're on the continuum. But at some point, we realise that we're on that path, and we're on the continuum. And before that, it's just really very unconscious. And, you know, most of the people in the world are in that unconscious space. But those people who are starting to wake up and go, there has to be something better. And they seek and there's a reason why we call people seekers is because they're seeking ways to be out of their suffering. That's why we seek, and whether we go into a retreat and feel better for, you know, New Age has been has been a, what do I want to say, a bumpy road to go down. Because essentially, at the core of new age, it's, it's don't feel that way. Don't, don't feel those bad feelings, feel the light, feel that happiness be happy. But the you know, the, the dirty not. So a secret is, is that if we push those feelings down, they're going to come up when we least expect it. And, and so what we're doing is changing it around when we learn what we're feeling and how we're feeling it, we can identify, we can be aware, we can be in it and and move it through as we do it. Now, of course, the more we do this, the better we get at it. So there's hope. Yes. And I would say to those people to to check out what I have to offer here.
Agi Keramidas 11:47
Great. So let's move on to the emotions, which is, you know, we've already you explained a few things about it, but you talk about emotions as your inner guidance system. So tell me, what do these emotions come from? First of all, how can we look at them or use them as a guidance system? So tell me a bit more about this? Sure.
Becca Williams 12:18
So emotions are energy in motion, everything is energy, everything, and we our energy and our emotions, our energy. It comes emotion comes from a French that actually reaches back into Latin. And I'm forgetting exactly what that Latin term was. But it meant, you know, Unst stability, agitated instability, agitation, with relation to those emotions. So to be able to identify them, is very important. And there is a trend out there today, where there's sort of a beginning to understand, oh, you need to be with your emotions. And it's sort of this generic kind of delivery. And so the work we need to do is so often people do not know what they're feeling. And so we have a palette of seven difficult emotions there's in there's families within the seven. So for instance, one of the biggest, of course, is is fear and anxiety. So fear and anxiety is a family nervousness is a form of fear. You know, then there's fear, there's anxiety, panic, terror, that is all a family of fear. And so we want to understand that, that when we're in terror, we are we are very fearful of something. And when we have a panic attack, we are scared. the bejesus has been scared out of us because we fear something. And so many of us have been stuffing this for years, that we don't know what we're what we're afraid of. And a lot of the stuff that we're afraid of is old stuff that we can let go. But but but we don't know that. We don't know that until we go in. So this pellet of difficult emotions is so it's fear and anxiety. We have anger and depression, sadness. Desire is an interesting one. And desire is because we don't think of it in terms of an emotion. But desire is a very important emotion. In fact, it's the mother of all emotions, because we have to have a desire for something in order to do it. So for instance, gee, I want to pick up this pen and write with it that's a desire. I want to have a loving reciprocal, respectful relationship is a desire but We don't know and have been never taught how to get that. So desire is about neediness. And there's, you know, that's when we're needy that just feels really yucky. And we strike out it. Is this what I need? Is this what I need? What about this? And and we don't know. So we need to back up and be very focused on what we desire. And the last two is guilt. And the last one, but a very important one is shame. And so shame is, you know, everything underneath that it's rejection, it's a sense of unworthiness. It's a feeling of not belonging, however you want to put it, you know, a lot of people don't want to say I suffer from shame, because shame, it's such a shame, right? So we kind of danced around it. But that whole, that whole category is really shame.
Agi Keramidas 15:56
If you enjoy this episode, can you think of one person that would find it useful and share it with them, I'd really appreciate it, it helps the show grow. And you will also be adding value to people you care about. Thank you. And now let's get back to the episode. Thank you for this explanation of those seven different difficulties, you said, emotions. And focusing on this particular the difficult emotions rather than the let's say the poor positive or the the other one. How can one use this when you when you say in your guidance system, that obviously for me, it implies that that emotion when it appears, it guides you towards something Provided, of course that you become aware of it, as you were saying earlier and become constitution you're not working your day distracting yourself. So let's say that one is. And I would like to think that someone listening to this conversation, he or she is aware that they are maybe not all the time but often aware of the emotional state that they get into? How can this be used as a guidance system show how, talk to me more about the guidance system in particular.
Becca Williams 17:23
So this is where the meditation comes in, which in kundalini is a combination of meditation breathwork and movement that we use, we have about 60 different practices that we use, that correspond to the various emotions. It's just it's a brilliant system. It's a it's a brilliant system hailing from all these Yogi's, you know, sitting in caves, coming you know, meditating for all of this, you know, for hours a day, and then handed handed down and handed down. See, where was I going with that I lost my train of thought. Let's see. Where was that? Where was I Auggie?
Agi Keramidas 18:04
You were about to explain about the new guidance system. Yeah, it was so it thank you.
Becca Williams 18:10
So importantly, what happens is, is the mind the mind needs a seat at the table, but the mind should not be at the head of the table. The our intuition our our heart should be at the head of the table. That intuition that deep inner knowing from which all answers can come. But the mind you know, we have been that's that's why talk therapy is not particularly effective. Because I remember for the years that I was in talk therapy, I'd be driving, you know, to the therapist and thinking what am I going to talk about today, and and you cannot heal from up here you have to heal by dropping in and being in touch here. And the beautiful thing that the developer and creator of emotional liberation gave us and that is His name is GM Khalsa, is the understanding and we are like in the stone age's. As far as emotions are concerned. It's amazing. I think it kind of got lost in that divergence of, of religion and science, you know, somewhere it got lost there. But when we are when we can go inward and be in in touch with with these emotions, it's it's a bridge to our soul. So think of it in this term, these terms, that the difficult emotions that are coming up, are asking us to be in touch with our soul. And so how do we do that? We need to go quiet, but like so many of us and it's you know the bigs all over right meditate, meditate, meditate. Well, I gotta tell you, I, I did a Buddhist meditation Cabela meditation, kind of freelance meditation. And I just couldn't I had this pounding thoughts. And then of course, the answer is, well, you just have to sit and sit long enough where the pounding thoughts quiet down. That never happened to me. I mean, I did you know, retreats, I did, I did a silent retreats, I did weekend retreats, where, you know, you're just sitting on the cushion and breathing, and it never helped me. But what because and I think that a lot of it has to do with this busy distracting world out there. And so we're running, running, running, and then it's like, okay, you need to meditate, sit down, put your butt on the pillow and shut up and go inward. And that's really hard for a lot of people. In our culture, it was very difficult for me. So when I encountered this work, what happens is that we first feed the mind about, about the emotions talking to our mind about the emotion, so they know that this is what we're going to be doing. And that so for instance, in my coursework, what I always do is where I lecture for one session, and we meet twice a week, and then the other session we practice, and, and so that the practice is where we go inward. And we do this work, where we're moving, where we're breathing. And the important piece is that we're here, you know, I talk you through I talk clients and students through this emotion, because if this if you're feeling crappy, you know, why would I? Why would I tell you, Okay, put that aside, we're going to be walking, close your eyes and breathe, and we're gonna be walking along the water and into the forest. And, you know, all I'm all I want to do with this terrible feeling, oh my God. And so what we do in emotional liberation has go towards the feeling, I invite people to go to their feeling, well, we're doing this work. And it's right, it is so ripe, whatever is, is knocking loudest on your head, bring it and we will, we will bring it up, we will process it and we will release it. And what happens is that the more that you do this, the better you get at it to a point of when you're out and about you're not on the cushion anymore, you're not doing this work anymore. Maybe my partner said something that I took in a bad way. There I've you know, who Wow, that didn't head didn't feel good. What was that all about? Wow. And then I process it, and I let it go. So of course that's you know, that's that's that's the practice way but I have I have clients who you know, after learning just the foundations of the course, they hit the you know, they hit the decks running with it.
Agi Keramidas 23:08
I was about to ask you this, because the way I understood it, so you said like the woods tear it up when it happens, bring it up then process it and release it and I suppose there is a technique to do that which you just answered now with your your last example. And I can also attest to what you were saying earlier about meditating when you're have a bout of anger or the last thing that you will do is sit down and meditate and because it is a completely against how you're feeling I tend to consume you if if that is
Becca Williams 23:51
I like that words. Yes, it tends to
Agi Keramidas 23:54
overwhelm is another word for maybe four different emotions he takes over anyway your even your rational thinking at times, especially with anger
Becca Williams 24:08
Yeah, we go back to that, you know, when that when the hurt was inflicted, you know, say let's say in our childhood, for instance, and we haven't processed it when my partner says something to me that that is reminiscent of what my mother used to say to me. I go back to being that six years six, six year old with my partner, because I haven't released that stuff yet. And the things and it's coming up now so that I have another opportunity to release it. What an intelligent, biological and spiritual being we are.
Agi Keramidas 24:49
We certain they are and in a way to save that we have been told all these other things about emotions and how they are and you were saying earlier about you know, go and be happy On a diversion, which is, that's how many of us are most of us have been used our programmes while we were
Becca Williams 25:10
in, it oftentimes started out when we were babies, or when we were children. Because if you don't have something, you know, if you don't have something to say, little boy or little girl that is happy or good, if you're going to complain, or you're going to cry, or whatever, I don't want to hear it, I do not want to hear. So. Consequently, you know, some of my most popular workshops are on anger, and most of the people who turn out for them are women. And what happens is that we have been, we have been told to be small to stay small. And that is that takes its toll. And a lot of this is the anger comes up, it's already hot emotion, like armour that comes up because there's a huge, deep hurt underneath that. And, and it's so much more painful to feel the hurt than the anger. And there's different ways of people getting angry, you know, there's, there's the outward, the nuclear option, and then there are those who go inward, and it might be complaining or grumbling or that sort of thing. So, so so so x, you know, extroverted passive. Yeah. So, we Yes. And so what we need to do is settle down the anger so that we can actually give the hurt. That comes up some time and attention.
Agi Keramidas 26:42
Thank you. That's so useful. And Becca, another element with this, your approach of emotional liberation therapy, from what I understand is psilocybin micro dosing. Can you first tell me what led you to to combine those two? Yeah,
Becca Williams 27:07
it's a great question. Auggie. So, way back in college, and I'm a woman of a certain age. So way back, when, when things were illegal. Somebody turned me on to, you know, smoking cannabis in college. And I found that it really settled the anxiety down. And I and so I started self medicating all the way through for decades with with cannabis, because it helped. The only issue with that, and I have a particular particular What do I want to say protocol when I work with people with cannabis, because I started out doing cannabis elevation service ceremonies in Denver, where of course, you know, cannabis is legal before the psilocybin. And what happened for me was that once I was no longer under the influence of the cannabis, then these emotions would come back. So it was palliative, but it wasn't enduring or permanent. And so, so fast forward to 2014, when I was introduced to emotional liberation, and this work, and it was an online programme with about 12 of us in it. I liked these, I liked the small groups. Also, I tried to keep them small, so that there's personalised attention, because it's, these are delicate matters that we're talking about, right? So I started doing just a little bit of cannabis with the practices. And and I let my teacher know. And he said, Well, you know, it's you do that, Becca, that's not my thing. I don't do exogenous I said, Well, you know, so what happened in this programme over the year and the second year, what is that it felt compared to the others that that my progress was accelerating, that I was able to move these things through faster. And that that feeling of it's very important that you don't get stoned that you need to that's why I always talk about a two to one CBD to THC or one to one because the CBD in research shows that it calms the fight or flight syndrome. And and so by virtue of that combination, it's great because then the THC comes in and amplifies the feeling that we're working with. And so it was a so so it was that's how I started out with people with with the cannabis and of course always in my courses always teaching people how to do it. And then about three years in I realised personally As in yogic science, you know, we have various bodies and including the ethereal body and the emotional body. And I heal, you won't hear this in hardcore Western science. But I believe we know now this is science, that trauma is lodged in our body and the tissues of our body and our nervous system. And of course, the question is, well, how do we get that out? Well, what I found is that I moved through all this stuff, and but the last thing, and I see this in a lot of people is shame. And I have this little bit of shame that can come up. And I believe it's just deep the layers, the layers, in my, in my body, and my energetic body is deep. And so I started working with a little bit of psilocybin and it went deeper. I'm I love cannabis, I love it as a as a medicine. I mean, you could say that all cannabis is medicine, even when somebody does it just for just for relaxation, or going out and watching the sunrise or whatever it is, that's all for wellbeing. You know. And so the this idea that we're going to pocket cannabis into medical and recreational or adult use, as we call it is absolute or spiritual. I mean, that's my, that's my bailiwick is spiritual use of cannabis. But the idea that it's not just one big, wonderful medicine, you know, whatever it takes to get it legalised, I digress. But anyway, I started doing the micro dosing, and I felt this, this very stubborn layer percolate up and was released, and it was no, wow. So I started offering it, it was, you know, I did, I worked during, through the through COVID. Of course, people love being online during COVID. And getting together and having community and I brought this up, and I help people microdose. And the results were nothing short of game changing. And so, you know, the beautiful part about emotional liberation, it is a contained system in a method in and of itself. People do it without any kind of exogenous substance. But when you add the plant medicine very judiciously. This just it just it accelerates the progress. And so that's why I included in my work.
Agi Keramidas 32:49
That's fascinating with the whole thing that you said first about the cannabis and then about psilocybin and how it accelerates this. This process, as you say into there was a phrase that I remember reading in your description, you refer to it as a psychic vitamins. Sure. I like that.
Becca Williams 33:14
Well, I'm trained as a clinical nutritionist. I'm a registered dietician. I do like supplementation, you know? Yeah. And so it makes sense. Great.
Agi Keramidas 33:28
Becca, this is a truly fascinating conversation. There is so many things there that we I believe we just started uncovering, but again, it is enough for someone listening to, to take the next step, whatever that is. And speaking of that, what would you direct? The listener who wants to find out more about you and what you do?
Becca Williams 33:54
I would just direct everybody to go to my website, which is so easy. It's my name.org so it's Becker williams.org I'm on all the social media but you know, anybody you ask anybody who's worked in the space of cannabis, social media for cannabis is really dicey. They they they cancel you they shadow ban you, they just bottleneck you. So I always I always invite people to go directly to my website because that's where it all is,
Agi Keramidas 34:30
then are still thank you there are still so many prejudices and misconceptions and things that come from you know, 100 years ago, they still are within us, but I believe there is more awareness and more enlightenment about the true nature of of all these things and even referring to cannabis as plant medicine as you did earlier, which of course it is. Even that changes completely the way someone receives it perceives it versus if you tell them it's a drug or a narcotic or whatever else. Anyway, regardless of that,
Becca Williams 35:09
the word that we're used to we tried to stay away use cannabis users, psilocybin users.
Agi Keramidas 35:18
In a way, we're now computer users because we're having this conversation.
Becca Williams 35:24
Yes. And I just I just want to say it Becca williams.org. You can find all my masterclass courses and, you know, from online courses to live courses to the higher end of retreats. I do, I do more and more retreats. My next one is for October 2024. That's the big one. And you can find all the information on the website as well.
Agi Keramidas 35:46
It's great. Because before we wrap up today, I have two questions, quick questions that I always ask my guests. And the first one is, what does personal development mean to you?
Becca Williams 36:01
Personal development means an enlarged awareness of what we're doing and how we're doing it. So it's more about being then doing. And once we are so sensitised to working with our emotions. We just surf the waves of uncertainty with grace and perseverance. And it's a beautiful place to be.
Agi Keramidas 36:31
And a hypothetical question, if you could go back in time and meet your 18 year old self, what's one piece of advice you would give her?
Becca Williams 36:41
Honey, it's going to be all right. You're going to be in a good place. Just hang in there.
Agi Keramidas 36:49
Back I want to thank you very much for this conversation. I really enjoyed it. And I think we we've covered a lot in success, what amount of time what I wish you all the very best with your with what you do both personally and professionally and all the other elements that you combine. I will leave it to you for your parting words. Ideally what I would like is some actionable parting wisdom for the listener.
Becca Williams 37:23
actionable parting wisdom. I think what you can do what anybody can do to introduce into their lives right here is something that I call do overs. So it makes you very aware of interactions, you can start with your partner, a very good friend, you both have to be on the same page and agreement. But if I snap it you Ari and Auggie excuse me, if I snap at you Auggie. You can either say, Becca that didn't feel good, I'd like to have a do over. Or if I snapped and realise the error of my ways I'd want to come back to and say, You know what, I'd like to have a do over on that. So, so So my partner and I do this a lot. And it really smooths out our relationship where if there if somebody is grumpy, or grouchy or short, right, one of us can and it builds on one another the other day, I found that he was grumpy and said something and then I said something right. And, and about 10 minutes later, I realised how I reacted. And I brought it up and said I wanted to do over. So he actually took his part where he was grouchy and redid that. And then I redid that, and it's it, it brings smiles sometimes it brings laughs and giggles but importantly it brings deeper respect between people. So
Agi Keramidas 38:53
that he does thank you so Martha will do over us as you said it is such an intriguing concept to do. I think maybe from what I how I imagined myself doing it now that silence possibly would be when you offer that you want to do a a do overs and the other person because of what has happened have gone into their own story in response so that's yeah, it's it is both people would have to agree to do that when one offers to the other to step out of the ego trips that they maybe have gone into and get present again. So
Becca Williams 39:41
it's it's a blanket policy between two people that you can do this anytime. It has to be that way.
Agi Keramidas 39:54
And before I end today's episode, if you enjoy this podcast can you think One person that would find it useful and share it with them. I'd really appreciate it. It helps the show grow and you also add value to people you care about. Thank you. And until next time, stand out don't fit in!